Apartment fridge install

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"Have you worked out the way to hold the fridge in place yet?"

Not yet. I had been thinking about cleats to hold the bottom. The top will be a tight fit. I modified the shelf above and it's 1/2" above the fridge top. However, i like the cargo strap idea! It's easy and would be out of site. It also wouldn't be an all day project to dis-assemble if the need arrises.

It'll be a couple days before i can do more than glance at the cc readout. Too many irons in the fire.

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Sabatical said:
Not yet. I had been thinking about cleats to hold the bottom.

{snip}

However, i like the cargo strap idea! It's easy and would be out of site. It also wouldn't be an all day project to dis-assemble if the need arrises.

fridge_edited.jpg


This is the way I did it with a single cargo strap.

Elegant? Nope.

But strong, simple, cheap, and no one sees it anyway once the trim is in place. Easy to install and remove if you have room to operate the ratchet. If not, make up an "extender" length from the extra strap material you wont be using and arrange it so the ratchet is on top of the fridge if you have room there.

Be sure to put the eyebolts in some sturdy, solid wood. I used 1/4 inch eyebolts with a nice big fender washer and nut on the underside of the shelf.

If you want you can put a bit of rubber or cardboard padding under the top corners to keep from scuffing the paint on the fridge exterior.
 

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Sabatical said:
I noticed the other day that harbor freight has kill-a-watt meters in stock.

Thank You! I might have to look next time I go there. I hate waiting for stuff ordered on the net.
 
Looks like 54 ah of solar production today. The fridge and inverter are the only draw so that's the # i'll go by, at least until i get a kill-a-watt.

54ah is not a bad number. It was a warm and humid day. I was expecting 90-100. So far so good. I'll run it for a few more days to get an average and then check specific gravity on the batteries to see how they are fairing. I will run it a couple days with the kill-a-watt before shutting it off for a while. We won't need it for a few months so no sense putting extra cycles on the battery bank.

Somebody commented yesterday that they were surprised the 260w of solar only made 48ah. I think they made back what was used. Sound right?

Unfortunately the insulation, venting, and trim work will have to wait a couple weeks due to more pressing stuff. Hope y'all will be patient with me.

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I had an idea while eating dinner. That 54ah is for everything drawing power so if i subtract the inverters .8 amp per hour (19.2 for 24hrs.) then what's left is the fridge (34.8). Does that make sense?

I shared that with my wife and she says "it doesn't make sense that the grape solar fridge we had in the tiny house, which was marketed as a off grid solar powered fridge, drew more power than this residential one."

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Sabatical said:
I shared that with my wife and she says "it doesn't make sense that the grape solar fridge we had in the tiny house, which was marketed as a off grid solar powered fridge, drew more power than this residential one."

This is one basic problem with the electronically controlled high performance 12v solar compatible fridges: most all have a quiescent power draw. It could even be more than .8 amp. I dont know, since I dont have one to measure.

The ones that don't (like the truckfridge units) have a simple mechanical thermostat and no voltage monitoring circuits.

The computer that monitors incoming voltage and internal temperatures has to be operating 24/7, so it might just balance against what your inverter pulls on standby. All those pretty LEDS on the high performance fridges draw something!

This could end up being a zero-sum equation. As always, the devil is in the details.

Normal dorm fridges like the one you got have ZERO drain when the compressor is not running, and that is not a throwaway.

So yeah, it might end up being about as efficient, or maybe more so, however the fridge COULD end up struggling in the summer heat if you camp in warm areas and constantly open the doors...chest fridges have little loss of cold air when opened compared to the upright style.

I would simply wait to draw conclusions until after it's put in service. Lets see what it does out there in the 'high desert'!

:p
 
Yours is using twice the watts of smaller ones too
 
bardo said:
Yours is using twice the watts of smaller ones too
I believe i've read or watched that the big whynter fridge uses 25ah a day. We aren't that far off.

I watched Bob's truckfridge video tonight. It sure is nice but too small for us. In a perfect world i could find an upright small fridge with a danfoss compressor that didn't cost $1500. It's like a golden unicorn.

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Sabatical said:
I watched Bob's truckfridge video tonight. It sure is nice but too small for us.

I guess I haven't seen that one...

I had an Indel-B in my last Peterbilt. But the freezer section was TINY.

You can get them in larger sizes, but I dont know how big exactly. They are like all units of this type, made in China for Indel-B, an Italian firm, with Peterbilt, Kenworth, Freightliner, Volvo, etc stamped inside. Same as the smaller units sold by TruckFridge.

They ARE rated for heavy duty truck use. In a modern Class 8 tractor, there are 2 stages of LVD (low voltage disconnect) that are managed by one of the the truck's many computer modules.

The first stage when the 4 batteries drops below a certain voltage (probably about 12.2 or so) disconnects the 'hotel' loads, but leaves the rest of the systems operational, like the ECM, dashboard power sockets, Qualcomm satellite MTU, dome lights, etc still working.

The second stage, around 11.9 or so, kills everything except the starter, and relays for the starter, and on some trucks, all starting power is re-routed to the APU, because it can start with a much weaker battery. The APU will then charge the batteries back to a normal range so you can start the truck.

Anyway, the point is, that the constant draw of a truck fridge with electronics of its own is not needed or desired in modern trucks so they dont have them.
 
Sabatical said:
I believe i've read or watched that the big whynter fridge uses 25ah a day. We aren't that far off.

I watched Bob's truckfridge video tonight. It sure is nice but too small for us. In a perfect world i could find an upright small fridge with a danfoss compressor that didn't cost $1500. It's like a golden unicorn.

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I've seen 40-45a being typical for the 12v ones loaded with stuff in probably cooler temps. It seems to me just like most things 12v, that a compressor is a compressor. You lose on the inverter but otherwise it's pretty close...and frankly never really worth the marginal gains for 3-5x the price.
 
if my Engel's ran at 100% duty cycle it would be 64.8ah/24hrs. at 50% duty cycle it would be 32.4. for most of the year it runs about 25-30% duty cycle which works out to 16.2-19.44ah/24hrs. your numbers are way off. an Engel does not have your typical compressor, look it up. like I said I just bought a lightly used 40qt for 300 bucks. by the time you buy a decent dorm refer and inverter you are there. also I have bounced them around hundreds of miles of dusty back roads on the outside of my truck with no problem. once or twice a year I blow the dust out of the working end with a leaf blower. like I said I tried the dorm refers and there is no comparison. highdesertranger
 
dorm refer, inverter, and 140w of solar for it and you're almost there. then when it goes out you're not replacing a $600 upright fridge


The trucker fridge is 60w with average consumption of 24w.

http://www.truckfridge.com/tf65/


on par with similar sized dorm fridges
 
tx2sturgis said:
This is one basic problem with the electronically controlled high performance 12v solar compatible fridges: most all have a quiescent power draw. It could even be more than .8 amp. I dont know, since I dont have one to measure.

The ones that don't (like the truckfridge units) have a simple mechanical thermostat and no voltage monitoring circuits.

The computer that monitors incoming voltage and internal temperatures has to be operating 24/7, so it might just balance against what your inverter pulls on standby. All those pretty LEDS on the high performance fridges draw something!



Normal dorm fridges like the one you got have ZERO drain when the compressor is not running, and that is not a throwaway.

This could end up being a zero-sum equation. As always, the devil is in the details.
And here are those details.

The quiescent draw on my 12vDC danfoss/secop  powered  Vitrifrigo front loader fridge is somewhere around 0.02 amps, when the compressor is not running,  I have a 0.03 amp internal 40mm computer fan running 24/7. It is powered from the internal LED light and blows into the freezer section so I consider the quiescent draw on mine to be 0.05 amps when the compressor is not running.

The danfoss compressor controller DOES have voltage shut offs, by inserting a resistor between two terminals on the compressor controller. I've never bothered trying to influence its stock settings.  It is off at 10.4v and will come back on at 11.7v.

Battery protection (Fig. 1) The compressor stops and restarts again according to the designated voltage limits measured on the + and - terminals of the electronic unit. The standard settings for 12V and 24V power supply systems appear from Fig. 3. Other settings (Fig. 4) are optional if a connection which includes a resistor (9) is established between terminals C and P.

http://files.danfoss.com/TechnicalI...nit_101n0600_12-24vdc_08-2011_dehc100m602.pdf

Note that the danfoss bd35f  compressor is also capable of rpms from 2000 to 3500, about 2.2 amps upto about 5.8 amps.  Amp draw lessenes as the compressor runs, like mine at 2000 rpm draws 2.6 amps a few seconds after the compressor fires up and 2.2 amps when it shuts down ~4.5 minutes later.

Some chest style units will raise the compressor speed higher on initial cool down and slow it after it is cool automatically.  These  can also control the low voltage cut outs by pressing buttons on the faceplate, but this could be accomplished with different resistors in line on the upright units whose compressor controller contacts are accessable on the back. 

Increasing the compressor speed on Danfoss/secop powered Vitrifrigo could be accomplished with a potentiometer, but I've never seen the need for more than 2000 rpm in my usage over the last 5 years.  I could easily bump it upto 2500 and 3.2 amps tapering to about 2.8 with the resistor they provided and which I removed.

My 1.8 cubic foot  upright front loader fridge has extra insulation, and very good condenser ventilation.  I average about 0.62Ah each hour, 0.05AH of which is the quiescent draw of my internal 40mm computer fan and the comnpressor controller awaiting a signal from the thermostat to fire up the compressor.

In 75F average ambients it is consuming 14.55 AH  a day, just me  eating at least 3 meals a day from it, and maintaining 32.5f on a setting of 2.2 out of a possible 7.

I bet I could shave off several more AH with better door insulation and door seals Which I will be doing soon.

This Data was also recorded while also keeping the inside of the van cooler midday using several computer fans whose amp draw can vary from about 0.25 amps  to as high as 1.2 amps depending on how many fans I am running and the speeds I have chosen to run them at.  Usually when they are at top speed/ amp draw , I have excess solar wattage available for them, and the fridge.  Overnight amp draw from fans is usually much lower as is fridge amp draw too.

Truckfridge sells a 4.2 cubic foot fridge for 700 $.  I spent about 600$ on my VFc51is(1.8 cubic foot) back in 2012, iirc.

https://www.amazon.com/TruckFridge-...01J0WQ4CG/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_pdt_img_top?ie=UTF8


My amp consumption of the fridge is measured with one of these wattmeters.  They are about 90 to 95% accurate at the fridge comsumption amperages.  Some of these 'Watts up' clones are more accurate than others.  Mine are judged against 3 other ammeters, though none of those are precision  calibrated Flukes.

 https://www.amazon.com/Power-Analyz...501563234&sr=8-2&keywords=gt+power+watt+meter.

These above wattmeter can handle 130 amps of surge and 25 amps continuous, and could be wired inline on a dedicated inverter which only poweres the fridge.  The 12awg wiring is not ideal, but it is short. 2 of my 3 watt meters cannot read the 0.05 amp quiescent draw so I tack 1.2 AH each 24 hours to account for it onto my numbers above. One should measure very low draws with an ammeter capable of reading low amps more accurately and compare to the wattmeter. If it is not seeing 0.07 amps, this has to be added to the WH or AH consumed for the time it is measured.

Give us honest Data on a residential/ dorm fridge powered from an inverter in actual use as used by an actual dweller. 

Because guessing sucks.
 
highdesertranger said:
if my Engel's ran at 100% duty cycle it would be 64.8ah/24hrs. at 50% duty cycle it would be 32.4. for most of the year it runs about 25-30% duty cycle which works out to 16.2-19.44ah/24hrs. your numbers are way off. an Engel does not have your typical compressor, look it up. like I said I just bought a lightly used 40qt for 300 bucks. by the time you buy a decent dorm refer and inverter you are there. also I have bounced them around hundreds of miles of dusty back roads on the outside of my truck with no problem. once or twice a year I blow the dust out of the working end with a leaf blower. like I said I tried the dorm refers and there is no comparison. highdesertranger
I appreciate your opinion and your experience HDR. I'm glad that it's worked well for you. I hope you share where you picked your new one up with folks reading this thread so any of them who'd be interested could take advantage of the deal.

Like I said before, i'll post the numbers from the kill-a-watt when i get it. Whether they a higher or lower, i got nothing to prove or hide.

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SW,
I followed the links provided. That TruckFridge looks well built. The listing didn't say what compressor is in it. Bob's recent video said some of them use Danfoss. I like that the ad listed power usage. I also liked that mine appears to be on par. Of course the kill-a-watt will prove or disprove that. I doubt my residential unit will be as durable but only time will tell.

Anybody who reads my posts can see that i am an open book. Nothing to hide and happy to share. If folks on tight budgets can benefit from this project, then i'll consider it a success for them and for me. Either folks can see a success and save some $ while having decent fridge space, or they can see that it was not a success and spend their money on something else.

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this all gives me a great idea. take a standard mini with the lowest wattage you can find. Build in an inverter and let the cig plug hang out. Sell fridge as a 12v for $600.
 
Is the truck fridge an Indel B?

I just bought an Indel B 31 quart cooler from Equipt for $450 with free shipping.  It uses a Danfoss compressor BD35 (or actually they are the new company that bought Danfoss).   It can take 12/24V or 110VAC which means it has the converter module (this was a $100 option on our NovaKool 9.1cuft fridge with a Danfoss compressor.

I am seeing 37 watts when on max rpm cooling and 24 watts when on eco cool which I think sets the compressor rpm at the lowest setting.   The thing can cool down to -8 degrees F and gets ice cream rock hard.  

$450 is amazing.  That is cheaper than I can buy a replacement compressor unit for our NovaKool.
 
SternWake said:
And here are those details.

{snip}

Because guessing sucks.

Score!

Man those are the details alright! I knew we'd get you going SW!   :p I wanna buy you (at least) a beer for all the research you do...

Those are excellent numbers, very impressive. I'm learning, from your experience, and from Sabs experimenting.

It's a win-win situation for anyone reading all of this...but, those are all raw numbers, even though they look like the final data.

A 1.8 cf fridge is not the same as a 4.3 cf fridge or whatever the numbers are.

Keeping perishable food cold is a 'job' we assign to a fridge. That's the only reason we buy one, not for looks, not for something to enjoy. It only has to do one thing: Keep a certain amount of food cold.

So, working with a single fridge in each rig:

Take all of the raw data, then figure in the POUNDS or cubic feet of food kept cold, divided into the total number of dollars spent on hardware....THIS is the final, useful number.

You could even throw in one more number: The amount of food (in dollar value) kept under safe temperature control, versus the number of dollars spent to keep them there.

Let's say you had $100 worth of food in yours, and you have spent lets say, $1500 on
the fridge, the fans, the panels, the charge controllers, the batteries, and misc items to make it all work.

Then we have ol' Sab keeping $230 worth of food safe and cold, (since his will hold about 2.3 times more food in volume, assuming the products are all about the same individual prices). Wife is happy, lots of food, enough food for 2, for 2 weeks on solar alone. (or a month for one person) Sure, it's sucking lots more of that precious solar juice. Lets say he also spent $1500 on the fridge, inverter, charge controller, batteries, misc items, and the panels.

(Plus he will save some gasoline with fewer trips to the grocery store. But lets keep it simple and ignore that part.)

So he spent the same $1500 to get a 'bigger' job done....

NOW which is more efficient?

It's a bit like comparing the fuel mileage of my Ford cargo van, fairly efficient, at lets say, 18 mpg avg, compared with the fuel mileage of a modern aerodynamic Class 8 tractor-trailer getting 8 mpg, average.

Sure, these raw numbers don't favor the truck....but the truck is moving the driver and 45,000 pounds of temperature controlled groceries down the road, while my van is able to haul a driver and lets say, 2000 pounds of groceries at the most.

When you do the math: For a 500 mile day trip, the truck will burn about $156 in diesel, at about $2.50 per gallon.  

For 500 miles in my van, I will burn about $61 in gasoline, at $2.20 per gallon.

Dividing the cargo weights by the dollars spent, we moved the cargo for 288 pounds per dollar spent (on fuel) with the semi. But each dollar in gasoline pumped into the van only moved about 32 pounds of cargo. It would take 9 vans to move the same amount of cargo, for a total fuel cost of $549!

So it just depends on the 'work' you are trying to do.

Or so it seems to me.

Your thoughts please?
 
If your fridge is really burning through ~50a a day in the summer (we'll just use summer numbers for now) a 140w panel from solarblvd ($150 shipped) will meet that nominally. one battery would do, but lets say 2 6v. An mppt charge controller, wiring, brackets, decent MSW inverter and fridge @ $125.

a total system would be something like $550

a trucker fridge of the same size with 2 6v's and a 100w panel with same controller pus wiring and brackets about- $975

or a discount chest style @ 1/3 capacity $300 plus all else - $675
 
I have a bunch of errand running to do after i get home from work in the morning so i am going to go by Harbor Freight and pick up a k-a-w and a fridge thermometer. I'll run the fridge on a range of coldness settings logging the temp and watts at each setting. Then i'll buy some extra groceries and load it up and then see what it will do.

The weather here looks to be in the mid 80's for the rest of the week. The camper is in direct sun, on the fridge side, from sun up til mid afternoon. This should give enough real world numbers to make a comparison. As for ruggedness, that'll have to wait til winter travel time.



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