buying land to make a new truly free place

[Motrukdriver]

Take a look at this one...

https://mohave.craigslist.org/reo/d/4-acres-with-camper/6449350029.html

 

[Zoomyn]

If you want your name to be remembered half-of-forever by those you are fondest of, simply own an undivided rural property with someone not family, place your share into a trust to protect it and then die. Oh, have no fear, the time & costs to survey and partition the land plus defining and getting approval for ingress/egress access under modernized guidelines will be spread across a couple of generations. Yes, even (insert name here) would be remembered for a long, long time.

^^ Seen that happen, 40 years past and it's still in limbo. Be very very careful, as gsfish noted in their above post!!

 

[Charlotte's Web]

"...simply own an undivided rural property with someone not family, place your share into a trust to protect it and then die."

An idea possibly worth consideration.  Must remember to run that one by
my attorney Bernie.

 

[John61CT]

Yes not a great situation.

Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Charlotte's Web]

Yes not a great situation.  Don't ask me how I know.

OK, John.  I won't ask.  (!)
But all spoofing aside, I take your comment seriously.
I trust you.

:angel: Charlotte

 

[user 13531]

Looks like Nye County, Nevada does allow private property owners to have multiple RV's for full time property residents. I'm watching LivePD on A&E and they just got a call to respond to drunk, disorderly, theft and eviction issues on a private property filled with individual vans, tents, RV's, etc... They each have small chain link fenced areas and pay $200 per month for same. By the looks of the property, its dry camping...

 

[C-Cat]

Looks like Nye County, Nevada does allow private property owners to have multiple RV's for full time property residents. I'm watching LivePD on A&E and they just got a call to respond to drunk, disorderly, theft and eviction issues on a private property filled with individual vans, tents, RV's, etc... They each have small chain link fenced areas and pay $200 per month for same. By the looks of the property, its dry camping...

Oh that sounds just wonderful... where do I sign up? Not!

 

[Annie W]

eroshan
You struck the nail exactly on the head with your obsevation about septic systems.  I own 10 acres in Wyoming where I spend my summers.  My daughter lives on the property fulltime.  Even though there are zero rules in this county outside incorporated areas the state is VERY strict about drinking wells and septic disposal.  All people located on the property are sized into the septic system design.  For an example a family of four will spend around 10 grand for permits, inspections and construction of said "shit hole". 
You could get around the septic issue buy using outhouses, but that can be nasty for a large amount of people.  I would say "septic systems " will be the biggest hurdle to attempting this.  Ask peeps that have had mining claims where they had the most trouble with the government,  most will say waste disposal.
--

Interesting. - But wonder how long ? the county would allow an Outhouse, & for how many people ?
Total agreement re "septic system"  , and next  county regulations  :huh: There's quite the story behind this one,

that could easily have a good outcome, if only I knew the best way forward...

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I think Cammalu hit it on the head, you go into this lifestyle to get away from all the bureaucracy of society, why re invent the wheel and do it again......except this time not only do you have government to deal with as far as permits and zoning and everything else that goes with that, you have 25 friends and strangers that all have to agree on things.

I owned a a waterfront property with 9 family members for two years. Very close and get along very well family members. It was still a very long two years. IMO, there is only one way to own property and that is by yourself. If you want to open it up to others than by all means, but there has to be one and only one person with all the say.

 

[Annie W]

I owned waterfront property with 9 family members for two years.  Very close and get along very well family members.  It was still a very long two years.  IMO, there is only one way to own property and that is by yourself.  If you want to open it up to others than by all means, but there has to be one and only one person with all the say.

I think it depends.
Prolly risky to admit this here, but for years open my heart, & home, & acres freely because
(tho badly burnt repeatedly for ages), the essence of ones' being is sharing...
iow leaves 1 vulnerable. In that case, it might be best to have group-Consensus...
What do you think?

 

[Annie W]

One issue is space (without too many regulations about it), another is the money to get a space, and how to maintain the space.
And options of how to manage this, has already been mentioned in this thread.

But once people gather, and community happens, then there will be a need to deal with people, and all the ideas they tend to get into their heads.
99% of people tend to know how to behave, so everyone else can cope with their presence,

but there will always be that 1% who can not.  And they will typically end up ruining it for everyone else.
Or at least it will be quite the headache to find ways to deal with them. 
So some kind of system, of how to deal with behavior issues, personal boundaries, direction of the community, common projects or needs,  and misunderstandings or conflict, and more..., needs to be in place, if one embarks on creating a space for community.  

The most common systems involve creating some kind of hierarchy where decisions can be made (and if need be, also be enforced).
So how to manage all of this, and still keep as free as possible? 
And to do it with the absolute minimum of overhead or administration?

Agreed, 98% of people do know how to behave. Most even actively contribute making improvements...

Then again, the minority is illiterate re "improvements" that cause the snafu...
1. "There was so much excess around here, that i gave ...(xyz) away" (for drug $$).
+
Downed fence: "c'mon, that post just needed a little nudge. (& liquor-store needed $)
+
after Insulation replaced: "needed more room for storage", so driveway needs insulation??
+
after Roof replaced: "well to get best reception, got 1 dish on all 4 sides" <--- WHAT?!? (no tv since 80's)
+
the orchard ? "downed the trees, so you can plant new orchard" - Oi vey!
+
the pumphouse/shed: "tore 1/2 down, as needs to be rebuilt bigger" - Um, not in December.
+
the fire... wait' til u hear this "burnBarrel (used as ashtray) on new deck" - both Illegal ! what in hell !!!!
+
the forest: "Logging co. & neighboring business struck a deal" - oh really ??
+
now to Septic: Management said you wanted it pumped, so jumped on shovel to make sure it's the right lid. Good reason to
get whole system REPLACED ------ how to get $23,000 plus ?

Obviously only a few things mentioned, but you get the idea.

 

[Technomad]

. I now consider land ownership to be another way for the State to gain leverage over people.  I used to think land meant freedom;  now I see it as another shackle to be cast off.

These are contributing factors to my personal secession and plans for vanlife retirement.

Preach it, Brother! Secession is a good term for what I’m doing as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[user 13531]

Annie in post #53...

Agreed, that's why real world housing communities have HOA's or at least basic CC&R's.. It's not to control the 99% but rather the 1% who will crap in the front yard, let their aggressive dogs eat the neighbor children and paint their house pink polka dot...

 

[Annie W]

Annie in post #53...

Agreed, that's why real world housing communities have HOA's or at least basic CC&R's.. It's not to control the 99% but rather the 1% who will crap in the front yard, let their aggressive dogs eat the neighbor children and paint their house pink polka dot...

re "real world housing communities": How are Rural communities (each of 5 acres & more) not "real world" ?

 

[John61CT]

He's just saying there needs to be enforcement of rules, not unrealistic idealism

 

[user 13531]

Has Scar with Honey's Park commented in this thread? He's got a somewhat similar property setup going on. Maybe he's got some answers for many of these legal, zoning and or conditional use property issues...

The following link is for Honey's Park website. Not sure if this link will adversely effect limited internet data use plans..

http://honeyspark.webs.com/

 

[longing4nature]

I live on 3 acres of land (family property) in a rural county and fully intended to retire there. 

After being hands-off for 97 years, this little village of 700 people has begun taxing, spending and interfering like their big city brethren.   Must be on the grid.  Must get permission to put a trailer on your own land, and it cannot be more than 10 years old (!!!). Police department has two new vehicles, which is one more than the number of police officers.  Code enforcement has a new vehicle.  Code enforcement, in a tiny, poor hamlet where the average property value (house and land) is less than $50,000.    The water department (two people) has a new vehicle.  We built a children's playground (~60k) which is unused because kids have land to play on in their own ^&$# back yards.

I attended every city and county council meeting until my new work schedule ruled that out.   I raised these concerns regularly and was patted on the head.  I tell you all this because if it happened in my "zero stop lights" town it can happen anywhere.

Also, it's hard to believe one owns paid off  real property when the State can seize it for not paying yearly tribute or if they claim they found a pot plant. I now consider land ownership to be another way for the State to gain leverage over people.  I used to think land meant freedom;  now I see it as another shackle to be cast off.

These are contributing factors to my personal secession and plans for vanlife retirement.

That's terrible.  I too always thought that having a plot of land meant freedom.  I have been reading a lot about land purchase lately and to me it is one of the most complex things to purchase.  And now I'm guessing, after many people set up off-grid homes, the government will come in and change laws and people may loose their land.  It's kind of like the whole marijuana thing.  Some states okay it and then someone has a farm and is doing well and then boom, here come the feds to take it all away.  More and more, day by day, we are all being pushed off our land.  And yes, Ownership is an illusion.  You can pay off your property but once again government can step in and take it all away.  I am now studying what I call "out of the box law" and how people can legally fight the system.  I hope to learn more and spread the knowledge.  Bottom line, things that are too complex are evil and things that are simple = freedom.

 

[longing4nature]

I have thought of something similar but only owning the property myself or putting it into a trust but I am not sure how a trust works. Check out ecovillages online and you will find that they own hundreds of acres in trusts and I'm not sure what the advantages and disadvantages are to this. I have found that ecovillages are expensive and I would not be able to afford living in one. It just comes back to living in another government model controlled society. Living off grid or living in ecovillages would be the next step up or down, how ever you would view it, from living in a vehicle. Lets face it, we can't be nomads forever, can we? Will we all be living in our vehicles and driving at the age of 90 or 100? I don't think I want to be driving then which means I will have to be living off the land somewhere. There has to be an inexpensive place to live. It's apparent that our system in the U.S. is designed to snuff out the poor. People are now arrested for feeding the homeless. What have we become? Many of us may have to stop living our lives and deal with this battle head on before it gets worse. As I mentioned above, many are sharing the legal loopholes and the lies we were told about laws and the courts and how we have been fooled, all for profits.

 

[DannyB1954]

You would end up with the same type of people as slab city. Pretty soon it would be a wrecking yard of broke down vehicles and trash. How are you going to kick people off of land that they own? someone might want pet pigs. You would have to have so many rules that nobody would want to live there.
You would have to have an income requirement or half of the people would be trying to leach off of the other half.

 

[John61CT]

There is no freedom in poverty.

The trust structures are like corporations, controlled by a board.

HOA type rules are inevitable, stricter than any zoning.

Freedom comes from having money, when things get too bad in one place, sell up and move somewhere else.

Or just rent avoid the hassles.

Or keep van dwelling until you calk it out in the bush somewhere.

Real freedom is multiple skillsets, evolving and kept up to date, so covering your monthly expenses can be done in a minimum of time and without taking too much attention.

Not something taught in our formal education.