Best refrigeration methods

[CosmickGold]

Hi all!  My biggest question is "What's the best answer for refrigeration?"  I've been looking at options and they all seem to have serious short comings:

(1) LIVE WITHOUT IT:  From what I've read online, no refrigeration seems pretty hard.  Even hot-dogs sealed in their packages go bad if left out out at room temperature! So many foods have to be removed from the diet, it would not be healthy.
(2) 12v REFRIGERATOR: Kinda noisy, and SO expensive!  And requires repeated battery charging.
(3) SMALL 110v MODEL: Great low price; under $70 even. But requires a converter that can handle the startup surge (expensive), wasted battery power in the converter draining the batteries even more, and how do you keep them charged in the wilderness? Solar panels? Having enough panels would be way expensive too, not to mention them not working on cloudy days.
(4) SMALL PROPANE MODEL:  So far, a small propane frig seems the best choice since propane is cheap and lasts a very long time. But, you have to park your rig very level to avoid sediment from the refrigerator's pipes from clogging up it's cooling system. If that happens, you just have to throw the whole refrigerator away!
(5) ICE CHEST:  These are cheap, but having to go buy ice every couple of days is pretty impractical in the wilderness.

So what's really the best answer? Have I overlooked something?

 

[Almost There]

#2 - neither of mine are particularly noisy...less so than the frig in the apartment when I had it and definitely quieter than the fridge at my sons' house. Can I hear them running when they kick in, yes. Are they interrupting my peace and quiet or do they wake me in the night...nope!

How often one has to charge the battery depends on the size of the fridge, the amount of added insulation you add, the ambient air temperature as well as the size of the battery bank. Some people get 3 or 4 days out of their battery before needing to recharge it because they have a fairly large battery bank and a smaller refrigeration unit and are staying someplace with a moderate climate.

As to cost, maybe a little pricey, depending on your viewpoint. Less expensive than an RV fridge which is going to consume more power when on 12V (any time you're driving) AND then you have to add the cost of propane use over the life expectancy of the unit and the necessity of having to keep the vehicle parked fairly level.

 

[CosmickGold]

Thank you, Almost There.

You answered so well, and quickly too!

You explained #2 has some pleasant advantages (quiet, etc.).  But only 3-4 days even with good weather, a small frig, and big battery bank? Thank you for informing me on the limitation; I had not heard how long on a single charge before.  I want more than that.

Also, you said the propane refrigerator vehicle only needs to be "parked fairly level". I take it this means "exactness" is not necessary? So I'm still thinking that's the best choice for me.  Especially after reading this page that says, 

"[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]I am happy to tell you that running your RV's refrigerator on propane for 24 hours to get it cold will barely use any propane. In fact you can run your RV's fridge for several weeks before you will even see the propane gauge show any change."[/font]

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Hi all!  My biggest question is "What's the best answer for refrigeration?"  I've been looking at options and they all seem to have serious short comings:

(1) LIVE WITHOUT IT:  From what I've read online, no refrigeration seems pretty hard.  Even hot-dogs sealed in their packages go bad if left out out at room temperature! So many foods have to be removed from the diet, it would not be healthy.
People have gone without refrigerator for millennia.  You just have to find substitutes for perishable foods in your diet.

(2) 12v REFRIGERATOR: Kinda noisy, and SO expensive!  And requires repeated battery charging.
My Norcold is very quiet, in fact I cannot hear it unless I listen hard.  I could run it on 100 AH battery and 100W of solar, but I would need sun or driving every other day.

(3) SMALL 110v MODEL: Great low price; under $70 even. But requires a converter that can handle the startup surge (expensive), wasted battery power in the converter draining the batteries even more, and how do you keep them charged in the wilderness?  Solar panels? Having enough panels would be way expensive too, not to mention them not working on cloudy days.
I'm not convinced that the 'dorm room' refrigerators would stand up to washboard roads.  Jury is still out on if the more expensive ones can endure.  Energy efficiency is all over the map.
Solar is easily doable if you can count on sun most of the time.  If not you need a backup plan.  I run my rig on 200AH & 200W; usually at 100% by 1 PM daily and can go 3 days with no sun before 60% if I'm careful.

(4) SMALL PROPANE MODEL:  So far, a small propane frig seems the best choice since propane is cheap and lasts a very long time.  But, you have to park your rig very level to avoid sediment from the refrigerator's pipes from clogging up it's cooling system.  If that happens, you just have to throw the whole refrigerator away!
I know little about these.  Some people love them, for some they don't work well.

(5) ICE CHEST:  These are cheap, but having to go buy ice every couple of days is pretty impractical in the wilderness.
Ice is doable for 5+ days with very good insulation and not a lot of opening of cooler.  Problems with ice chest is keeping food below 38º and keeping food out of ice melt.   Dry ice can extend time and temperature problems and no meltwater.

So what's really the best answer? Have I overlooked something?
I routinely stay out for 2 weeks at a time, so a 12V refrigerator, house batteries, solar and alternator charging is the best solution for me (although I am looking at the 110V freezers some here are trying).

 

[lenny flank]

I have no fridge. But I mostly urban camp, so I can always get frozen food as I need it, and let Walmart take care of the whole "refrigeration" thingie for me.

I do have a small 9-quart cooler (that I lined inside with extra styrofoam insulation) which I use for storing leftovers overnight.

 

[lenny flank]

> [font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Problems with ice chest is keeping food below 38º and keeping food out of ice melt.   [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Suggestion: Place a smaller plastic tub inside the cooler, with a few inches of space all around. Fill the inner tub with ice, and pack your food around the outside in between the two walls. Ice melts in the tub, food doesn't float.[/font]

 

[frater secessus]

(2) 12v REFRIGERATOR: Kinda noisy, and SO expensive!  And requires repeated battery charging.
(3) SMALL 110v MODEL: Great low price; under $70 even. But requires a converter that can handle the startup surge (expensive), wasted battery power in the converter draining the batteries even more, and how do you keep them charged in the wilderness?  Solar panels? Having enough panels would be way expensive too, not to mention them not working on cloudy days.

All batteries require repeated charging, no matter what.

Trebor has a clever and inexpensive setup for running a 110v cube fridge off a small battery and 100w of solar.

200W is the usual solar config to run the basics + 12v fridge.  A 200w Renogy kit + wally world battery is about $500 right now.  A 200w kit + real deep cycle battery bank is about $700.  I recently did the math for a gentle intro to solar page I am struggling to write.  Distilling complex stuff to basics is usually challenging, but doing that with solar info is pushing the limits of my meager abilities.   :s

 

[CosmickGold]

I'm not being an advocate for propane refrigeration but it isn't necessary to keep the vehicle level, just the refrigerator. Just put the fridge on an adjustable base with a X/Y type level. Could even use wedges. Here is a picture of a piece of precision equipment that is used in a trailer and is mounted on an adjustable platform. Pretty simple, a couple screws and springs, two levels. Big picture is oriented correctly unlike the thumbnail.

Guy

Welcome to the group!

Great idea.  I'll definitely do that!  (...and I was worried about spending too much time hunting for a level parking space. Silly me.)

 

[CosmickGold]

"All batteries require repeated charging, no matter what."

Excellent point.  I'm now sold on the propane-only concept.

 

[CosmickGold]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Spaceman Spiff  wrote:  [/font]People have gone without refrigerator for millennia.  You just have to find substitutes for perishable foods in your diet.[/font]

I'll look into that.  Perhaps I'm too quick to give up on simplicity.  I like the idea of just having a battery that charges when I travel, and a small converter. I'd like to have no deen for solar, etc.  Sure would save a lot of bucks (and space).

 

[hugemoth]

Being vegetarian I don't have to preserve meat, eggs, milk, etc.. My camper has a 48 watt solar panel wired directly to a Coleman thermo-electric cooler so it runs any time the panel is in the sun. No battery involved. Works for me but has obvious limitations like not working when parked in the shade on a hot day, not working on cloudy warm days, etc.. The cooler itself is very well insulated so it keeps the heat out pretty well even when not being powered.

 

[highdesertranger]

little story. I boondock a lot, far from stores. I like to stay out for as long as possible. I did the ice chest thing for years because that's what we had. we could go about 1 week without needing ice this was even with ice chest with extra insulation added. we would even bury the ice chests, btw this worked the best. however it was still about 1 week. so unless snow was nearby we would need ice and a lot of times it would blow a day to get ice. it was killing me, I had to find another way.

12v refrigerators were just coming out but I didn't want to spend the money as they were very expensive. I thought there had to be a cheaper way.

so I tried those Peltier units. good thing we still had the ice chests with us. those didn't work at all. they didn't get cold enough and sucked power. in the trash.

then the propane RV refer. it worked ok but we had to have it cranked up pretty high so then instead of making ice runs we were making propane runs and carrying extra propane at least we could stretch out our time out to about 2 weeks. during times with no burn bans we would have plenty of propane but during burn bans we were going through propane like sh*t through a goose. in the trash.

next up dorm refers. all I can say is power hogs, uneven cooling, parts of the refer were freezing and parts were warm. could only go a couple of days before the batteries were depleted and we would have to start the truck. as a side note this was before I expanded my solar and batteries and had to run several things off my system. trash can.

I would like to point out that we still used our ice chest through all this, thank god we didn't through them out. now what to do.

finally broke down and bought a 12v refrigerator. OMG why didn't I do this to begin with. it worked great, sipped power, no warm and cold spots. didn't even put a dent in the batteries. went out a bought another. even running 2 of them was less power then the dorm fridge. why didn't I just buy one to begin with I would have saved all that money that I spent trying to save money. I have since bought another. so now I have three.

remember with a battery a solar panel and a 12v fridge once you make the initial investment you now have unlimited refrigeration for free. you never need to buy ice, or propane, or run to a store for them. highdesertranger

 

[dawnann7]

finally broke down and bought a 12v refrigerator.  OMG why didn't I do this to begin with.  it worked great,  sipped power,  no warm and cold spots.  didn't even put a dent in the batteries.

I'm sold. This saves me a lot of research. Can I ask which brand you landed on? I imagine there are good and bad 12v refrigerators out there. Thanks for the great post!

 

[WalkaboutTed]

"(1) LIVE WITHOUT IT: From what I've read online, no refrigeration seems pretty hard. Even hot-dogs sealed in their packages go bad if left out out at room temperature! So many foods have to be removed from the diet, it would not be healthy."

Been there, done that. But too much sodium in preserved foods and wastage of the fresh vegetables when they went bad in ambient temps inside the various vehicles over the decades. Also, I need COLD milk for my cereal, so the UHT milk (very expensive, too) won't do.


"(2) 12v REFRIGERATOR: Kinda noisy, and SO expensive! And requires repeated battery charging."

Not noisy to me. If I pay attention, I hear it quietly kick on, but I generally don't notice it, even if I'm camping in quiet areas. Expensive, yes, but so is going to the market for ice every few days at 11mpg and wear and tear on the vehicle. Also food wastage from floating around in the melt water or stuff going bad because it was sitting where the ice wasn't. Yes, I have a solar system, which I built around the fridge and my rice cooker. It's worth it to me not to have to plug in. I've not gone below 80% so far, even with multiple days of crap/no sun.

"(3) SMALL 110v MODEL: Great low price; under $70 even. But requires a converter that can handle the startup surge (expensive), wasted battery power in the converter draining the batteries even more, and how do you keep them charged in the wilderness? Solar panels? Having enough panels would be way expensive too, not to mention them not working on cloudy days."

I had one of those Peltier coolers. Crap (didn't work and killed the van battery way back when, before I knew better)and sent it to Goodwill. I never considered a regular 110v fridge, knowing that they are power hogs and I was going to be off the grid.


"(4) SMALL PROPANE MODEL: So far, a small propane frig seems the best choice since propane is cheap and lasts a very long time. But, you have to park your rig very level to avoid sediment from the refrigerator's pipes from clogging up it's cooling system. If that happens, you just have to throw the whole refrigerator away!"

I had one built in on my Aliner for several years. I'm one of those people who open the fridge 8-10+ times a day. It just couldn't keep up. Milk kept going bad on me. Also the "keep it level" requirement was a pain.


"(5) ICE CHEST: These are cheap, but having to go buy ice every couple of days is pretty impractical in the wilderness."

See my comment on the 12v fridges above as far as gasoline use, wear and tear on vehicle and food wastage.

I have a Truckfridge 4.6 cu ft upright (compressor 12v). I have ice and I can put 2 six packs of Klondike ice cream bars, in the freezer. It's big, but I don't have to reorganize it all the time, nor do I have to pull everything out to get to buried items. I like the fridge so much that Hubby is getting the same for his van.

Ted

 

[highdesertranger]

I have 3 of these,

https://www.engelcoolers.com/mr040f-u1.html

note, Engels are the ones people complain about making noise. I don't notice unless they are almost empty and only have a few aluminum cans in them. it's not the noise of the compressor it's the vibration of the unit and with the bare cans on the basket they do make noise. I took a piece of closed cell foam and laid it in the bottom of the beverage refer this worked great. highdesertranger

 

[Almost There]

And I have a pair of these:

https://www.whynter.com/product/whynter-65-quart-portable-fridge-freezer/

I can hear one of them kick on more than the other, possibly because one is sitting directly on the floor and the other is on a roll out shelf.

I don't have the problem that HDR has, no beer cans have ever sat in my fridge or freezer....  

I also keep them fairly full at all times. If there's room in my fridge unit it's because I need to go shopping...

 

[John61CT]

Actually, it appears all the compressor type 12V fridges are very similar in efficiency and reliability over a few years. Waeco/Dometic is OEM for many brands.

Paying more for an Engel (if the bit extra noise is OK), is only worth it for extra build quality and long-term longevity, can last for 2-3x as long.

Occasionally sales do come up, or if a real bargain on CL, saves $200+, grab it!

 

[Rainier70]

CosmickGold, what all do you want to put in a fridge?  Knowing that can help to make some decisions as to size, cooling ablity, etc.

HDRanger, I know that you are out in the desert with lots of sun, but I am still curious on the specs of your power source and batteries.  Thanks

 

[highdesertranger]

I have 175 watts of solar feeding two 12v marine/RV batteries. I run the refers and charge my lap top of this set up. I have no problem with power and have gone 1 week in cloudy rainy conditions, however we did get a couple of hours of sun everyday. highdesertranger

 

[CosmickGold]

I tried those Peltier units.  good thing we still had the ice chests with us.  those didn't work at all. they didn't get cold enough and sucked power.  in the trash.

Yeah.  Peltier units really are trash.  I discovered them through an add for a $17 Peltier element with fins, and a fan on both sides.  The add showed how it totally iced up in only 11 seconds, just from moisture in the air.  So of course I ordered one right away, intending to put it as the cooling element in a styrofoam ice chest.

I was so disappointed when I hooked it up.  It got wet from being cool in the air, but no ice (not really a lot of cool).

So then I researched it online through Google (as I should have from the start), and learned that (1) a Peltiers can only cool 18 degrees below it's surroundings.  Which means if the air around it is 90 degrees, your food can be cooled no lower than 78 degrees.  (Mmm.  I can already smell the meat spoiling!)  And (2) about them sucking power.... That's because they are only 2% efficient!  Meaning they expel 98 units of heat for every 2 units of cool they sent to your food!

I'm glad to hear the 12v compressors are cooling so well for you.  As for me, I'm going pure propane.  That's partly because I've decided to stay more simple....  no solar panels, no voltage controllers/chargers mounted on the wall, no gas generator, no expensive high-wattage converter (just a cheap 400w converter). Instead, just a battery that charges while I drive.