Building solar setup around a toaster oven?

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Pronk

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I need to be able to run a toaster oven at least a few days a week. I'm a sculptor that works in polymer clay and the only way I will be able to cure the clay on the road is in one (it's the best way to do it anyway). This is how I will be making my money.

The lowest wattage toaster oven I've been able to find is 300. I need to be able to use it for around 10-30 minutes at a time depending on what I'm making.

So this is the setup I had in mind

200 watts of solar
400 watt inverter
40 or 50 ah sealed battery.

Mind you I know nothing about any of this and I picked those based on what I have been reading here. My budget for the complete solar setup is 500$ but I should be able to spend a little more if I have to.


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Since it's your way of making a living and you're working within a budget, maybe consider forgoing the solar for right now and picking up one of the whisper quiet generators.

Honda Eu1000i's run in the $700 range I believe and you'd be able to run a larger toaster oven as often as you need it with it. You'll have to shop around to find a good price because from what I have just been reading, Honda is making everyone advertise MAP and from what I've read you'll need to do it in person because authorized dealers only offer in person lower pricing...that sucks big time!!

Solar is nice but in the end a lot of us still need a battery charger and a generator to cya when the sun isn't doing it's job. Both of which would have to be ON TOP of your budget.
 
A lot of electronics have a startup surge that can be 3-4x the wattage. You'd want a 1200 watt inverter just to be safe. A lower wattage might pop the inverter fuse every time you turned the toaster on.
 
I wonder if there's a way to bake clay in a solar oven? Might be another option at least for sunny days. Seems that DIY solar ovens don't cost much to make either. Just an idea from someone who's curious.
 
You'll pull 20 amps minimum at every use and those tiny batteries will be dead in a very short time. I'd recommend a minimum of 120 ah battery and 2 golf carts would be better. A pair of AGMs alone will be $500 or more.
Bob
 
I am glad you did the math Bob. I would say 2 GC as a minimum. Pronk are you going to run anything else from the battery? using electricity to heat anything is not very efficient. I am curious as to why an electric oven is better then a gas oven or solar for that matter? highdesertranger
 
Thanks for the advise guys. I'm dumb, I did know that I would need higher capacity batteries, not sure why I thought 40 ah would be enough lol.

I am looking into other ways to cure the clay. It needs to bake at a stable 225 degrees for at least 10 minutes per 1/4th inch in order to cure properly. I will look into gas or propane ovens. I already was going to use propane just for cooking when I can't build a fire.

My other power needs are typical, I just have a cell phone, a laptop, and maybe a couple of led lights. I plan on rationing my power and I am ok with not being able to charge things every day.


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I use two different solar ovens. They are not easy to control the temperature, they don't all obtain the highest heat and the deeper ones can be different temperatures at the top and bottom. It takes multiple attempts to get use to them.

I can see setting up the solar to run the oven. Mine is designed around the ability to run a small air conditioner during peak hours without discharging the batteries. You would need 500 watts of solar to do the same with your 300 watt oven. Even so you want to have enough battery to support your need when the sun isn't co-operative and a alternate form of charging for when it isn't co-operative for too long.

Could you share the link to the 300 watt oven please?
 
Are you sure the lowest wattage oven you can find, can even get hot enough and be large enough for your requirements?
Do not know if a resistive load like a heating element presents anywhere near the start up surge of a compressor or electric motor.  My 200 watt lasko heater has no issues on my 400 pure sine wave watt inverter.  That is a 18 to 19 amp load on my battery.
 
Peukert steps in on larger loads, reducing battery capacity.

A new fully charged healthy 100Ah battery can produce 5 amps for 20 hours before considered 100% discharged at 10.5v.
This does not mean it can produce 20 amps for 5 hours.


  With a generous Peukert rating of 1.1, a new healthy fully charged 100 Ah battery only has ~75AH to deliver under a 19 amp load.
Under a 30 amp load, about 70AH capacity total.

Most inverters will cut out below a certain voltage say 11.5v or so.  Healthy AGMS can usually hold this voltage for longer than healthy flooded, all factors being equal..
Depleted AGMS  batteries really lust for higher amp recharges( 20+ amps per 100Ah agm battery, higher than what solar can do practically.  LOwer $$ agms say no more than 30 amps per100AH capacity, higher end like Odyssey, northstar, and Lifeline say no limit on charging amps, voltage limited to 14.4 to 14.7ish.
Lesser$$ AGM can likely take more than 30 amps per 100Ah capacity.  Monitor case temperature rise. Take notice if it approaches 110f. Terminate.  Especially before 120F.

I don't think you can really pull this off for long with less than one group 31 AGM battery, with short fat inverter cables.  And As much capacity and solar as you can budget thereafter.


Alternator with thick copper cabling, can satiate that AGM high amp lust, perhaps offset/negate inverter load.  A pair of quality 4 AWG jumper cables hooked from engine battery  with engine running, to Inverter battery terminals can easily produce 20 amps, and  perhaps significantly more.

  There will be a large spark hooking up jumper cables, so be aware of that on a hot recently charged or hard worked flooded battery.

Lesser capacity of battery can work,............. but for how long, what are the consequences if you need 30 minutes of oven but the inverter cuts out after 5 minutes?


The key to reliability for acceptable duration,  is replenishing the AGM battery quickly after use, and as full and as fast as possible as often as possible.  If one can't accomplish this often then they get to replace them more often  , flooded or AGM.  But agm cost more to kill prematurely and suffer without the high amp recharge more than cheaper flooded.
It's all a trade off.

A flooded group 31 can also accept high amperage, but the AGM would likely accept more from the alternator in the time the engine is running, with short fat copper joining them.

A group31 is the biggest somewhat easily available flooded 12v battery one can obtain at 13x6.75x9.25" tall. It weighs at least 57 Lbs, hopefully more, hopefully no less.  If less it is a starting battery, and will not tolerate many deeper cycles.
MOre capacity means more voltage held for longer before inverter can't support load.
AGMs can hold higher voltages  for longer than flooded batteries of the same capacity.

More solar means it can partially offset load and recharge faster.
More copper between alternator and depleted battery means much faster recharging to 80% Charged.
 80 to 100% is 3+ hours more at 14.4v, minimum.  Longer with less than 14.4v and longer when battery is older and has not seen a full charge in several cycles.  Sometimes this 'Longer', can take 10 hours, even at 14.4v.

If it does not get this 'longer', its useful capacity lifespan just got shorter.  Capacity Decline is then much more rapid.
More Copper between alternator and depleted battery which is powering inverter, means alternator can likely power entire load at idle, or at least much of it for as long as one cares to idle.

When doing this, Watch engine battery voltage  Hoping for 13.6v+, worry at 12.8v, and alternator temps should not be allowed to exceed 220f for long.  Have an IR temp gun?

If engine battery drops below 13.2v while idling and running inverter load, It is likely providing what the alternator cannot to support the inverters load.  So robbing engine battery to power the inverter's battery.  Better to keep engine battery bursting full, IMO.
The cooler the alternator is, the better.  Movement is good as higher alternator fan rpms and underhood air movement is increased.
So, it's all a trade off.


I'd see if the 300 watt oven can get hot enough and fit your needs on grid power.
If so, and you really wanted to refine how much energy you needed to power it:
http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html
But in general, you need more than 50AH of sealed battery, and more than just 100 watts of solar if the system is to have any reliability for any duration.
 
jimindenver said:
I use two different solar ovens. They are not easy to control the temperature, they don't all obtain the highest heat and the deeper ones can be different temperatures at the top and bottom. It takes multiple attempts to get use to them.

Phooey! :( I use some polymer clay stuff in jewelry-making. I was hoping. Maybe since it's so much smaller than sculpture it *could* work. I'll have to experiment with solar oven when I have one and get a chance.
 
I would either use a portable generator (my Honda 1000 runs my 900w toaster oven) or one of those magic chef camp ovens that run on propane.

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Toaster ovens are not noted for their temperature stability. A convection oven will have more uniform temperature. A low wattage oven will take longer to heat your item to the desired temperature and stay on more of the time to keep it there, so your energy savings might not be much. Some people use things (Pizza stones?) in their oven to help regulate and distribute the heat, but that will make the warmup longer.
 
Here's the toaster oven I found. Better Chef IM-269SB Toaster Oven Silver 300W 9 Liter W/Bake Pan & Wire Rack Home & Garden https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DJHEPMY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_L112xbWQ6M7BT

I'm glad I asked about this because now I'm thinking the propane oven is going to be my better bet. I will experiment with a solar oven and maybe even a pit oven. A common trick people use to regulate temp and to keep thin pieces from burning is to encase the sculpture in baking soda.

I'm already planning on working around days where I can't bake any clay. I tend to work in batches, and it can take me a couples of months to finish a sculpture as it is. So even if I'm only able to bake anything once a week it should work out.

Regardless, I think I will go with the flooded batteries. If I could have something around 200ah I should be set. Without having to worry about a toaster oven I don't see myself using a lot of power.

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anewbiewannabe said:
Phooey! :( I use some polymer clay stuff in jewelry-making. I was hoping. Maybe since it's so much smaller than sculpture it *could* work. I'll have to experiment with solar oven when I have one and get a chance.
I found this video you might find helpful. Seems like it works best for smaller pieces.

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Thanks, I appreciate it. :)  I'll have to check it out when I actually have internet access where videos will play.
 
I don't have a clue about curing clay, but if I can assume you are trying to drive water out, a propane oven might need some adjusting for time as the oven cavity basically turns into a steam box as propane produces a ton of water vapor.
 
Thank you for the link. One thing I noticed is there is no temperature dial, the upper dial just set which of the element work. Still might be good for toast though.
 
bcbullet said:
I don't have a clue about curing clay, but if I can assume you are trying to drive water out, a propane oven might need some adjusting for time as the oven cavity basically turns into a steam box as propane produces a ton of water vapor.
Polymer clay is oil based, it doesn't dry out on it's own. I don't know if steam will affect the curing or not, but thanks for the heads up.

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How about a toaster. I have 200 watts of solar . Is it possible to just run a toaster on that much wattage? Just doesn’t seem like a minute of electricity would use that much
 
toasters take longer than a minute. to find out exactly how much yours consumes put a Kill-a-watt meter on it and make toast.

making heat with electricity uses a lot of electricity it's very inefficient. you don't notice in your house because electricity is so cheap. on the road you are the power company.

remember you need to convert the 12v to 120v and as conversions are not 100% you will have loses there.

Kill-a-watt is a meter that measures electrical consumption @ 120 volts. then you need to do the math to figure out the amount of electricity at 12v.

bring the numbers here and we can help with the math.

highdesertranger
 
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