Cargo Trailer Conversion - I hope

[eDJ_]

I've watched part of the Foam Bones video and it brings back a lot of old memories of working with foam. I was using fiberglass & resins as a coating on what I built. It is an amazing construction technique that you could make a build out with that would be light and inexpensive. What I would fear most using it would be a fire. If caught early and extinguished the structures may "melt", but once really on fire (365 degrees f) it is known to give off toxic vapors. (this according to the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization of Australia who have researched this material) I would urge extreme caution with electrical wiring and open flame heating & cooking if you do a foam build out. Run your wiring in enclosed panduit raceways may be a good practice.

When building/working with this material it may be wise to work in open or ventilated spaces.

If you want to experiment with foam, you could find a used single phase Variac transformer and some Nichrome wire and make your own cutting tools. Shown in link below:

Hot Wire Foam Cutting

It is possible to build forms and pour closed cell 2 part Urethane foam to make structures also.

2 part liquid expanding Urethane Foam

Youtube 5:38 minute demo video

How To Use Pouring Foam

 

[RonDean]

On YouTube I followed a couple in a van in Canada who lived in it full time with no insulation . They said after they sprayed the entire interior with truck bed liner they never had condensation.

That might work. We can differ on best or easiest insulation and methods, but in my experience two people in an uninsulated metal box will seem like it's raining inside.

 

[SLB_SA]

My son is building a "foamy" on a HF 4'x8' foldable trailer. With the framework (made mostly of 2"x4" lumber) inplace, the trailer weighs about 560 pounds.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^The Harbor Freight trailer has a lot of short comings. We have had several but usually had to repack the bearings immediately as the factory doesn’t put much grease on the bearings and got about 3,000 miles out of tires. We generally switched to larger wheels and fenders with regular vehicle tires but then had to reinforce the tongue while welding all the bolted together joints. Eventually there wasn’t much of the Harbor Freight trailer left as I modified a boat trailer axle to fit and replaced the original axle. The next trailer I built myself but it ended up costing about $800 and weighing about twice what the Harbor Freight trailer did. The Harbor Freight trailer is light, worked and never gave us any problems while traveling. My camper box weighed about 800 lbs. but had too much frontal area which made it hard to tow with my little 4 cylinder Tacoma. It was 7’wide by 6’ tall and 7’ long so way too big for the trailer but it worked below 60 MPH. It is now 11’ long and mounted on the front of my 24’ flatbed trailer. The Harbor Freight trailer got cut down and now hauls 2 55 gallon barrels for my fresh and black water. There is a whole section on Harbor Freight trailers and foamies at tnttt.com but building doesn’t require anything heavy like 2”x 4” construction lumber if using Poor Man’s Fiberglass inside and out. Paul Elkins Burning Man foam structure taped together holds his weight when he gets on top to get a better view! lol!!!

 

[eDJ_]

If anyone has a pet that they travel with, here is a simple foam project they could undertake to get some experience. A small foam trailer may be rather cramped for room and a pet may appreciate having their own abode. Right now stores are full of boxing day deals on plastic bin's.

Foam insulated pet home for bad weather

DIY Cat Shelter

Nebraska Humane Shares Plans

 

[SLB_SA]

^^^The Harbor Freight trailer has a lot of short comings. We have had several but usually had to repack the bearings immediately as the factory doesn’t put much grease on the bearings and got about 3,000 miles out of tires. We generally switched to larger wheels and fenders with regular vehicle tires but then had to reinforce the tongue while welding all the bolted together joints. Eventually there wasn’t much of the Harbor Freight trailer left as I modified a boat trailer axle to fit and replaced the original axle. The next trailer I built myself but it ended up costing about $800 and weighing about twice what the Harbor Freight trailer did. The Harbor Freight trailer is light, worked and never gave us any problems while traveling. My camper box weighed about 800 lbs. but had too much frontal area which made it hard to tow with my little 4 cylinder Tacoma. It was 7’wide by 6’ tall and 7’ long so way too big for the trailer but it worked below 60 MPH. It is now 11’ long and mounted on the front of my 24’ flatbed trailer. The Harbor Freight trailer got cut down and now hauls 2 55 gallon barrels for my fresh and black water. There is a whole section on Harbor Freight trailers and foamies at tnttt.com but building doesn’t require anything heavy like 2”x 4” construction lumber if using Poor Man’s Fiberglass inside and out. Paul Elkins Burning Man foam structure taped together holds his weight when he gets on top to get a better view! lol!!!

The trailer is a used HF trailer with a reinforced frame, extended tongue, etc. The two halves are welded together and the tongue was extended back as well as forward. It was used to haul mowing equipment, small tractors, etc. New, larger wheels will be added and the axle will probably be replaced. The "box" will collapse enough to go into and out of the (7' high door) garage. When parked, the floor is extended (3'-4') to the rear and the majority of the roof lifted to allow a 6' person (me) to stand in the back part of the box. It should weigh under 750 pounds without additional stuff. His Prius should be able to haul it easily. Once he perfects the design and construction method, he might build a few to order if there is demand?

 

[DBinMI]

Instead of a hot plate look into an induction cooktop. Better solution in my opinion

Thanks. I had one; didn't like it. Maybe I'll give it another try.

 

[DBinMI]

keyword:
* "...with nearly all the necessities of life on the road..."
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[grabs my 'concerned, but hopefully helpful' hat]
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a)
I get the impression you two adults are considering going full-time live-aboard?
And you live in a harsh weather zone?
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5 x 8 with a 5' ceiling... before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the floor and ceiling, before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the walls?
Suddenly, the usable interior is a squidgen over 4' wide, with a vertical height of slightly more than four feet?
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How realistic is this?
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Unless you have a extensive Real-World camping experience and plan on extending your quarters every night by setting-up a tent...
...("I travel with a handicapped adult who cannot help with setup/tear down, and I'm no longer a spring chicken.")...
...plus renting a mini-storage unit for seasonal clothing and spares, you need a much bigger interior:
* Two adults in a space smaller than THE SIZE OF OUR BED in our ExpeditionVehicle?
* Full-time live-aboard, hunched under a 5'/1.5m ceiling?
* Two beds, plus galley, plus hygiene facilities, plus food and water, plus wardrobe, plus entertainment?
* Plugging-in your electric heater, relying on the electric grid during a blizzard... during the period of the highest likelihood of grid failure?
[le sigh]
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Suggestions:
1) using cardboard, build full-size mock-ups of your built-in furniture for a visual idea of fit and access (and interference).
Some home-builders use masking tape on a garage floor (a sidewalk or parking-lot could work, too) for a template.
While that two-dimension flat 'drawing' can work for some builders, I prefer working with a full-size three-dimensional mock-up.
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2) Tow your trailer to a welder-fabricator.
Those geniuses (with a tetch of lunacy) are accustomed to odd-ball requests, accustomed to working with strange equipment... and above all, accustomed to fiddling with stuff to make it work.
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Semi-retired welder-fabricator here.
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If your budget allows this latitude, I would:
* FIRST -- design my interior, then...
* SECOND -- build my exterior to fit.
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Example :
While full-time live-aboard on a 42'/13m sailboat, we constantly designed our ideal live-aboard.
We honestly truly believe a coastal cruiser of 80'/24m is about right for two adults.
Off-shore (getting out of the 'snow' zone and leaving the electric grid behind), add at least another 12'/4m.
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b)
We are founding members of the No! Holes! In! The! Roof! club, so we like that part of your plan.

Live in it full time, in Yooperland? Not a chance. This is for an extended trip down to the south, over to the east coast, and then back home again - call it a month - probably next summer. The entire trip is somewhere around 4500 miles, so I'm trying to be prepared. Overnight camping and pit stops is what I visualize most, with a bit of insurance left over in case none of the kinfolk are willing or able to put us up, or in case we're unexpectedly benighted without advance reservations at a hotel. Not planning on using it during cold weather at all, but it's a funny thing I found out about camping: just because it's hot and humid in the day, there is no guarantee that you won't be cold at night. But space being what it is, insulation will be minimal, and I've read that thermal paint is a miracle invention.

Bed(s) will be set up in the tow vehicle ('21 Ascent). Unbelievable amount of room in that thing. I have one mattress that will go across the back cargo section, and another that goes over the second seat. Trailer planning is for galley, eating, relaxing. Having done a full camping trip in the back of the 4x4 P/u with cap, and traveled/slept in it also, this is actually not that daunting. It helps that we're both small people. Renting a storage unit for the camping odds and ends won't be necessary, either; my house is pretty big. I have consulted with a welder/fabricator; he's the one who wants to put in a roof vent.

Your suggestion of a mockup is something I've considered doing, because it just seems as if my graph paper drawing (1sq=1") is just too generous compared with my memory of the interior of the trailer.

 

[DBinMI]

You could make fold down beds in the trailer so they are out of your way unless sleeping. As for the door make it swing in & use the U brackets you drop a 2x4 in at nighr so it can't be kicked in. I'm SW of Kalamazoo about 30 miles from Elkhart Indiana where there are a dozen or so RV Surplus stores. If you can spare the weight you could make a light weight V nose front on the hitch to make it more aerodynamic & store very lightweight bulky items. Welcome & Good Luck!

Interesting suggestions. Thanks!

 

[maki2]

Even if a door swings out you can still add u brackets on the inside of the door and drop in a 2x4 that extends outside of the door frame into another set of brackets secured into framing members. That too will prevent it from being kicked in by someone outside without needing to change out the door swing.

 

[RonDean]

Even if a door swings out you can still add u brackets on the inside of the door and drop in a 2x4 that extends outside of the door frame into another set of brackets secured into framing members. That too will prevent it from being kicked in by someone outside without needing to change out the door swing.

That sounds like a better solution than my CTC build. I installed a Cam Bar Lock and put in a second latch point to swing the latch around and lock it in an open position.

 

[DBinMI]

That sounds like a better solution than my CTC build. I installed a Cam Bar Lock and put in a second latch point to swing the latch around and lock it in an open position.

That was the one I was thinking of trying, having seen it on a youtube video. Still would like to find some info on installing an actual door in the center of the barn door.

 

[maki2]

That was the one I was thinking of trying, having seen it on a youtube video. Still would like to find some info on installing an actual door in the center of the barn door.

Why would you want to install a door in the center of a pair of rear barn doors on a cargo trailer? You could not maintain adequate structural integrity of the barn doors if you cut that much material out of the center of them. Those doors do not have sufficient width and height for that particular scenario due to the limitations of the height and width of the rear wall of a cargo trailer. You would end up with wobbly sections around the center door and it would also not be well sealed weatherwise. You would want a fixed panel surrounding the center door opening and proper gaskets and lock on it.

I can understand wanting a center door as it makes for a good interior layout of living space. My little vintage travel trailer has a center rear door instead of the more typical door on the side and I appreciate that as I was able to put 14’ of counter space inside a 10’ long travel trailer.

 

[DBinMI]

Why would you want to install a door in the center of a pair of rear barn doors on a cargo trailer? You could not maintain adequate structural integrity of the barn doors if you cut that much material out of the center of them. Those doors do not have sufficient width and height for that particular scenario due to the limitations of the height and width of the rear wall of a cargo trailer. You would end up with wobbly sections around the center door and it would also not be well sealed weatherwise. You would want a fixed panel surrounding the center door opening and proper gaskets and lock on it.

I can understand wanting a center door as it makes for a good interior layout of living space. My little vintage travel trailer has a center rear door instead of the more typical door on the side and I appreciate that as I was able to put 14’ of counter space inside a 10’ long travel trailer.

Flexibility in usage for the unit. None of the furnishings are intended to be permanent fixtures, since I have more use for it as a cargo trailer throughout the year. However, I thought that having a secondary door in the middle of the single barn door would enable me to keep it secured while having easy access to, and internal security of, the interior when it's outfitted as a camper and occupied, and I really don't want to cut a hole in the side when I have to plan every square inch of usable space. Feedback such as yours is why I come here; some ideas really need another perspective regarding feasibility.

 

[maki2]

Just make it so one of the two doors stays shut while only the other one is open. Could be as simple as adding a drop/barrel bolt at the bottom or top or even both the bottom and top of one or both both doors so they can be secured in place independently of each other instead of using the exterior bar latch. Drop/barrel bolts are easy enough to install and can be left in place versus putting up brackets to hold a 2x4 across the whole opening and wrestling with storing a long 2x4.

So basically your problem is easy enough to solve with a trip to your local hardware store or an Amazon order plus a bit of drilling and installing screws. No need for a major modification such as adding another door.

 

[maki2]

Word of caution, make sure the barrel/drop bolts cannot accidentally engage and lock you out of the trailer. Rough roads could cause an accidental deployment when you are not inside the trailer. So modify my suggestion to using one that is spring loaded so that it can’t be accidentally engaged and locked in position by gravity or vibrations.

 

[Malamute]

Word of caution, make sure the barrel/drop bolts cannot accidentally engage and lock you out of the trailer. Rough roads could cause an accidental deployment when you are not inside the trailer. So modify my suggestion to using one that is spring loaded so that it can’t be accidentally engaged and locked in position by gravity or vibrations.

This^^^

I had a barrel bolt horizontally on the inside of my bathouse door, twice it locked when I closed the door firmly. I would have bet anyone any amount of money it couldnt happen, until it did, twice. Once I beat the door open with great effort with the back of an axe, finally breaking the barrel bolt. OK, complete fluke. but it happened again, I then used a sawzall the open the vent hole in the door larger so i could reach the bolt. I then removed it completely and just put it in place if Im in there.

Id absolutely never trust a veritcal barrel bolt mounted downwards.

The lockable gate type slider is perhaps less likely to activate unintentionally. It can be locked open with a snap or whatever.

https://www.menards.com/main/p-1444...ontent=2251381&utm_campaign=National+Hardware

 

[LargeMarge]

... The lockable gate type slider [barrel-bolt] can be locked open with a snap or [padlock]...

https://www.menards.com/main/p-1444...ontent=2251381&utm_campaign=National+Hardware

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re -- links
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I discovered anything after the question mark is a secondary-vendor identity.
Hence, I delete the question mark, plus everything after it.
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I also delete the 'https://', because it is repetitive since most e-addresses use that.
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My version of that link:
www.menards.com/main/p-1444448915929.htm
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I hope this helps!

 

[overlandsiberia]

On YouTube I followed a couple in a van in Canada who lived in it full time with no insulation . They said after they sprayed the entire interior with truck bed liner they never had condensation.

As I'll be in no-build situation, for both cargo trailer and truck stand-up camper shell, insulation is something I wonder about. Got to have some but can not permanently attach anything, plus I'm chemically sensitive and would not use glues or spray foam anyway.
Thinking of hanging it using aluminum insulating tape, something like thinsulate or bubble wrap with foil type.

 

[maki2]

As I'll be in no-build situation, for both cargo trailer and truck stand-up camper shell, insulation is something I wonder about. Got to have some but can not permanently attach anything, plus I'm chemically sensitive and would not use glues or spray foam anyway.
Thinking of hanging it using aluminum tape, something like thinsulate or bubble wrap with foil type.

3M has a new contact spray adhesive Super 94 that is certified for safe use in schools around chemically sensitive children. It has very minimal odors and off gassing. I do not think it is yet available in stores but it can be ordered from Amazon. It has a great advantage of 60 minutes of open time and can be repositioned after contact for up to 15 minutes. As with any spray you should wear a properly fit, cartridge respirator while applying the adhesive.

If you are in a warm sunny area the heat buildup inside a metal cargo trailer will quickly bake off-gassing chemicals out of materials used in a build interior. That is a huge advantage for chemically sensitive individuals. It is not the same kind of environment as a house situation. It is basically a very large oven when it comes to rapidly baking out the VOCs and other things that bother chemically sensitive individuals.