covid information

[badmotorscooter]

I don't think their point was Covid19 was no big deal. It seems that it is very similar to the influenza, and the death rate is very similar in spite of a misrepresentation of statistics counting fatalities out of confirmed cases. It should be calculated from the percentage of people tested positive applied to the total population of the area where the statistics come from, huge difference from what most people have been led to believe.

So the question remains, if the government (or the people) deems this so serious that there is a need for a radical lockdown, why not a similar action (reaction) for the influenza we see all the time?

 

[badmotorscooter]

I watched further in that video. The CA doctor compared Norway (lockdown) and Sweden (no lockdown) countries. His absolute numbers were all very accurate, as compared to the tracking sites, but he missed the "single most important" comparison. Norway has 37 deaths/million pop, while Sweden has 213/million, or 6 times the death rate. That's a pretty good case for at least some form of lockdown. See here.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

He keeps beating on how the absolute numbers of deaths are not in the millions, but we already know that. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that Fauci was lost in space.

Because it appears that he is using the percentage of the population actually infected per the testing results. Sweden did not lockdown like Norway, so the infection was obviously greater. No one expects to have a lockdown in the US for influenza, but if we did there would be less cases and less deaths. Since influenza is on par with Covid19 for death rates, why don't we lockdown for influenza? Why is it accepted as no big deal and Covid19 is huge?

 

[crofter]

This article talks about the deaths that were not counted due to lack of testing, no info for Cali but the NY figure is a 300% difference.  -crofter

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

Coverup? Other sources document the missing deaths in NYC during the period at about 5000 higher than reported, for probable covid 19 deaths. The 300% higher figure compares the NYC death rate during covid 19 with the historical death rate for NYC.   -crofter

 

[crofter]

....why don't we lockdown for influenza?  Why is it accepted as no big deal and Covid19 is huge?

There is historical evidence of past flu lockdowns during a pandemic, see article.
Covid is worse because it is more infectious and more deadly. If you look at the cells shown on almost every covid article, you can see the spikes that help covid to enter a healthy cell and infect it. After gaining entry, covid uses the healthy cell to reproduce itself. Then when the body sheds the excess covid cells, it finds  a new host human to infect.  Covid cells are particularly successful at invading cells in the respiratory tract and kidneys....


This article discusses historical results to lockdown and business as usual in the US, during a flu pandemic. Note the second wave when people went back to business as usual.  -crofter

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/...d-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus

 

[WanderingRose]

I don't think their point was Covid19 was no big deal. It seems that it is very similar to the influenza, and the death rate is very similar in spite of a misrepresentation of statistics counting fatalities out of confirmed cases. It should be calculated from the percentage of people tested positive applied to the total population of the area where the statistics come from, huge difference from what most people have been led to believe.

So the question remains, if the government (or the people) deems this so serious that there is a need for a radical lockdown, why not a similar action (reaction) for the influenza we see all the time?

I suggest you do some online reading about this particular virus, why it is so deadly and such a threat overall.

We’ve been dealing with this for a couple of months now, and there is a ton of information out there from highly respected and credible sources.

It is a puzzle to me, this late in the game, to see people liken this to influenza and question why measures taken are so extreme.

 

[crofter]

.... why not a similar action (reaction) for the influenza we see all the time?

Current medical science provides the population with access to widespread vaccination for protections to deadly flu strains. Current deadly strains including  Swine flu vaccine is included in the annual flu vaccine available to you at the pharmacy. 

Medical science cannot predict every mutation of virus strains, altho some did predict this pandemic.

Another historical article, this explains the trail of the 1918 flu from China to Europe, then back to the US with the returning troops from WWI. Also talks about the agricultural impacts we are surprised by. About a third of the world population was infected before it died out a year later.  -crofter

https://www.livescience.com/spanish-flu.html

 

[flying kurbmaster]

These guys are twisting it after the first example I checked out.

 

[Qxxx]

No one expects to have a lockdown in the US for influenza, 

So why is that? Take a flying guess. 

They've been dealing with the flu for 100 years, and every single year they get ahead of it to some extent by developing vaccines. Albeit, the vaccines have variable effectiveness.

But covid is too new and too unknown .... so in the total absence of vaccines and the total absence of even minimally effective medicines, you have two choices:
1. do nothing.
2. do something.

If yer lucky, maybe you can cut the death rates by 84%, like the Swedes.

In addition, we have antiviral medicines which work to some extent on the flu, but don't seem to be effective with covid.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/diagnosis-treatment/drc-20351725

 

[Qxxx]

These guys are twisting it after the first example I checked out.

DUH. These guys, who? First example, what?

 

[ByeBye]

People keep talking numbers when there's no way to know what is and what isn't.

You can believe CDC, John Hopkins or whomever you wish but this whole thing is too helter skelter to make definite statements.

I am not confident in the accuracy, at all.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

It is looking more and more that the virus must have started in the U S by the numbers that are coming in,likely spread to Europe first and made it’s way to China afterwards, why else would China have so few cases. They got on to it fast and furious but still it couldn’t have been very entrenched

 

[bullfrog]

I don't think we will have good numbers for some time but it is apparent that social distancing and the lock down work. You need not look further than the meat packing plants for a good example of what happens when just social distancing can not be practiced. Some of the areas in states that have low numbers can really get pounded by just one or two visitors that are carriers. Just look at what is happening on the reservations so lock downs have their place as well but in a country where freedom of movement is so valued and people are so used to going when and where they please we have to hope everyone acts reasonably which does not seem to work so well. With a death rate so high for a large percentage of our population it is easy for the few that are not in this group or ones that don't realize they are in this group to feel this is an over reaction. If you realize you have a good chance of dieing or doing irreversible damage to your health if you get a serious case of this you feel like enough is not being done. From the way things are going it looks like there will be a thinning of the herd, let us just hope the ones left are smart enough to learn from it.

 

[user 25174]

Good to hear, as I posted that a month ago. I need to take my van in, but not gotten there as I've not been driving it.

Did Jiffy Lube have all the proper filters and oil "in stock" already? Did they allow you to sit in your van during the op?

Yes they had the proper filter, and no they had me wait in their (very small) waiting room.
I mentioned the part about possibly being able to stay in my van.
They said for insurance reasons they don't allow it.
Keith

 

[Qxxx]

It is looking more and more that the virus must have started in the U S by the numbers that are coming in,likely spread to Europe first and made it’s way to China afterwards, why else would China have so few cases. They got on to it fast and furious but still it couldn’t have been very entrenched

OR ... since China has had the similar type SARS and MERS infections over the past few years, and even though they didn't really know what they were dealing with here, but they got right on it nonetheless. That being Jan 23. And whereas, the US putzed around for 2 months past that date, and by which time, the thing was already out of control.

 

[crofter]

It is looking more and more that the virus must have started in the U S ....

Op wants sources of information in links, not opinion. Do you have a link to post?  -crofter

 

[Qxxx]

.... They said for insurance reasons they don't allow it.

Too bad, I quoted what they had said on the jiffy lube website.

 

[Qxxx]

You need not look further than the meat packing plants for a good example of what happens when just social distancing can not be practiced. 
....
From the way things are going it looks like there will be a thinning of the herd, let us just hope the ones left are smart enough to learn from it.

Also, 777 sailors out of 4800 on the aircraft carrier got infected.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2020/04/23/roosevelt-coronavirus-epidemiology/?arc404=true

In regards the last bit, we all have a choice. We can: (a) carry on life as normal, out partying every night (at my age just a faded memory), or (b) we can try to avoid getting sick. I can only imagine what my share of the cost of a 1-2 week hospital stay in intensive care might be (woof). There are no guarandamntees in this life, but we always have a choice.

 

[Qxxx]

It sort of is... 2 days ago, a young woman (28)  died at the grocery store that I work. She called in sick one day, the next day she died. Probably had been carrying the virus for a while. Everyone is nervous, understandably.
This thing can mow you down pretty fast. Stay safe.

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]That's terrible Sofi, take double precautions. That's one of the huge problems with covid, the range of effect on different people is enormous. Some people don't get sick and don't even know they have it. In the worst case, like your fellow employee, you can go downhill so quickly. It's a total crap shoot where someone falls on the susceptiblity spectrum.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85783[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Some people who are very healthy die because their immune systems massively over react in what is called a Cytokine Storm.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome[/font]

 

[jacqueg]

Because it appears that he is using the percentage of the population actually infected per the testing results.  Sweden did not lockdown like Norway, so the infection was obviously greater.  No one expects to have a lockdown in the US for influenza, but if we did there would be less cases and less deaths.  Since influenza is on par with Covid19 for death rates, why don't we lockdown for influenza?  Why is it accepted as no big deal and Covid19 is huge?

Americans are far too blasé about influenza.

But we do have effective treatments, there is short-lived herd immunity, and there is a vaccine, which is partially effective. So most years, face masks and hand sanitation would probably suffice. We could undoubtedly lower influenza fatalities if we were conscientious about doing those things.

The problem with this novel virus is that we have no herd immunity, no effective treatments, and don't understand how it works. What we are learning about how it works is scary - it is not yet established that having it confers immunity, it looks like there may be large numbers of asymptomatic carriers, and people are dying suddenly when it looks as though they are on the mend.

As nearly as I can see we should all assume we are asymptomatic carriers in order to protect our friends and family, as well as strangers, from here on out. Some researchers fear there will never be a vaccine for this.

 

[WanderingRose]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]That's terrible Sofi, take double precautions. That's one of the huge problems with covid, the range of effect on different people is enormous. Some people don't get sick and don't even know they have it. In the worst case, like your fellow employee, you can go downhill so quickly. It's a total crap shoot where someone falls on the susceptiblity spectrum.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/85783[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Some people who are very healthy die because their immune systems massively over react in what is called a Cytokine Storm.[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome[/font]

 
It is my understanding that at least some of what causes younger and/or otherwise healthy people to become desperately ill and die is what they refer to as “viral load” or “viral dose”.  Basically the amount of the virus one is exposed to, through multiple infected others or very close and repeated contact.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/opinion/coronavirus-viral-dose.html

A great part of the risk our healthcare providers face. It’s a wicked virus.