being a man and being politically correct or "Elephant in the room"

[tx2sturgis]

Where can I sign up for some sexual harassment?

I feel like I've been left out.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

It's something that all women have had to live with from time immemorial. I remember getting warnings from my mother "Never stand close enough to a man's car door where he could grab you". Even as a child, it was always a "game" to stay away from the funny uncle's or the neighbor's grabbing fingers. Harassment was always a fact of life, at work, school and even in the "safety" of home, from being a pre-pre-adolescent child. And if you were pretty, it was even more expected.

Just don't touch me. Don't tell me that you want to sleep with me. Just don't be creepy. Don't make suggestive remarks or ribauld jokes, then say "where's your sense of humour?".

I'm old, wrinkled and tired of it, but it doesn't end. Just last month I left a campground days early (for which I had prepaid) because a campground host thought it was okay to say that he thought "about having sex" with me. Ewwww! I just left because I want to go back there sometime when he won't be there. And if a woman complains, makes waves, the consequences can make things even more uncomfortable. It's just easier to walk away, just like I and every other woman have been doing for millennium-hopefully without being touched or assaulted.

I've come to the conclusion that I can't be more than nominally polite to men who are alone while vandwelling. Being my normal, outgoing self has already caused more than one uncomfortable moment, just in the last couple of months. I surmise that for some guys, they might be operating on the spaghetti principle "throw enough spaghetti on the wall and something will stick". That and the unlimited time make hunting "p***y" a sport for them.
Ted

 

[Blanch]

I just have to say this. Why can’t men ask? For instance ask “I’d like to kiss you”. It really is that simple. Having spent 57 years as a female I have been grabbed and groped and kissed by men who I had no interest in. If they had asked I would have said no. In these modern times people need to ask if contact is wanted. Why is that so difficult? It certainly shows respect.


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[Bohemian scout]

Just recently I was in the dressing room at JCPenney’s trying on bras. That’s in the women’s department, duh.... while I was looking in the mirror I saw a man peek down the long hallway of the dressing room and see me in the mirror that I was looking into. OK could’ve been a mistake he said he was looking for his wife, but then he did it again! I threw my clothes on as fast as possible went out there and confronted him. Yes his wife was in there, the very first one that has a door all the way from top to bottom where you can’t see them. Maybe she’s tired of being creeped out by him too. This happens to women all the time. That’s just one instance give me a minute and I can think of 100 more that have happened to me. I’m fed up and I’m not gonna take it any more!

 

[WanderingCanuck]

Yah i get it , but I can't lose sight of all the good guys that suffer from all the negative press. Your thoughts?

The Good: It'll do wonders for population control.

The Bad: Positive social interaction between men and women (or any odd combination thereof) just won't happen very much.

 

[dawnann7]

I just have to say this. Why can’t men ask? For instance ask “I’d like to kiss you”. It really is that simple.

And if she says no assume she means it. Full stop. No argument, no wheedling. Back off and change the subject.

 

[Bohemian scout]

I enjoy talking to the men who are good guys. It’s pretty easy to figure out right away if you’re talking to one or not. I know they’re out there, figured there be a few good men at the RTR. Looking forward to meeting some.

 

[Stargazer]

I can't figure out how to do the quote thing but Wagoneer stated he "can't lose sight of all the good guys that suffer from all the negative press".

Read/re-read WalkaboutTed's post above.  The number of women who could have written that is astounding.  That isn't from just a FEW men.  It's from MANY!  What can you Good Guys do?  Easy.  Let your male friends and family and acquaintances and even strangers on the street know you won't tolerate it!  Speak up!  Next time you're in a situation where you hear one of your buddies saying something inappropriate, let him have it!  Don't just sit there and laugh or ignore it.  If you hear of someone who has behaved poorly, gather up as many Good Guys as you can and confront him.  Trust me, if you do that you will have more female friends than you could count.

As for tx2sturgis "signing up for sexual harassment", I wonder how many here thought that was funny?  I see nobody has even commented on it yet.  Talk about the elephant in the room?  Where are all you Good Men??  Because if you were a person of color, would you sign up for the KKK to burn a cross in your yard?  Would you ask your employer to reduce your salary or fire you if you didn't play along?  If you were beaten and/or raped, would you ask law enforcement to ignore you and call you a liar or troublemaker?  Be careful what you wish for.  The tables are turning and all that the women have suffered from for thousands of years is now coming home to roost.

And yes, There are many good men out there.  But have you tolerated this in the not-so-good others?  Think about that.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Thanks, good reply...and yes there is an elephant in the room, very inappropriate comment tx2sturgis, not funny.

 

[Ballenxj]

I can't figure out how to do the quote thing but Wagoneer stated he "can't lose sight of all the good guys that suffer from all the negative press".

<--------->

And yes, There are many good men out there.  But have you tolerated this in the not-so-good others?  Think about that.

I consider myself a good guy, and have spoken up more than once in a very stern manner in defense of a woman. I always opened doors for them, etc. I would like to think they all felt safe around me. I never went after another mans wife or GF. That's not my character. I believe getting together with somebody has to be a mutual endeavor. I don't want to be with somebody that doesn't want to be with me, Period!
Having said that, I believe some, certainly not all, women have weaponized this situation, using it to their advantage to cherry pick and get their way. I won't argue this as I've seen it.
My answer? I just gave up, I don't care anymore.
I used to work in a Casino environment for quite a few years, and you might be amazed at how many women have grabbed my butt, or touched me in what is now considered an inappropriate manner. Did I report any of them? Hell no! I would just look at them and say behave.
Multiple times I have had women try to pick me up, only to find later that they were married. What, wait? I'm told by most women that men are the guilty parties almost exclusively? HOGWASH!
And some women even think that if you try and talk to them, you are trying to pick up on them? How narrow minded is that? No, I just had something to say that I thought she might have been interested in.
Before anybody tries to say I'm now a woman hater, zip it, that won't fly here as some of my best friends were women.
Where is all this leading? I don't know, but whatever it is, it ain't good.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Dang...nobody can take a joke anymore...

:dodgy:

It's just that being an old fart, it might be nice to have the occasionally flirty female attention...

I'll go crawl under a rock and pout.

(not)

 

[Bohemian scout]

It wasn’t a joke because it wasn’t funny....inappropriate.  Flirty female attention? How about good conversation with a friendly person.

 

[SondraRose]

Dang...nobody can take a joke anymore...)

Not a joking matter to most women I know, nor to me.

The difference between wanted and unwanted attention seems to have escaped you.  

In my opinion, flirting needs to be mutual and consensual.

Sexual harassment is unwanted and inappropriate attention.

 

[Bohemian scout]

Before anybody tries to say I'm now a woman hater, zip it, that won't fly here as some of my best friends were women.
Where is all this leading? I don't know, but whatever it is, it ain't good.

You don’t sound like a woman hater. You sound like a person who has been sexually harassed and didn’t appreciate it something women have had to deal with FOREVER!!!

 

[Ballenxj]

Um, I never considered it as sexual harassment as opposed to simply unwanted attention. I think there is too much of a hair trigger placed on sexual harassment allegations, and that is a big problem today.
I had been into photography for a while, and one of my brothers grown daughter asked if I would do a boudoir stye shoot with her. I told her absolutely not unless your Dad was also present! That killed that. These are the seemingly innocent things a guy now has to protect himself from. That, and I knew her mother was crazy. Did that rub off on her? I dunno, but was not about to take that chance.

 

[rm.w/aview]

 I think there is too much of a hair trigger placed on sexual harassment allegations, and that is a big problem today.

This is the street smarts that I alluded to earlier. There are things that need to be considered in every circumstance. The more that things are considered, the more behavior becomes considerate. Considerate behavior is at the root of much of this thread. The line above, "These are the seemingly innocent things a guy now has to protect himself from.", goes straight back to our OP & the opening comment.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I'm having a cold beer under this rock.

:dodgy:


There is a thread here about how some of us just don't look good naked anymore...and that's OK...its damn funny....but I make a joke about females not finding us old farts attractive...and doodoo hits the fan.

Sometimes humor over the internet just doesn't translate.

Maybe I should start a thread about THAT.

 

[Ballenxj]

Sometimes humor over the internet just doesn't translate

Haha! Not as well as you'd like it to sometimes. As an aside, I have noticed on some dating sites 60 plus year old women state the age range they are looking for as 35 to 55 sometimes? Now tell me once again about these predatory men? :dodgy:

 

[rm.w/aview]

There are times that I'll read something humorous here and blow coffee out my nose with laughter, and other times, well that didn't work. I agree that humor on the net, without the flow and spontaneity that a "live show" has, loses much and can definitely be received wrong. I've erased so many potential posts after proof reading, mainly because my in-person humor has an edge that doesn't translate well on the page. If I cross a line in person only those present will hammer me, then it goes away. Cross a line on the net, and the hammer gets passed around for quite awhile. I get ya man, I know humor when I read it. But even professional comedians will acknowledge my first sentence.
I should probably save this post for your thread on humor. It'll prolly take off like this one did.

 

[Ballenxj]

I see what Tex was trying to achieve, but I consider this a serious thread with serious answers expected. Attempts at humor aren't always received well by everybody in those type of threads...