Comfort vs. freedom.

[Deb_A]

TLDR: Bob says you can have comfort or freedom. Quite a few people have unrealistic expectations of the comfort they can have on a severely limited budget. I feel like a lot of the new, younger RV and van dwellers will drop out soon because of the comfort factor, and only the hard-core who either love it enough to withstand the discomfort or have no other choice will remain. What are your thoughts on this?

Bob's words "You can have comfort, or you can have freedom," have always stuck in my head. I think a lot of people romanticize RV and van life, and I see a lot of them, especially the younger ones, dropping out in the next few years to go back to a S&B abode where they can be more comfortable. This new influx of vandwellers and RVers will disappear, and only the hardcore who can take it will be left behind. Right now, it's a fad for quite a few, and a necessity for quite a few more, but when the fadders drop out, and (sadly) we Boomer nomads start dying off, the numbers will dwindle considerably.

I have a new online friend who wants to be an RVer, but I don't think she is suited for the life because she demands too much comfort, and she doesn't have the money to support it. She has to have a certain range of temperatures, and wants to have full electric hookups most of the time. She wants a Class C RV because she can't be in anything smaller. She also has physical limitations which would preclude her from taking a lot of the jobs available to RVers. She qualifies for disability, but doesn't have enough SS credits built up to apply. 

I remember when I first started thinking about van life, and I put the idea aside because of the comfort factor. Even now, I've put off my plans for another year so I can set out with enough solar for a refrigerator and other amenities that will make it easier for me. I don't do well in heat, so finding a comfortable place to spend the summer will be a priority. One reason I decided to mostly be a city dweller is for comfort's sake; showers, bathrooms, climate controlled areas to be in, accessible wifi, etc. 

I keep telling her she needs to research it more, because RVs can be expensive, especially an RV the age she could afford. She said she saw a class C for $5,000 or so the other day, and I had to tell her that she would spend way more than that to fix the leaks and all the damage that had been done to it in all those years. I sent her to Carolyn's RV Life earlier videos to show all the problems she had with Matilda. With COPD, she definitely does not need mold issues to deal with.

I felt bad, but I did tell her that I didn't think she was suited for the life unless it was the only option she had. I hope she does some research and can come up with a solution that works for her. 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[WalkaboutTed]

What I really think? Is this person of sufficient mind, age and intellect and competent to make decisions about her own life? The answer to that question will give you yours.
Ted

 

[Moxadox]

My thoughts are, you've hit on something very important. Van/vehicle life is one step up from living in a tent. I've been doing it for almost 4 years, but before that I lived in a barn without indoor plumbing, so I actually found my little solar-powered haven to be heaven.

Faced with a change in my income and the fact that I'm not dead yet and might not be for a while, I invested half of my savings on a used pickup and a new camper trailer that with care will be a comfy home for the rest of my life. There are still plenty of free places to park it, and low cost places if I need to hook up for a time. This to me is ultimate comfort!

Limitations: it needs a solar system. Until I get that, I'm tied to either propane or electric hookups in order to have refrigeration. This will be fixed.

So: comfort vs freedom, yes, there are definitely adjustments and tradeoffs. A balance can be achieved. On a stormy n ight, my van rocking in the wind, listening to the rain lashing the metal, I was mighty grateful for my tin can, thinking of all the poor folks stuck outside in tents or even without any shelter. Now with my incredibly comfy trailer I'm forced to give up a lot of spontaneity: I can't just get out of bed and slide behind the wheel if I want to leave at a moment's notice. I can't just turn down that interesting looking dirt road and explore it, and simply park in an inviting-looking nook in the forest. So yes, I've traded a level of freedom for comfort.

I guess there still ain't no free lunch [emoji23]

The Dire Wolfess

 

[QinReno]

To Deb_A:
"You can have comfort, or you can have freedom".

After living the comforts of a regular S&B life for all of their lives, I doubt that many solo women would enjoy living full time in a van. What Bob says is good for him, but not so much for your friend. A smallish Class-C is big enough to provide the usual comforts, but from what I've seen, you have to spend somewhat more than $20,000 to get anything at all worthwhile, and then it'll be already 20-years old in any case.

Similar to what moxadox just said, I consider my van to be a "metal tent", and not much more.

 

[DLTooley]

Although I get the point I personally find freedom very comforting.

Then again I am also now part time, but the rig is always ready to go.

 

[lenny flank]

Vans and RVs are not apartments.

That may seem to be a trivial truth, but alas I have found that many potential dwellers do not recognize it.

I find the mobile lifestyle entirely comfortable, but that is because I recognize its limitations and can accept them. (I'm a longtime backpacker and am pretty accustomed to being in a tent, so for me a van-camper is palatial.)

As a backpacking friend of mine always used to say, "If you want to have all the comforts of home, then stay home."

 

[MrNoodly]

I had all the comforts of living in a building. I looked around and saw how little of the house I actually used. I saw the maintenance bills. I saw the mortgage payments, property taxes and insurance. I saw the yard that needed constant mowing and raking. I saw the vapidness of suburban life. And I didn't want any of that anymore. Now I have no plumbing or climate control or cable TV and I have to go outside to stand up, but I'm very comfortable—physically and mentally.

As for your friend, everyone is entitled to try things to see if they like them or not. Everyone is entitled to make their own poor choices.

 

[DannyB1954]

Sounds like she needs to apply for subsidized housing. If you have no income and can't work, How are you to pay for fuel, insurance, tires or any other expense?

 

[Bast]

i often think of Bob's statement also. I ended spending way more money than I'd hoped to buying a toy hauler that is handicap accessible. I also have more modifications to make. before it is a safe vehicle for my wheelchair  bound sister. One of the compromises I had to make is that I have to work an extra year to pay for all of modifications and this delays going full time. Your friend is going to have to find compromises that  work for her..  I hope hey won't be to painful/

 

[Jacksonricher]

Freedom or comfort? I think you can have both, it all depends on your frame of mind and how you look at it.

I started out with high expectations with a huge class A, then reality set in some and I liked the long sprinter hightop. Lol. Then reality set in when I saw the price tags lol. So then I thought about me and my situation. Every one of us are different and have different expectations.
Soon I realized I hated the suburban life I grew up in and wanted the freedom and travel. The comfort I gave up was what an apartment that cost me way to much that I was broke 24/7
I forgot about the sprinter van and started looking at vans, full size Ford and Chevy. Pinterest became my friend and I realuzed I still had a chance at my dream.
Tonight, somehow, I sit in my full size Ford E250 high top. Is it all dressed out, nope. Am I comfortable, kinda even though it's totally empty in the back. Do I have Freedom, more than I had in the apt and I know the two will come together soon. I want both NOW but that's not life.
I had another curve ball thrown at me on the first so my timeline had to be adjusted. Well in doing so it help refine my priorities with my van and life, so it was a good curve ball. Tonight I can sleep on the edge of the Pacific ocean in San Francisco and watch the sunset if I wanted to. Or I can sit at Sam's club for the night. I could never do that in the apartment.
I have Freedom, not 100% comfortable yet but getting there and enjoying the ride.
Everything changed when I watched Bob's video, and changed for the better. Thank you Bob, and thank you to all the posters on this site, I am forever grateful.
I have more freedom tonight and I have more mental comfort tonight.
Amen

Jackson

 

[Almost There]

I don't consider my set up to be lacking in comfort and I certainly am not lacking for freedom.

But then I planned it this way and had a lot of experience in both camping and living on the road before I embarked on this stint as a full-timer.

I don't consider myself to be 'hard-core who can take it' although a lot of my acquaintances see me as a 'tough old bird'!  

I've often told people that I have everything I need and have nothing that I want for.

I will admit that I have an adequate (not a lot but adequate) income, can work if I want and had enough money in the bank to do the set up that has given me this amount of freedom and comfort. But then I don't need a lot - not a lot of space, not a lot of clothing, not a lot of 'things'.

 

[losthighwaydrifter]

like the old saying in racing "speed cost $$ how fast can you afford to go" comfort and freedom can both be had but it cost. you have to pay to play any where in life. I think way to many people are stuck on the American dream of the 10,000sq ft mcmanson 4 cars in the drive. and 80% of America is living pay check to paycheck.
If most of them lived inside there means they be in a small stuffy apartment with no cable t.v. Being in a mobile self contained affordable home. is a vast improvement in my mind.

 

[lenny flank]

I've often told people that I have everything I need and have nothing that I want for.

The wisdom of the old backpacker: "Take what you need, and need what you take."

 

[Deb_A]

So many wise voices here. I talked with my friend again yesterday, and she is convinced she can be making enough passive income in two years to do it the way she wants. I hope she can. I'm shooting for the same thing, so we'll work on it together.

I do want to reply to WalkaboutTed's comment:

"What I really think? Is this person of sufficient mind, age and intellect and competent to make decisions about her own life? The answer to that question will give you yours.
Ted"

A true friend NEVER lets someone they care about make a horrible mistake if they can help guide them toward a better solution. Leaving someone who is uninformed to make a life-altering mistake is just burying your head in the sand, and not the mark of a true friend at all. I would feel awful if my friend set out in a rickety old RV that caused her more expense than she could afford and health problems besides. I think we all have an obligation to educate each other on the bad as well as the good of the lifestyle. 

That being said, I once thought I would have to have an RV to be happy, but the truth is, I'll be traveling to see things, not to sit in a van 24/7. I like what Bob says about living out of your van, not in it. Sure, there will be times I'll be stuck in the van, and I may be uncomfortable during those times, but I'm uncomfortable here sometimes, and it's a nice apartment. 

Would I like to have a Class B RV for the space and amenities? Sure I would, but it would be too tempting to just sit in there all the time like I sit in this apartment most of the time and not really live. I've learned from not having a vehicle at all that it's horrible to be trapped inside when weather is bad or it's too hot or cold to walk or even ride a bike where you need to go. If I had a vehicle, I could get out of here and go do something. My life is very limited by not having a vehicle, and I don't think I really gave thought to how limited it would be before I made the decision to go car-less. 

So I'm giving a lot of thought to my van dwelling adventure. I'll have as much comfort as I can afford in my van, and seek more comfort elsewhere outside the van. It's my choice, which is why I decided to be mostly a city dweller. I like showers. I like real bathrooms. I like being able to go to grocery stores daily if necessary. I like having climate controlled buildings to go into to get out of the heat and cold. I like being close to entertainment. I LIKE PIZZAS! But I also like being totally alone sometimes, and that's something I would be willing to give up comfort to do. The lifestyle appeals to me because it offers the freedom to choose.

 

[QinReno]

Would I like to have a Class B RV for the space and amenities? Sure I would, but it would be too tempting to just sit in there all the time like I sit in this apartment most of the time and not really live. 

A Class B is still a van, and not all that big enough to just want to sit inside of all the time. I go inside my van at night, but not much in the daytime. Live outside most of the time when traveling. Which is why I had mentioned a Class-C earlier. OTOH, a lot of (albeit retired) people with RVs over 30' long, as well as travel trailers, seem to sit inside most of the time. It may not be workable, but one possibility is that a couple of people could buy an RV together. Must be extremely compatible.

Another possibility and not knowing where you live, apartment rentals tend to be cheaper outside of the cities. After retiring, I spent fully 2 years moving to different towns and renting apartments for 6-12 months at a time.

 

[Deb_A]

^^^^
This is what I've thought about too. If I get to a town and stay a few days, then a couple of weeks, and decide I like it pretty well, I might decide to rent a place and stay for awhile. Traveling constantly is hard on you. You sometimes just need a place to recharge and plan for further travels. 

Ultimately, I'm looking for a place to settle in my old age once I get too old to live in a van. By living in places that appeal to me and learning what life there is really like year-around, I can make an informed decision. 

I don't know if I could live in one place, though. I don't like the cold or the heat, so snowbirding as long as I can is what I'm looking to do.

 

[Almost There]

A Class B is still a van, and not all that big enough to just want to sit inside of all the time. .

Depending on the layout of your van, it can be very livable or it can be so totally crowded that it is nigh impossible to be comfortable inside.

I've run in to some bad weather that has had me inside the van for up to 6 solid days at a time, only going outside to put out the garbage!

Would I rather have been outside a lot of the time, of course I would BUT I wasn't uncomfortable inside. I turned on some tunes and danced for exercise...could I do a polka, hell no.... but I did manage some small line dancing.

It all depends on the layout of the van. A full size cargo van with a high top can be a very comfortable living space IF it's well laid out. As part of that layout it needs enough storage space for you to have all your stuff have a place. If you have to keep shifting stuff around to do things, then it's going to get tiresome. Too crowded a layout (like a lot of Class B's) and you have no room to actually live.

 

[QinReno]

^^^^
This is what I've thought about too. If I get to a town and stay a few days, then a couple of weeks, and decide I like it pretty well, I might decide to rent a place and stay for awhile. Traveling constantly is hard on you. You sometimes just need a place to recharge and plan for further travels. 

Ultimately, I'm looking for a place to settle in my old age once I get too old to live in a van. By living in places that appeal to me and learning what life there is really like year-around, I can make an informed decision. 

I don't know if I could live in one place, though. I don't like the cold or the heat, so snowbirding as long as I can is what I'm looking to do.

Before we all get too old to live in a van, NOW is the time to travel around and see it EVERYTHING. And maybe along the way, you'll find a place that you like and where you can live relatively inexpensively later on. It is a fact that the current demographics in the US is people moving out of the small towns and to the cities. Which means a lot of small towns will have empty living units. How about a small town that is just outside the radius of where people commute into a city from. Cheaper rent, and you can still go to the big city on a half day trip. Bottom line is, all you really need beyond that is a grocery store and some medical clinic not too far away. 

I think another demographic that will start to become more common in the future as living costs continue to go up, is for strangers to move into houses owned by others, for the purpose of mutual support. How many elderly people live in big houses all alone? A lot, I'll bet. In a college town, they'll often rent out rooms to students. But they are probably also a lot of them in non-college towns who might like roommates. But this is a possibility for down the road in the future, and may not be someone's 1st preference, but is another option.

 

[QinReno]

Depending on the layout of your van, it can be very livable or it can be so totally crowded that it is nigh impossible to be comfortable inside.

I've run in to some bad weather that has had me inside the van for up to 6 solid days at a time, only going outside to put out the garbage!

AT, I agree with everything you said, but someone moving from a comfortable apartment to a van in one quick hop will have a huge amount of adapting to do.

On your bad weather thing, you give me an idea. Have you tried putting up a tent, and then spending some time in it and some time in the van? Soggy tents are horrible to pack up, but if you're planted somewheres for a while, you can always wait until it dries out before moving.

I ask this because my original plan long before I got the van was that I had bought a 4-man tent that was large enough to almost stand up in, and which I could put table, chair, etc, into besides the mattress. I figured I could spend a week or more in it during bad weather and not be too cramped, as compared to the typical small 2-man tent where you can barely sit up in. Now I am thinking that tent plus van would give me even more options than van alone. Just a thought.

 

[bullfrog]

We started with a tent. Then needed a trailer to haul it and the kitchen gear. Then enclosed it to secure all the camping gear and have a place to sleep when the weather was too bad for the tent. Then added a bathroom of sorts, composting toliet and shower stall. Then made a larger trailer platform to haul a Samurai. Talk about reverse engineering! Some really nice screen rooms are out there but I do like having a floor to keep the bugs under control in the evenings.