Comfort vs. freedom.

[QinReno]

Just couldn't leave well-enough alone, could you. From here on, it's Class-A or nothing. This was many years ago, but I visited an old friend some years after moving out of the Bay Area. He had acquired a "few" things in the meantime, and was packing for a 3-day weekend trip to Sand Mtn. He had bought a good sized Winnebago, probably 38', and had a trailer hooked on that which held his full-size Blazer SUV in the back, and his dune buggy in the front of that. See how it works. If you get the big Class-A then you can pull all the goodies that you currently own behind it, .

But I was more or less trying to help OP not get too entangled right off the mark. I figure she would probably pass on a tent after thinking about having to live in one for days and days during stormy weather. There's nothing like pooping under a tree during a hurricane.

 

[Moxadox]

Good grief, now I can't get that image out of my head! Thanks a bunch, Q ;-P

The Dire Wolfess

 

[LadyJo]

I figure she would probably pass on a tent after thinking about having to live in one for days and days during stormy weather.

BTDT, got a lot of reading done. 5 gal bucket with kitty litter and walks in the lighter rain to the trash. I must admit it was a good size tent so we could heat water and make coffee inside. Cooking was done in a 1 foot hole in the ground for the fire, with a trench around it for water run off - and a metal card table over the hole to keep out the rain. I did get wet when I cooked, but I like to eat. It was ok.

 

[QinReno]

@MD, my attempt to break Deb in gently. I didn't want her thinking that living in a van would be some romantic way of life. She hasn't seen the thread with 99 posts about van people pooping in cans.

 

[Dingfelder]

Good grief, now I can't get that image out of my head!  Thanks a bunch, Q ;-P

The Dire Wolfess

It's even rougher being downwind.

 

[DLTooley]

Living outside of your vehicle is a big part of comfort, as well as being in a place with good weather. I like it to get down into the 40s at night which also helps with insects. And so long as it gets up to at least 60 in the day I am very comfortable.

Inclement weather is part of the overall experience and holing up for a day or two can be good. Designing a space, and power system, for this is the goal.

 

[John61CT]

I've always made sure even living in a S&B I've never been much more comfortable than I was living in a tent. Same with the three crops of kids I've raised.

Too accustomed to too much comfort, becomes like an addiction, a false "necessity" and thus a barrier to freedom.

 

[bullfrog]

I've bought, built and sold all sorts of RVs but I have always kept a tent.

 

[QinReno]

Deb's friend doesn't sound like the "roughing it" type. I do keep the tent to have for the brother-in-law to sleep in when he visits. I give him the 1/2" foam pad, and usually don't remove the little rocks from under the tent floor before setting it up. For full disclosure, I do like my 8" foam mattress in the van. About the only real comfort I have. But it was cold sleeping in there in March in AZ and NM when the temperatures dropped to 22F at night.

 

[rhondaweasley]

Before intially having no option, but to live in my car. I had lived in a sutuation where bills and home repair got really tough for my mom. So peeing in a bucket, washing from a basin of water, and living without electricity (and no warm water) happened long before living in a car. And when I was in that house without perfect plumbing and no electricity, I was stuck with just living in that one spot. Not to mention, embarrassed about it. Now, with my car, I can at least drive to a pretty park after work or anywhere I'd like on a free weekend. When my financial choices became keep the car or keep the apartment, car was an easy choice. I have never actually camped (Black people don't camp, lol.....I realize this is an untrue generalization) but I have lived with very little modern comforts before, so urban camping took some compromise but wasn't a misery to transition to. And I would love to camp outside as I love nature. I want to try a night in a tent at a campsite.

I think there is a choice between freedom and "comfort" in that ultimately you *could* (in theory) live in a temp controlled building with a temp controlled food box and city water pumping through pipes at your beck and call. The price of this for *most* people is no traveling or less traveling. These are, undoubtedly, "comforts" that even in the most high end RV are going to take some effort and $$$ to replicate. But even the most low end functional vehicle can drive you a lot of places.

I think for your friend, the question is even if she gets her RV is she willing to educate herself on the electrical, water systems, dumping her tanks? Yeah, her toilet "looks" like a house toilet in the RV, but her tanks aren't releasing themselves to sanitation for her. Electric also isn't pumping to her sockets on there own. Is she willing to educate herself on solar, buy a generator, learn how off the grid power systems work? Is she willing to live with limited internet? Is she planning to RV park hop. Does she understand the limitations of that?

The risk with RVs off the show room floor is that they feel/look so much like apartments, people try to work toward apartment-life in them sometimes without educating themselves on how it's different. Does she realize life on the road is essentially driving your home through an earthquake every time you move? (Don't leave out those delicate items on your tables!).

There's a lot of "just know this is a thing" before you hit the road in a vehicle AND give up the sticks and bricks. And It's good to know it and measure it against the benefits of giving up S&B. Learning about camping is exciting to me. I enjoy doing things I've never done and the excitement of newness. I don't mind dirt under my barefeet, I can live with a basin of water bath for a few days before I can shower, I am use to having to deal with the temp outside by layering up or down, I don't need my vehicle to do/be like an apartment. Yes, there are things that would make me more "comfortable" in single moments sometimes, but my comfort in my current situation is my freedom.

 

[mpruet]

Things which constantly break are not very comfortable.  

A class A/C is way too complicated and too full of stuff which will break.  The more comfortable amenities will especially be prone to break.  And if the rig is over 8 years old, then you have to expect the appliances to break as well.  Been there.  Done that. 

I started out with a 37 foot diesel pusher class-A with two slides and power steps.  Yes it was a nice rig - had a full size fridge/freezer and even a washer/dryer.  I was thrilled even though it was 10 years old.  

First thing to go were the tires - had to replace all 6 of them.

Next thing to go were the batteries - had to replace both of them. 

Then the washer stopped drying - had to take it apart twice to resecure the heating element. 

Then the hot water heater stopped heating - had to replace the circut board. 

Then the fridge stopped working - ended up having to replace the fridge.  And since that was going to require removing the bathroom wall and the washer/dryer was next to it - decided I might as well replace both.

Then had to remove a window to get the new fridge in. 

Then the power steps stopped working - had to replace the motor. 

Then the slide out motor ripped the slide cover...

The final straw was when I had to have it towed because of a bad cable to my starter battery and the tow company lost the drive shaft.  

I had it.  For a while, until I sold it, I car camped in my Prius!!!

I now have a class-B Travato - no slides, no washing machine - very simple design.  Can be worked on just about anywhere.

Maybe I don’t have all of the ‘luxury’ of my old class-A, but I have enough comfort to support my freedom.  

Tell your friend that if she really wants to live a nomadic lifestyle that she should first live a minimalistic lifestyle.  ‘TIS A GIFT TO BE SIMPLE!  ‘TIS A GIFT TO BE FREE...

And while I may not have all of the amenities that I had before, I have enough to be very comfortable.  In fact I recently had a very comfortable night camping on the Arctic Ocean.

 

[bullfrog]

Mpruet that is years worth of truth, but most people don't want to work at learning how to live simple. What is normal to most is not going be changed easily, cheaply or quckly unless they are forced into it or convinced by groups of people like the ones here. It is hard and takes time to educate your self to a point where if someone offered you a brand new 40' motor home with all the wonderful appliances and comforts to realize that is not what you need to stay free and happy. Keep turning and it will all work out right means keep trying and with experience some will figure out how to live happy.

 

[crofter]

Bob says you can have comfort or freedom. 

I disagree. I think you can have both, but your idea of comfort may change.  One facet of minimalist living: the daily bath.
I used to think that a hot bathtub full of gallons and gallons of water was necessary for me to feel clean when bathing. I have now learned that I can conserve a great deal of water and fuel by taking a basin bath in one to two gallons of water. 
Do I enjoy the bath less because there is less water and less fuel being used? Am I getting less clean with a basin bath?
To me, the basin bath is more enjoyable, because I am paying more attention to the act of bathing. It feels much more natural and in harmony to do the basin bath, and I get just as clean. My skin is healthier because I am not overdoing it with hot water and soap. Cool water is much easier on your skin.  
I agree with this quote "too much comfort, becomes like an addiction, a false "necessity" and thus a barrier to freedom."    ~crofter

 

[Moxadox]

Things which constantly break are not very comfortable.  

A class A/C is way too complicated and too full of stuff which will break.  The more comfortable amenities will especially be prone to break.  And if the rig is over 8 years old, then you have to expect the appliances to break as well.  Been there.  Done that. 

I started out with a 37 foot diesel pusher class-A with two slides and power steps.  Yes it was a nice rig - had a full size fridge/freezer and even a washer/dryer.  I was thrilled even though it was 10 years old.  

First thing to go were the tires - had to replace all 6 of them.

Next thing to go were the batteries - had to replace both of them. 

Then the washer stopped drying - had to take it apart twice to resecure the heating element. 

Then the hot water heater stopped heating - had to replace the circut board. 

Then the fridge stopped working - ended up having to replace the fridge.  And since that was going to require removing the bathroom wall and the washer/dryer was next to it - decided I might as well replace both.

Then had to remove a window to get the new fridge in. 

Then the power steps stopped working - had to replace the motor. 

Then the slide out motor ripped the slide cover...

The final straw was when I had to have it towed because of a bad cable to my starter battery and the tow company lost the drive shaft.  

I had it.  For a while, until I sold it, I car camped in my Prius!!!

I now have a class-B Travato - no slides, no washing machine - very simple design.  Can be worked on just about anywhere.

Maybe I don’t have all of the ‘luxury’ of my old class-A, but I have enough comfort to support my freedom.  

Tell your friend that if she really wants to live a nomadic lifestyle that she should first live a minimalistic lifestyle.  ‘TIS A GIFT TO BE SIMPLE!  ‘TIS A GIFT TO BE FREE...

And while I may not have all of the amenities that I had before, I have enough to be very comfortable.  In fact I recently had a very comfortable night camping on the Arctic Ocean.

Good grief, what a wear cycle!

The Arctic Circle! Where? I'm jealous.

I just spent 3 1/2 years in Class Bs, first a Roadtrek 190, and then after I got through having too many adventures up to my hubs in mud and volcanic quicksand, and ripped off all the lovely trim, I got a 4WD one and had lots of fun with it. But the dark got to me, annnnd...stuff kept breaking. I was in the shop as much as I was on the road. I camped in dealer parking lots from coast to coast, towed 700 miles cumulatively. So I got a small 5th wheel, and now I'm way comfy and plenty of light but I feel like I'm in jail, relative to the freedom of the van.

The Dire Wolfess

 

[bigskybob]

Why would anyone want to limit themselves to the simple things in life?

 

[mpruet]

Good grief, what a wear cycle!  

The Arctic Circle!  Where?  I'm jealous.

Sorry I took so long to reply.  Where I’ve been there is not always that much internet. 

I went to Tuktoyaktuk, Northwest Territories. This is using an extension of the Dempster Highway which has replaced the “Ice Road Truckers” road.  It’s about 100 miles north of Inuvik.  I’m currently in Valdez, Alaska for a few days before I head out somewhere else interesting.  

You can check out my blog which has some pictures of my trip to the Arctic Ocean - http://www.GoneRetired.com as well as my YouTube channel - also called “Gone Retired”.  The YouTube channel is about a month behind and has me just making it into the Yukon.

 

[Dingfelder]

I disagree. I think you can have both, but your idea of comfort may change.  One facet of minimalist living: the daily bath.
I used to think that a hot bathtub full of gallons and gallons of water was necessary for me to feel clean when bathing. I have now learned that I can conserve a great deal of water and fuel by taking a basin bath in one to two gallons of water. 
Do I enjoy the bath less because there is less water and less fuel being used? Am I getting less clean with a basin bath?
To me, the basin bath is more enjoyable, because I am paying more attention to the act of bathing. It feels much more natural and in harmony to do the basin bath, and I get just as clean. My skin is healthier because I am not overdoing it with hot water and soap. Cool water is much easier on your skin.  
I agree with this quote "too much comfort, becomes like an addiction, a false "necessity" and thus a barrier to freedom."    ~crofter

Doesn't work for me.  I have oily skin, and it needs to be gone over and scrubbed with soap while still wet, then rinsed thoroughly, three or four times if not more.  For that I can get by with five gallons or a little less, but that's pushing it.

I can get by in between shower days by doing a sponge bath, and wash my face and neck and pits every day.  That helps a lot, but to really tame my oily skin, especially in these blazing hot summer days we're having here now, takes a lot of water.  If I go even two days without getting rid of the oil, it starts to stain my shirt collars and pillow cases yellow, which I can never get out.

 

[Sharknose]

I know Im new to the whole concept of full time RVing, or even RVing period and Im still saving up the money for my first class C. But it has given me a lot of time to research and learn both from you all here and on a few other sites. Minimilistic lifestyle definetly appeals to me, I just need my cordless wood working tools for both repairs and hobby working, and my sewing machine for same. TV would be nice but not necessary, Ive been watching all my movies on my phone for months now anyways due to circumstances. A laptop will be nice and the kitchen stuff (refrigerator, microwave, and stove, and coffeepot).
Creature comforts: I realized in the last house (2 bedrooms and full basement) that I generally only utilized the kitchen, bathroom, bed, and lazy boy when I was in the house anyways. So why do I need more now... After my divorce (my ex got everything) I came to appreciate not having all that stuff. It was more of a chore to maintain and store all the "needs" than any of it was worth. So for the last 3 years I have already been very minimalistic. It probably helps that I did 22 years in the Navy and have been forced to go without all the "comforts of life" for long stretches of time, and it never really bothered me. And if I get to the point where I just have to stay in a house for a few days, theres always friends and relatives that I can travel to.
I have decided I want a C class because of the comfort of living it will give me, even if minimalistic, and the freedom of being able to go most places I want to go. Yes I plan on boondocking a lot! And will probably stay close by to where I am at for at least the forseable future due to job and my best friend. Im in central Illinois and yes the winters get a little harsh but it won't kill me, but the plus side is that there are plenty of old dirt roads to hang out on and plenty of old barns to pull up next to for the night, after asking the farmer of course.
Im going to be living a dream! And that is freedom to me!

 

[crofter]

I just need my cordless wood working tools for both repairs and hobby working, and my sewing machine for same.  

I was running my tools and sewing machine off my generator. Also charging my laptop off it. Then the alternator in my truck went out and I used the generator to charge up the truck as well. Finally got a mechanic cornered into replacing the alternator and all is well with the truck. Point being, that I saved the tow truck bill out of the boonies by having a generator.
At the time I bought it, I thought the generator might be a waste of money and space on the rig. But it was on sale and as it turns out, has paid for itself several times over. ~crofter

 

[Deb_A]

@RhondaWeasley

I grew up with no a/c and barely any heat in old, drafty houses, and during the summer, we visited my grandmother who had no indoor plumbing, just a hand pump outside, so I'm very familiar with roughing it. I didn't live in an apartment with central heat and air until I was 30, and I've lived in a few without it since then. 
I have the right attitude, though. I'm not going to be living "in" my van, I'm living "out of it." If I'm boondocking and the weather is bad for a few days, I can deal. I used to go camping a lot, so it's not a big deal to me to be trapped inside for awhile, as long as I can get some air flow going. Plus, like they say, if you don't like where you are, crank it up and leave. If the van gets too cramped, I can just drive down to a town and get out of it for awhile. 
I could never live like some do, always out in the boonies, far away from civilization, but I don't want to be stuck in cities all the time either. The best thing about the life is having choices.