Cargo Trailer Conversion - I hope

[DBinMI]

Hello all.

Background: I had a 4x4 P/U and a couple of years ago, I bought a modest pop-up camper, which I've actually used once, and have been rethinking since I discovered the amount of work involved with it. (I travel with a handicapped adult who cannot help with setup/tear down, and I'm no longer a spring chicken. Oops. ) Then I complicated matters by buying a newer vehicle (self-defense; the P/U was not going to make it much longer) which is only rated to tow 2000 pounds, and the camper weighs 1875 without any of my gear. Double Ooops.

Never one to take reversals tamely, I have decided to see if I could trick out my 5 x 8 cargo trailer as a camper, but interchangeably so: aside from wanting to add options for plugging in at campgrounds, and some other basic features like ventilation, the fixtures I am choosing will be light and small enough to easily move in and out when I want to use it to haul stuff. If I do it right, I will have a small, pull-behind camper, somewhat larger than a teardrop, with nearly all the necessities of life on the road. Takes a bit of thought. I am also looking for a way to make the entry more secure: it's a swing-out rear door with only an external latch; I get the heebie-jeebies considering being trapped within, so I'm trying to find a way to either add a side door (which will subtract significantly from usable wall space) or to add a regular RV door to the back door. Worst part is that I live in the "great white North", so nothing much is going to move until April.

I have my work cut out for me but it's kind of exciting to plan it.

I hope to be able to come here to get masses of good advice.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Hello and welcome, DB.

A bare bones 5x8 cargo trailer when empty should be somewhere around 900 pounds. So that leaves you with the ability to add about 1000 pounds of upgrades and provisions.

Dont get ahead of yourself tho...think about insulation, windows, doors, and ventilation since these are easy to add before the interior upgrade begins, and not so easy afterwards.

If it has only one door opening now, that's the way I would leave it, and upgrade or modify that door. An 8 foot box length does not leave you with much room for another door, and even if you DO add another door on the side, you will need to heavily reinforce the framing to accommodate the new door, and this will add even MORE weight, which you dont really need at this point.

For most DIY conversions, the heaviest items we add are house batteries, and water storage, with fuel for heating and cooking coming in probably at third place. These can easily add up to several hundred pounds, so you will probably need to keep your total interior build-out to 500 pounds, or less.

Remember the pickup bed can be used to carry some of the heavy stuff, such as water jugs or propane tanks, but planning all of this will be an integral part of your build.

Good luck DB.

Others here will surely add to the discussion, and please keep us updated on your progress.

 

[DBinMI]

Hello and welcome, DB.

A bare bones 5x8 cargo trailer when empty should be somewhere around 900 pounds. So that leaves you with the ability to add about 1000 pounds of upgrades and provisions.

Dont get ahead of yourself tho...think about insulation, windows, doors, and ventilation since these are easy to add before the interior upgrade begins, and not so easy afterwards.

If it has only one door opening now, that's the way I would leave it, and upgrade or modify that door. An 8 foot box length does not leave you with much room for another door, and even if you DO add another door on the side, you will need to heavily reinforce the framing to accommodate the new door, and this will add even MORE weight, which you dont really need at this point.

For most DIY conversions, the heaviest items we add are house batteries, and water storage, with fuel for heating and cooking coming in probably at third place. These can easily add up to several hundred pounds, so you will probably need to keep your total interior build-out to 500 pounds, or less.

Remember the pickup bed can be used to carry some of the heavy stuff, such as water jugs or propane tanks, but planning all of this will be an integral part of your build.

Good luck DB.

Others here will surely add to the discussion, and please keep us updated on your progress.

Hi tx.
Thanks for your input. Since I'm not planning to gut it down to the framework, I won't have a lot of room to spare for insulation. I have read that insulating/thermal paint is a wonder invention, so I'm planning to try that, which will hopefully also add some vapor protection. The door I would prefer to add would be in the center of the back door, so that I can leave it latched when using the unit for camping, while accessing the interior via an integrated RV-style door. I don't know if that is possible. I talked to a guy today who does this sort of thing as his business, and he was really trying to talk me into a roof vent - which I am resisting simply because of the amount of snow we get, and the trailer is not terribly accessible in winter. Still, practical considerations such as feasibility and funding

When I first started thinking about this, it was with the plan of sleeping in the back of my Subaru Ascent, and using the trailer for a living room/kitchen/privacy area. As I progress, I find that I might be able to also sleep in the trailer, given judicious selection of furnishings. The Ascent might carry some stuff inside or on its roof, but I did have to retire the pickup truck. I wasn't really planning on carrying much water around, perhaps a gallon for little washups and another gallon for drinking/cooking; I know that each gallon weighs about 8.3 pounds, and weight is a primary consideration. I don't plan to use anything except electricity for cooking, so I won't have to worry about the weight of a propane tank. Until I figure out what works best, I probably am going to only be using things like hot plates, microwaves, other small electrical appliances. (I can actually do quite a lot with a hot plate and an electric frying pan!) The biggest thing I need to worry about there is getting an electric hookup mounted so I can plug into shore power. Not sure at this point whether I need 20a or 30a, or exactly what sort of panel I might need (I did buy a converter panel last year in case I ever needed to replace the one in the popup, but again, I'm really pretty new at all this and I'm not even sure that would be the right thing for my new application.)

Anyway, I appreciate your feedback. Feel free to offer more, anytime!

 

[bullfrog !]

Exactly what is your tow vehicle and what is the inside height of the trailer and it’s axle weight capacity? You mentioned you travel with a handicapped adult, do they require any medical equipment such as a wheel chair or breathing apparatus? How tall are you? My wife and I camped out of a 7’ wide x 7’ long x 6’ tall home built camper that weighed a little over 1,200 lbs. We pulled it with a 2013 Toyota Tacoma 2.7 liter 4 cylinder manual transmission 4x4. It was hard on the truck as top speed was about 60 mph on flat ground ( mostly due to the 49 square feet of wind resistance I believe ) and lost about 6 or 7 miles per gallon. If you have the trailer already I would highly recommend you load it with a couple cheap 55 gallon barrels of water and pull it around on back roads and the freeway for a few hours before proceeding. If you haven’t gotten the trailer yet rent a U-Haul that size. A square drop camper is simply a box on a utility trailer and easy to build out of light weight insulation foam as is described in the web site tnttt.com. and in fact they have a large forum on building out cargo trailers as well so check them out. Welcome to the forum!

 

[DBinMI]

Exactly what is your tow vehicle and what is the inside height of the trailer and it’s axle weight capacity? You mentioned you travel with a handicapped adult, do they require any medical equipment such as a wheel chair or breathing apparatus? How tall are you? My wife and I camped out of a 7’ wide x 7’ long x 6’ tall home built camper that weighed a little over 1,200 lbs. We pulled it with a 2013 Toyota Tacoma 2.7 liter 4 cylinder manual transmission 4x4. It was hard on the truck as top speed was about 60 mph on flat ground ( mostly due to the 49 square feet of wind resistance I believe ) and lost about 6 or 7 miles per gallon. If you have the trailer already I would highly recommend you load it with a couple cheap 55 gallon barrels of water and pull it around on back roads and the freeway for a few hours before proceeding. If you haven’t gotten the trailer yet rent a U-Haul that size. A square drop camper is simply a box on a utility trailer and easy to build out of light weight insulation foam as is described in the web site tnttt.com. and in fact they have a large forum on building out cargo trailers as well so check them out.

Tow vehicle is 2021 Subaru Ascent Base. It has a lineartronic transmission, which is a great innovation for fuel economy and efficiency; not so much on the robustness side for towing, etc. I'm working on adding an auxiliary transmission oil cooler, which should provide a little wiggle room in performance and endurance, but I'm not going to push it too far beyond specs. Inside height of trailer is probably about 5', so we might have to stoop a bit; my son is 5'5" and I'm 5'4". His handicap is cognitive, so he doesn't require any specialized equipment. I've actually had the trailer for a couple of years and have towed it around with various loads, but that was using my 4x4 P/U. That box would be a good suggestion for someone else, and I actually thought about doing something like that. My construction skills are shaky at best, though, and I know my limitations in that area, so I'm glad I have this option to play around with.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^Still look at tnttt.com as their cargo trailer conversion forum is one of the most complete around. Something I saw a while back was a cargo compartment door the allowed a small custom built slide out on the curb side of the cargo trailer or van for your feet so you could sleep crosswise conserving interior space substantially.

 

[Carla618]

Welcome DB

 

[mattvei]

Instead of a hot plate look into an induction cooktop. Better solution in my opinion

 

[quilting22]

Hello and welcome, DB.

A bare bones 5x8 cargo trailer when empty should be somewhere around 900 pounds. So that leaves you with the ability to add about 1000 pounds of upgrades and provisions.

Dont get ahead of yourself tho...think about insulation, windows, doors, and ventilation since these are easy to add before the interior upgrade begins, and not so easy afterwards.

If it has only one door opening now, that's the way I would leave it, and upgrade or modify that door. An 8 foot box length does not leave you with much room for another door, and even if you DO add another door on the side, you will need to heavily reinforce the framing to accommodate the new door, and this will add even MORE weight, which you dont really need at this point.

For most DIY conversions, the heaviest items we add are house batteries, and water storage, with fuel for heating and cooking coming in probably at third place. These can easily add up to several hundred pounds, so you will probably need to keep your total interior build-out to 500 pounds, or less.

Remember the pickup bed can be used to carry some of the heavy stuff, such as water jugs or propane tanks, but planning all of this will be an integral part of your build.

Good luck DB.

Others here will surely add to the discussion, and please keep us updated on your progress.

Great info.

 

[Gr8ful]

You could make fold down beds in the trailer so they are out of your way unless sleeping. As for the door make it swing in & use the U brackets you drop a 2x4 in at nighr so it can't be kicked in. I'm SW of Kalamazoo about 30 miles from Elkhart Indiana where there are a dozen or so RV Surplus stores. If you can spare the weight you could make a light weight V nose front on the hitch to make it more aerodynamic & store very lightweight bulky items. Welcome & Good Luck!

 

[Gr8ful]

These may help security as they are cheap, charge themselves, are motion activated soit alerts you & the intruder. I bought some last year & offered to buy 8 more for $6 ea shipped on Ebay.

CLAONER Solar Power 128 LED Lights PIR Motion Sensor Outdoor Security Lamp Wall​

3000lm ✔ 270°Lighting angle ✔ 3 Working Mode ✔BRIGHTEST

 

[LargeMarge]

keyword:
* "...with nearly all the necessities of life on the road..."
.
[grabs my 'concerned, but hopefully helpful' hat]
.
a)
I get the impression you two adults are considering going full-time live-aboard?
And you live in a harsh weather zone?
.
5 x 8 with a 5' ceiling... before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the floor and ceiling, before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the walls?
Suddenly, the usable interior is a squidgen over 4' wide, with a vertical height of slightly more than four feet?
.
How realistic is this?
.
Unless you have a extensive Real-World camping experience and plan on extending your quarters every night by setting-up a tent...
...("I travel with a handicapped adult who cannot help with setup/tear down, and I'm no longer a spring chicken.")...
...plus renting a mini-storage unit for seasonal clothing and spares, you need a much bigger interior:
* Two adults in a space smaller than THE SIZE OF OUR BED in our ExpeditionVehicle?
* Full-time live-aboard, hunched under a 5'/1.5m ceiling?
* Two beds, plus galley, plus hygiene facilities, plus food and water, plus wardrobe, plus entertainment?
* Plugging-in your electric heater, relying on the electric grid during a blizzard... during the period of the highest likelihood of grid failure?
[le sigh]
.
Suggestions:
1) using cardboard, build full-size mock-ups of your built-in furniture for a visual idea of fit and access (and interference).
Some home-builders use masking tape on a garage floor (a sidewalk or parking-lot could work, too) for a template.
While that two-dimension flat 'drawing' can work for some builders, I prefer working with a full-size three-dimensional mock-up.
.
2) Tow your trailer to a welder-fabricator.
Those geniuses (with a tetch of lunacy) are accustomed to odd-ball requests, accustomed to working with strange equipment... and above all, accustomed to fiddling with stuff to make it work.
.
Semi-retired welder-fabricator here.
.
If your budget allows this latitude, I would:
* FIRST -- design my interior, then...
* SECOND -- build my exterior to fit.
.
Example :
While full-time live-aboard on a 42'/13m sailboat, we constantly designed our ideal live-aboard.
We honestly truly believe a coastal cruiser of 80'/24m is about right for two adults.
Off-shore (getting out of the 'snow' zone and leaving the electric grid behind), add at least another 12'/4m.
.
.
b)
We are founding members of the No! Holes! In! The! Roof! club, so we like that part of your plan.

 

[LargeMarge]

Instead of a hot plate[,] look into an induction cooktop. Better solution in my opinion

.
2003, we built our ExpeditionVehicle.
For about fifteen years, we used our three induction hot-plates.
After cooking, a quick wipe, and they store back into their cubbies.
.
These days, with our tired battery bank and our staunch refusal to own/operate/maintain a genset, we cook with a Coleman propane two-burner camp-stove.
.
We also heat water on the Coleman for showers using our Gizmo, a Craftsman 20v garden-sprayer.
.
Our introduction with plenty of portraits, plus our reasons for our decisions:
https://vanlivingforum.com/threads/expeditionvehicle-build.44908/#post-576110.
Our introduction has two sections describing our shower Gizmo.
We honestly truly believe an afternoon shower each day makes all the difference between comfort and 'roughing' it.

 

[RonDean]

I've been "almost" exactly in your spot a time or two. IE: Converting a cargo trailer and having a tow vehicle with less-than-optimal tow capacity. So, I know it can be done.

My advice is to put your air exchange at the top of your priority list. By that, I mean, consider the following: an uninsulated and unvented box is going to cause no end of problems. You won't have to worry about possible leaks because just the 2 of you spending time inside it will produce enough moisture with nowhere to go that it will seem like you have multiple leaks. It doesn't have to be a roof vent - put one in the side if you prefer (two is actually better) and use a small battery powered fan to move the air. Insulation may seem like a hassle, but the better you insulate now the happier you will be later. And that's not even considering the comfort level cold or hot outside temps might create. The best thing I ever did was to insulate and vent my builds.

You don't have to over-build though. It all depends on how long at a stretch you are planning to use it. A full timer has different requirements than a weekender. And if you are planning to boondock or use parks with water/electricity/toilets is a also big factor. With your tow vehicle I would guard against overloading the CTC. For instance, water and L-Acid batteries can be heavy. And whatever you put in the CTC, watch your weight distribution.

Good Luck. Better planning now means fewer regrets later.

 

[eDJ_]

Welcome to the Van Living Forum TB. Lots of good information and people here.

 

[NomadLife.wiki]

To keep your weight down, check out the "foam bones" cabinetry on youtube by user NØMAD. You can make structures in your cargo trailer that weigh less than wood but are still strong enough.

 

[Carla618]

keyword:
* "...with nearly all the necessities of life on the road..."
.
[grabs my 'concerned, but hopefully helpful' hat]
.
a)
I get the impression you two adults are considering going full-time live-aboard?
And you live in a harsh weather zone?
.
5 x 8 with a 5' ceiling... before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the floor and ceiling, before adding a couple-three inches of insulation to the walls?
Suddenly, the usable interior is a squidgen over 4' wide, with a vertical height of slightly more than four feet?
.
How realistic is this?

They posted:

Since I'm not planning to gut it down to the framework, I won't have a lot of room to spare for insulation. I have read that insulating/thermal paint is a wonder invention, so I'm planning to try that, which will hopefully also add some vapor protection.

 

[calico]

I recently began to work on laying out my short bed truck to do 2-3 day getaways. As a result of several surgeries and, now, physical limitations, I focused on two things: Portable items, and lightweight. Here are a few pictures just to give you some ideas.
I have a Bluetti power station (that, admittedly, is very heavy - 62lbs) that will power all of my needs, along with a portable fridge. I also intend to store a microwave above the power station, and a tv on the same shelf
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/re...y-2-shelf-kit-with-27-posts/460EB1460K22.html
(these come in various sizes and finishes, and easily break down for removal and storage).
As you can see, I also have several lightweight plastic drawers from Walmart that will store everything I need.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilit...27350?fulfillmentIntent=In-store&athbdg=L1102
Also, these come in various sizes and colors.
You mentioned you and your son sharing the trailer. These might be helpful.
http://www.discobed.com/cots/kid-o-bunk-red-with-organizers/
Another tip: As much as possible, carry items that will have multiple uses to limit what you have to carry.

 

[Gr8ful]

For insulation I'd use 1" ISO Bd R7 or you'll have condensation problems.

 

[Carla618]

For insulation I'd use 1" ISO Bd R7 or you'll have condensation problems.

On YouTube I followed a couple in a van in Canada who lived in it full time with no insulation . They said after they sprayed the entire interior with truck bed liner they never had condensation.