Any tips or advice for a soon new and frightened dweller?

[gslanm]

At some point in the near future I have no financial or logistical alternative but to live in a van for at least 5 years probably. I'm lucky enough to where I'd probably have enough capital to buy a good condition (15k-30k miles) used van and build it with savings. I will also have savings left over for several years but I'd rather not deplete it.

I'm frightened about how to build it without screwing up, where to start, how to stealth (I live east coast and cops are nasty here), my mental health, where to get an address to necessity mailing/drivers license, showers, food, cooking, heat, air conditioning and so forth. I've watched many videos and have a really good idea on how to work on things but many things are left ambiguous or not really for amateurs.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, is it normal to be really frightened and can I really be successful at this given I have no choice? Can I get any in-person help anywhere with the build aside from videos? Is there a community to hang with to keep my mental health from deteriorating or just stay safer? Can I stealth well? I'm afraid of propane can I heat or cool the van? I'm not touching the top of my van to put a fan in I will mess it up, does anyone do this safely?

My initial build would be a yeti 1400 w/ solar panels (since I have no idea how to hook up or build an electric grid  ), reflectix then insulation spray glued then walling, ceiling, flooring (wood). From there, building cabinets, comfortable bed, makeshift shower of sun joe 5 gallon sprayer (circular rod, curtain, large plastic bucket or built in shower flooring with makeshift drain), using a hot stove to heat water for shower and cook, and so on so forth. Am I going the wrong way with anything? Is there an easier or more efficient/lasting way to do any of this better?

Was thinking of an air conditioner on the floor that can be hooked up makeshift to a window and sealed temporarily. Likewise a low wattage electric heater to the yeti 1400. I'm scared of propane but maybe a Mr. Buddy?

I am kind of scared of where to park also to stealth. On the east coast it's really messy. Walmarts never allow it, hotels will see me there too often, no rv parks at all. Only place is probably a large shopping parking next to bus stop looking like I left overnight and hotels where I can find them.

Well any advice and opinions or strong words appreciated. Because I have to do this soon and I'm afraid. Should I move west coast where it's more tolerated and easier to find parking/stealth/nature? Would also like to say good luck to all the other people I read posting in worse situations or in need of help I feel for a lot of you and wish you all the best stay strong, including the person who has ill health and needs help too.

 

[B and C]

Hi, and welcome.  Why don't you head over to the Newcomer's Corner and introduce yourself for a proper welcome.

Everyone is nervous or afraid starting out because it is the great unknown.

Making heat from electricity is very inefficient.  You don't notice it in S&B because you have the big grid delivering unlimited amounts.  The best way to stay cool and warm are to move with the seasons.  North in summer and south in winter.  A good sleeping bag is highly recommended.  Get a buddy and don't run it when you sleep, that's what the bag is for.  You'll probably need a generator to run an air conditioner.  Easier to move up in elevation and latitude.

If you don't have anything making you stay in the east, the camping out west is a lot easier and you can get some seasonal jobs if you want.

The three most common states to get domicile in are Florida, Texas and I think S. Dakota (maybe north).  Just because you have an address in one state does not mean you can't travel extensively in other states.

 

[gslanm]

Thanks I will do that, I should've checked for the new section. The problem with efficient installation of a generator or an inverter/electric system, or a fan, is that it's too complicated for me and I wouldn't want to risk injuring any new van. I suppose I'd try a propane heater though, some dwellers have had it work during winters.

 

[B and C]

I suppose I'd try a propane heater though, some dwellers have had it work during winters.

I would say most dwellers use propane for heating and cooking [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif](some like butane for cooking, not me)[/font].  Get an RV approved propane detector and place it near the floor, propane is heavier than air.  Add a RV CO detector and mount about midway up the wall (bed height), this will prevent you from suffocation.  House detector's are not built to take the rigors of mobile life.

Start simple with a cot and totes.  You will soon learn what you need and don't need.  Where it would be nice to keep stuff.  Your van can be built on the road.  Nomadic Fanatic is working toward a van build get together in Kentucky I think.

Think of the van as a steel tent to start out with.

 

[crofter]

Welcome to the forum, gslanm.

 Don't worry too much about making mistakes, for sure you will make some mistakes. We all have, and then you learn to fix whatever it is that is not the way you wanted it.

 At this point in your journey, you are considering a low miles van? Any preference on what make, and will you need 4 wheel drive where you plan to travel? The Ram Promaster is big and easy to build out, but they are front wheel drive. If you are going to remote areas on rough roads, you may want a van that has 4 wheel drive, or one that can be modified with a locker to add traction on the rough spots. Do you want to build the van yourself, or buy something already done? 
~crofter

 

[GypsyJan]

You will remain anxious until you get out there and gain experience by actually doing that which frightens you. So start by using a vehicle you already own. If that is not feasible, as soon as you procure your home on wheels, camp in the driveway or a nearby state park. You only need good bedding, a cooler, a camp chair & a stove. You probably already have sheets, pillows, blankets, towels, plates, eating & cooking utensils, a skillet and a few pots with lids. Get a couple of dish pans for cleanup and some curtains for privacy. A toilet system won't be needed yet if you are at home or a campground. Once you've spent a few nights in your vehicle, you will get a feel for what else you must have. For instance, you decide you need a bed with storage beneath, which dictates a build or non-build. Once you choose which one, you'll be antsy to get 'er done and not as worried about messing up.

 

[bullfrog]

Most full sized vans with room to stand are expensive. Maybe rent a van locally for a weekend and try it out with just a cheap cot and sleeping bag at a state park or your local Cracker Barrel. Change clothes, try a bucket toilet, try taking a sponge bath and just in general see what you think you can live with and what you don’t want to live without. Several people find a small light weight camper trailer pulled by a van works better for them. See if RV Sue still has her blog up. A van will work but make sure it will work for you and keep enough reserve so you can be flexible. Out west it is possible to camp cheaply on BLM land or use a National Parks Pass, no stealth required.

 

[desert_sailing]

Howdy gslanm,

I am just getting started myself. The most important thing I have learned so far is that there is great advice offered here on the forum.

I have zero build skills and zero electrical  knowledge. I have tried to keep everything very simple at this point. I did a test of the mr buddy heater and I would not suggest it. If you are concerned about the propane issue the catalytic ones seem to be much safer. The Mr. Heater Journey 3 catalytic says it is indoor safe unlike the buddy types. I have only had it for a few days and only ran it briefly but I think I  will enjoy it more. I have a very simple solar.. a 100watt panel and a 35 ah battery. It is enough to provide lights at night, charge my devices and hopefully a little fridge. Maybe later I will expand but I don't fully understand the electrical. A kit will give you what you need..probably less than a generator.. you don't have to do much fancy wiring as I think many kits are plug and play systems anyhow. It seems to me that a solar generator is the same thing but in a fancy more expensive case. But I have no idea. I am a minimalist when it comes to electricity and don't plan nor desire outlets everywhere of dif. types. How much electricity does a person really need?.... I don't know.. I am the guy that would use candles if it was safer. I want to get a blender that is powered by bicycle...

I was lucky in that I have a pal that does carpentry and he basically did the whole build for me.. (not free) I did help with grunt stuff but if not for him I would have an air mattress on the floor and some plastic bins. As I have observed it isn't too difficult and basic carpentry skills is all that is needed to make a functioning home.  Insulating and putting  up your walls and floors are pretty basic, unless you have a medical issue it isn't bad. Doing your ceiling is bit more difficult especially if you are by yourself doing it. Holding and fastening is not the easiest, the arms tire quickly. 
For your counters/cabinets you could also look at ready made from a number of places. Paying a little more for ready made over building/rebuilding may be worth the time. Plus you maybe able to get colors and styles that really speak to you instead of trying to concoct something. Next time I do a build I would probably buy ready made counters.  

I found out real fast that those videos on youtube  never show the problems. They cut out all the difficult times, all those times that you/we were/are stricken with concern and bewilderment and confusion/despair. The youtube videos are not the best for practical build outs. They led me astray more than once.

The best thing about this forum are all those who are going to keep you going and provide great guidance.

I am in the Western part of the country and I am also concerned about the parking and finding a safe place to be even out here. Trust me, the cops out here aren't any nicer than out there. Nor are our busybodies less interested in whats going on with the van parked down the way. We of course have far more land and people are more spaced out. I think/hope that fear of where to  go will subside with a bit of practice.

As I have gotten closer to completing the build my anxiety level has risen. Soon the van will be done and it will be real. I am trying to embrace it but it is feeling like I have to embrace a python.. even though you know it has eaten you still don't feel quit comfortable doing it.... well maybe some folks would.

You are in good hands here. I have made many posts requesting input and things are turning out pretty darn good. Finding community on the road is what I am now starting to think about much more but I am certain that given the kind people that are here that finding a community will be pretty easy.

Good luck to you. I look forward to seeing your posts as you progress.

You can find some good pictures of peoples builds here to get inspiration.. I think many of them are under the "conversions" topic. I will be wrapped up with my build in the next few days and I will be posting the whole build and rebuild of the original errors. It aint gonna be fancy but maybe you can get an idea or two from someone showing a bit of the ugly instead of youtube glamour.

 

[crofter]

You will remain anxious until you get out there and gain experience by actually doing that which frightens you. So start by using a vehicle you already own. If that is not feasible, as soon as you procure your home on wheels, camp in the driveway or a nearby state park....

GypsyJan is right about this. By doing a few shakedown cruises, you will figure out what you must have with you, and what you don't need. I disagree about the potty. I always have my potty with me, and it was the first item I made. Check out the threads in hygiene area about this, there are many individualized versions of the best way to do this. Suanne in the Prius has pretty good advice on this if you look up her blog. Not sure if you are more interested in a minivan or a big van, but here she is living out of a Prius.
~crofter
Description: link to blog describing daily living out of a Prius.
http://suanneonline.blogspot.com/p/bathing-brushing.html

 

[maki2]

It is natural to be overwhelmed with a lot of mixed emotions when making a major life change. Then you throw on top of that needing to acquire a lot of not just new knowledge but also dozens of new skill sets to master. You will literally have a thousand or more decisions to make while doing a build if you are doing to totally fit out a van with a full interior and cabinets, electrical, pluming etc. Things about the build, what equipment to buy, the layout, how to put it all together and make it work without wasting any money or time. If you don't have a mentor on hand to help you with acquiring those skills that could indeed make it feel rather frightening before you dive into it. But if you reach out to people you know or watch videos you will get past that and do better than you think you can.

First thing to know is you can tap into what you already know how to do every time you start an new aspect of your project. You already know how to take measurements and do basic math. You know how to read instructions. You already have many skills with tools even though you don't think you do. Cutting a piece of meat with a knife, using a spoon, fork, pencil, scissors, walking, reading a ruler, pushing, pulling, bending, lifting these are all really important skills you have already acquired. They are skills you have acquired that have taught your brain and body to work together in coordination. That means you have developed a massive amount of motor skills for control, pressure, judgement of distance, hand to eye coordination, timing and more. This means you already have what it takes to do a build, all you have to do is add in some practice with things like saws, drill motor, screw driver, wire crimpers and such. Just remember and keep reminding yourself that you are already 99% of the way there for mastering the tools you need for a build.

Power tools make noise, wearing ear protection does not just protect your ears, it also makes it quieter so you have better concentration and reducing the noise also helps reduce the feelings of fear of using power tools. That all on its own truly calms down the stress.

Tackle your fear of propane buy getting yourself a little table top propane outdoor grill and cook up some BBQ, hamburgers and such once a week. It is summer time, enjoy that kind of cooking experience. You can then graduate to using a camp stove after that. Fear is good for developing safe methods of use. But you don't want it to rule your life. So recognize it, acknowledge that you are nervous, let yourself know that it is an OK feeling to have, and then slowly tackle it one meal at a time while you work on your build.

 

[gslanm]

Thanks for all the tips and advice. Desert_sailing I will keep in mind the journey 3 I'm guessing because it has an oxygen sensor it's safer indoors? Do you fill propane of any size canister at the local home depot or something like that? Not sure what you mean by an "electrical kit". If I get a yeti 1400 or so and utilize solar that would be my improvised kit but if there's an easier way to do an electrical system with plugs that would be more permanent.

Maki2, I have no experience with tools and I would have to rent them I guess, so are there any handful of tools I need in general to install the floor, roof, sides and let's say If I build a shower or cabinets as well? Any suggestions on ready made sinks or parts therein to easily assemble?

I was looking at the Ram Promaster or the Ford Transit Van, I'm not even sure any van's in a reasonable price range come 4 wheel drive. I'd preferably like front wheel due to it snows east coast sometimes. My main concern is low mileage and high top/space since I'm 6ft. My hunch was to buy a fleet vehicle with low mileage at a discount. $25k is my target.

What do you guys do when it snows and you wake up parked with 12 inches? Where do you get fresh water when there's generally no park faucets or RV camps anywhere near NY/NJ here? My best guess was bring 1 gallon containers and fill them up one by one at accessible stores or gyms or something like that, but I know of no outdoor accessible water source really in this area.

I wouldn't really have months to build out a van I would mainly have to transition into one all at once in 6mos to 2yrs (best guess), and spend maybe 2-3 weeks doing it as fast as possible. Obviously I'd like to be prepared because it's all but certain at this point.

This might be a stupid question but if you guys use solar panels, do they work/charge on the dashboard decently until/if I can mount them on a roof once I figure this all out?

 

[shadowmoss]

I'd suggest starting with a no build build. Do a search on YouTube for no build van build. Go with used furniture and dollar store containers. Live that way for awhile. Learn from that what is worth it to you to actually customize and build in.

 

[jacqueg]

Gslann, it seems to me that you are overwhelming yourself by thinking you have to make dozens of decisions all at once.

You absolutely DO NOT have to make all those decisions right this minute, in fact you will be better off financially and tactically if you don't.

Do you have a vehicle now? Great. Go camping in it. Even if you only camp in your own driveway/backyard or a friend's driveway/backyard. All you really need RIGHT NOW is a way to make a comfortable bed and a way to carry some food and water. That's it. (Notice I don't mention cooking. For a 2-3 day trip, you really don't NEED to cook. Many years ago, I would go camping with apples, cheese, salami, and sourdough bread.) So work on figuring those two things out. It may take a few tries to get it right, especially the bed part.

By the time you have that accomplished, you will also have had a few thoughts about what you missed about being in your house. Pick ONE and work on finding a solution for that.

Unless you know what YOU need to be comfortable living in a vehicle, you don't have a factual basis for choosing a vehicle, let alone what YOU need for a "build".

There are people doing van dwelling on the east coast. But there's no question that it's easier out west. So start thinking about whether you need to stay on the east coast. Allow yourself the time to go back and forth on this question.

There are many reasons people live in their vehicles, and there are many ways to do it. You have some time, and you have some money stashed away. You are actually in fine shape. So relax a bit and have some faith in yourself. You can and will figure it out.

 

[GntlStone]

Welcome.
Definitely listen to the wise ones (Gypsy, Desert Sailing, Maki, Crofter, B&C, etc)
Take your time, little by little, start simple and small.
Acknowledge your fear but don't let it rule you. Mistakes are learning opportunities. ReStore (Habitat for Humanity store) and surplus building supply stores offer cheaper alternatives to big box stores and give room for mistakes and learning without losing your wallet.
Home Depot and Lowes and other stores will offer demo classes again someday.
Ikea offers a pretty nice all in one kitchen sink unit that may work well to start if you add fresh and grey water jerry cans below and use a foot or battery water pump. Sunnersta Mini Kitchen $130. You could stash a 12v fridge below as well. 
Taka a look at the Captain's/ storage beds also. Just add child locks to keep drawes from opening in transit. A little extra wood glue or a few braces will add durability.
Best of luck.

~Kris

 

[maki2]

You don't really need a kitchen sink. A dishpan and jug of water, or even just squirt spray bottles work will work just fine for cleanup. There are quite a few van dwellers who think a sink is a big waste of counter top and cabinet space.
If you think that maybe someday you will want to put in a sink leave space for it but you don't have to start out with one. You can practice different ways of doing things before you even get out on the road and to see if you are OK with not putting one in.

Here is a video from Hi Tech Hobo's youtube channel. He does not even use a dish pan when he does dishes.


Here is how Bob Wells, the owner of this website, doing dishes on his youtube channel Cheap RV Living

 

[Qxxx]

gslanm, you asked about solar and electrical hookups. First off, for something like a Yeti 1400, you will likely need two or three 100W solar panels. As those panels are approx 2'x4' each, no way you can put them on the dashboard. Also, that size Yeti would take hours to charge from the starter battery.

In regards wiring, something like the Yeti is the easiest thing there is to work with, since everything is built in including an AC inverter. Just plug in a compatible solar panel on the input side, and plug in your 120 VAC and 12 VDC devices on the output side. 30 second job. No wiring involved. On my next van revision, I am thinking of tearing out all the wiring and batteries and going the Yeti route.

 

[LERCA]

First take a deep breath and remain calm. You are ok. You’re safe and in the right place. Seriously. I was worse off than you because I just had a small SUV and no money and health problems. I felt exactly like you did. And I have few skills that would help in this life. I did the same thing you are doing, overwhelming myself by trying to learn and figure out everything at once. Impossible. Start where you are.

Can you afford a used small RV that’s already built? That’s what I plan to do in a year and a half when I can access my retirement funds-a little used Class B.

A build on your own is extremely difficult but if you want to do it my 2 cents (worth about that much) then buy your van and put in a mattress and something to use as a toilet (Amazon and sporting goods stores sell camping toilets) get some food and water. That’s all you need to start. Watch the most basic video Bob and Suzanne made about living in a car. You don’t need to cook for a while. Tiny steps.

From what I’ve heard it’s easier in the West to live in a vehicle but if you have a support system where you are think about whether you really want to leave it. The summers are hot here and can last forever depending on the state, unless you’re in the mountains so if you can wait till fall that would be better if you decide to come west.

If you have your own towels and bedding, some pots, dishes, utensils etc load them up for the future. Thrift shops in nice neighborhoods are good too. You can always give away what you find you don’t need. If there’s something that helps you stay sane (for me it’s reading then knitting) then bring that. You’ll be spending a lot of time in your van in the beginning. If you can get a safe deposit box at your bank I highly suggest that.

Hook up with a caravan or some friendly people and go slowly. You don’t need to do everything at once. Right now it sounds like you need a safe place to stay. These forums will walk you through anything you need and anything you need to do. There’s a huge amount of knowledge and experience here.

 

[gslanm]

Thanks I bookmarked '12v fridge' and the ready made sink as viable options. I really appreciate all the advice. I think the biggest things I'd have to have right off the bat is a functioning electrical system and on the east coast there's no way to just put out solar panels anywhere for hours. I was just hoping if I put one large on on the dashboard for 6-8 hours while I worked it would charge well but IDK.

I've done extensive research and the Yeti, to me, feels like the best battery out there due to it's wattage, all in one, and power and all that. I have no idea how to hook the panels to the roof. I don't dare drill latches or anything or a hole for the wires. The dashboard is my only guess on how to charge it while I work or am out of the van.

Jacq, I probably am overwhelming myself but going from living in a middle class house for 20 years to a van isn't going to be easy unless I'm fully prepared, and like it or not this is my future in anywhere from 6 mos to a year or two is my best guess.

Maki, I probably need a sink only because I'm a neat freak and I on the east coast almost everything has to be stealth or inside. I would find it really hard where I am to just impromptu hop out and sponge my dishes anywhere without a few nosy cops asking what's up and flagging my plate to watch me in the future. The east coast is 100% must stealth. I don't know if you guys are in west or south states but it's very uppity here if you are poor or in a car. Once I stayed in a car in a rest stop in Atlantic City and not 2 hours I was resting a cop parks behind me and just creepily watches. That's a rest stop at 2am with nobody there. So stealth is the game.

I need better ideas on air conditioning or heating. I'll have to work on that. The yeti can't power these things it seems for very long. Propane is ok I guess for a heater, but no clue on air.

On the east coast water procurement is probably hard. There's really no parks with fountains or RV things anywhere here. The closest is PA maybe. I have no idea how I'd fill up 3-5 gallons a day for shower/cooking. Any ideas?

I'm still unsure what van. I'm leaning towards Ram promaster or Ford transit. Has to be high top I'm 6'1. Would prefer front or all wheel but have to keep it to 25k and low mileage to avoid breakdowns.

You guys are awesome thanks for the initial help. I bookmarked this post and will be on the forums casually. When things happen for me I'll post a few pictures and such.

 

[B and C]

You will have to get out of your comfort zone to do this. Your home is on wheels, you could chase the good weather and not need AC, you will need heat though but it is easier to come by.

 

[LERCA]

Good quality tools are very expensive, some are large and heavy and then you have to have a place to store them. I’m a measure four times, cut once type and I’ve destroyed much expensive material. So you can add tools, place to work and sometimes expensive materials to your cost. If you aren’t going to use most of the tools again then what? Most of the van builders use tools for other things and already have them but it’s a major investment. I have several thousand dollars invested in my metalsmithing and don’t even have a lot of things I really need (I use the university studio) People who have never made anything forget this whole expense and it adds up.