Advice and Information for Tent Nomad

[Ms Daisy]

Well I have found spikes that fit the recommendations of everyone.  Harbor Freight has some with a thing on them so they can be used for guy lines at about the same cost as plain nail spikes from Home Depot or Loewes.

I did research on getting set for high winds on sites geared towards expedition camping in harsh environments.  Finally found information on how to stake down the tent that is supposed to stabilize the tent in high winds.

Then I got worried about how much wind happened there in Ehrenberg.   So I did historical weather research on the area to find the high wind record.  With that I made a spreadsheet to find out just how much load force I was looking to withstand. If I can orient the tent properly I should be good to go with the added guy rope system.  Still working on the flapping material of the tent wall during high winds.  I have the information but budget constrictions prevent it from being put into place.

My other option is to camp down by the river.  I liked the idea - less dust, less wind.  But I remember the advice to stay out of the washes.  I checked all types of maps and discovered there are several Major washes periodically, all the minor little washes leading into them, on the map and they all led to the area down by the river.
This brings me to a question for anyone who can answer.  If I camp by the River, I will have less wind and less dust BUT when it rains will I get flooded out?  I know it does not rain a huge amount but the accumulated runoff of multiple square miles of land is significant.

Thanks to everyone for all the tips and advice.  It inspired me to do further research which will in the long run increase the pleasure and reduce the concerns and hazards over the whole year.

Hi Geo

Check out HWHiker's youtube channel ... he's got a lot of info on camping in Ehrenberg and especially along the river.  His one video specifically points to the road along the river being washed out due to flooding.  

He's also posted many videos about other AZ camping areas.  Love his channel.

The windiest condition I experienced just south of Ehrenberg was March 2016.  My RV weighs about 15,000 lbs.  Around nightfall the wind started picking up and by 9-10 pm it was blowing so hard and the RV rocking that I searched for a way to contact a ranger station and get the wind stats.  They said it was 40 mph.  I checked online wondering what my rig was rated for and it was 45-50 mph.  I worried for hours that we would be blown over.  I didn't know the wind storm was coming or I would have oriented my RV into the wind and not aside of it.  Now I know to check the weather and change positions beforehand.  Scariest experience ever.  Did have sand/silt in everything the next day.  Using your vehicle to block the wind is a great idea ... if you have a tall vehicle just be careful though.

 

[geogentry]

Hi Geo

Check out HWHiker's youtube channel ... he's got a lot of info on camping in Ehrenberg and especially along the river.  His one video specifically points to the road along the river being washed out due to flooding.  

He's also posted many videos about other AZ camping areas.  Love his channel.

The windiest condition I experienced just south of Ehrenberg was March 2016.  My RV weighs about 15,000 lbs.  Around nightfall the wind started picking up and by 9-10 pm it was blowing so hard and the RV rocking that I searched for a way to contact a ranger station and get the wind stats.  They said it was 40 mph.  I checked online wondering what my rig was rated for and it was 45-50 mph.  I worried for hours that we would be blown over.  I didn't know the wind storm was coming or I would have oriented my RV into the wind and not aside of it.  Now I know to check the weather and change positions beforehand.  Scariest experience ever.  Did have sand/silt in everything the next day.  Using your vehicle to block the wind is a great idea ... if you have a tall vehicle just be careful though.

I will certainly check out his channel.  I am interested in what he has to say on the washouts of road.  Dont want to get trapped.

WOW that is a huge wind.  Everything I found showed way less wind.  Sigh.  That doubles the load on my tent.  Gonna have to do some more figuring now.

I bet it was scary.  I just plugged in average information into my spreadsheet for an RV and your poor little RV had somewhere around 2,500 lbs of pressure pushing against it.  That is a huge amount of force.  You were lucky it didnt gust up much higher.

 

[mert6706]

Thanks to everyone for all the tips and advice. It inspired me to do further research which will in the long run increase the pleasure and reduce the concerns and hazards over the whole year.

Are you retired? 'Cause this sounds like you're working pretty hard! Glad somebody did this research, as I am contemplating giving it a try in a tent. I did see a video on Utube of last week's dust/wind storm at Ehrenberg. The tent dweller had to retreat to the car to get out of it.

 

[geogentry]

Are you retired? 'Cause this sounds like you're working pretty hard! Glad somebody did this research, as I am contemplating giving it a try in a tent. I did see a video on Utube of last week's dust/wind storm at Ehrenberg. The tent dweller had to retreat to the car to get out of it.

Yes am retired.  I am indeed putting a lot of hours into research.  The desert environment is a new one for me so I a trying to be as prepared as possible.  

There is a lot needed to know about being nomadic in a tent.  As I started research I kept finding new stuff to consider, plus things that people pointed out on here.  My primary goal is to be safe and to have fun.  That meant, for me at least, was making sure my dwelling was going to stand up to the environment.  One major worry and consideration was what to put down under the tent.  The cheap ground covers that are usually that can be bought along with a tent are basically the same material as the floor of the tent.  This is ok to keep water out, if the ground is all nice and smooth.  But start throwing sticks or sharp rocks, like in Ehrenberg, and pretty quickly you can end up with holes in the floor of the tent.  Not conducive to a long life span.  Finding the proper thing that would stand up to sharp rocks and still be in reach budget wise seemed to take forever before I solved the problem.  It seems like each step takes a monumental amount of effort.

I knew there were dust/wind storms in Ehrenburg but can't find a lot of information on the dust aspect. I wish I had seen that video.  It makes me wonder what kind of  tent he had, how he had it set up, did he bail into his car because of the wind or the dust or both, were all of the windows and door secured.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Well I have found spikes that fit the recommendations of everyone.  Harbor Freight has some with a thing on them so they can be used for guy lines at about the same cost as plain nail spikes from Home Depot or Loewes.

If you are talking about those little plastic T-shaped heads on the metal spikes, I will tell you, that those WILL break with high winds. Don't tie the cord to the plastic only, wrap the cord around the metal shank, and of course, drive the tent stake in at a 45 degree angle to the tent, pointing up and away from it. 

You can also double the lines and stakes on the upwind side of your tent, or all 4 corners if you are getting variable winds. 

Most tents will 'dip' or flatten out in high winds, so make sure that you don't stack things up inside that will get knocked over and break, or leak, during expected high winds. If the tent has a rain fly, and it's not raining, it might be a good idea to remove it when it's windy, to cut the chances of it getting blown away. 

If you are bringing a cooler or tote box with food or anything similar that will have some weight to it, always put it on the upwind side of the tent inside. If the wind gets REALLY bad, you can put your car's spare tire in the tent. I GAR UN TEE that tent will not blow away with a spare tire inside! (if it does, you have a tornado nearby!)

Finally, be sure to always close that door and zip it up when you leave the tent even for a little while, to keep critters out, and to keep it from collecting dust, catching wind, and the whole tent acting like a 'parachute'!

 

[tx2sturgis]

One major worry and consideration was what to put down under the tent.  The cheap ground covers that are usually that can be bought along with a tent are basically the same material as the floor of the tent.  This is ok to keep water out, if the ground is all nice and smooth.  But start throwing sticks or sharp rocks, like in Ehrenberg, and pretty quickly you can end up with holes in the floor of the tent. 

This is why I just always buy the cheapest plastic tarp that will fit the tent, from walmart or tractor supply or any hardware store, to use as a ground cover, and then toss it when it gets a bad rip or tear.

I prefer one that is slightly smaller in footprint than the floor of the tent. Why? Well sometimes the tarp will collect water from rains dripping down the side of the tent, and if the tarp does pool up with water, then the tent floor is sitting in a shallow puddle!

So I situate the tent over the tarp with the sides touching the ground, so water can run out, and also, I extend it out a foot or so past the bottom of the tent door, which gives me a place to take my boots off before I enter the tent, and a place to put them on again when I leave. 

Just to keep water from pooling up, I will sometimes poke dozens of small holes in a cheap tarp, this lets any collecting rain water drain out into the ground. The tent floor itself should be waterproof if you have a good quality tent.

 

[bullfrog]

I actually splurge and get the silver tarp and fold the edges over on itself so the new edge is a couple inches under the tent. It sort of makes a little wall to prevent water running in on top of the tarp and doubles the thickness near the walls where I usually set heavy stuff about 6 inches away from the wall so the tent doesn't wear a hole in it when the wind blows.

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]tx2sturgis[/font]

Great information Thank You for your tips

Yes they do have the stupid plastic heads on them.  I considered the force these spikes would be seeing and knew that plastic would be a waste, but they will help me pull the stake out of the ground when breakdown time occurs.  There are far better solution but they run 10 to 40 times as much.

Wind was/is my biggest concern, besides dust, so I did a lot of research and work to find out the stress on my tent.  What you suggested is excellent advice - well if I had a normal tent.
 
I am going to include how I got the final wind load figure, which will work for anything (ie van, rv), in case someone wants to figure things out for what they have.
My tent is 10 feet wide and 15 feet long with a center height of 7'3". That means end on into the wind I have in the range of ~70 square feet of surface area into the wind.  The formula is:   wind load = wind pressure X coefficient of drag X area

• wind pressure = wind speed squared x 0.00256
• coefficient of drag  = 2 - this can get very complicated to calculate.  The largest of the values for a flat surface (such as the side of a tent is 2.0.  I used that number even though I believe it is too high, as a safety margin.)
• area = length x width

So after that boring explanation if I am looking at 27 mph winds I would have 261 pounds of force across the end of the tent.   Which is containable with the guy rope configuration I have derived from research into how to secure tents in harsh environments.  What caused me to worry about the wind was the post of Ms Daisy.  There the wind was stated as 40 mph and that is 573 pounds of force on the end of the tent.  I am still working on securing against that type of wind as I do not believe a spare tire can prevent that much force from moving my tent harmfully.

I initially agreed with you on the use of those cheap blue (or silver) tarps since they are so cheap.  But Ehrenberg terrain worries me.  I talked with several tarp companies and did online research on the subject of ground covers.  It appears that vinyl is a better choice.  BUT - for my size tent the cost was far out of my budget (at least $130)   After a lot of searching I found the answer.  In prior years Billboards had the ads printed on paper and it was glued to the billboard something like wallpaper.  After the contract ran out the billboard company had the added expense and labor to remove or conceal the expired ad.  An overall cheaper solution was to print the ad on something that was durable, easy to put up and easy to remove.  So the billboard companies started to print on vinyl runners.  I found a company that sells them after they are removed.  A tarp from Walmart (at the current price) is $18, a vinyl runner is $25.  It is appreciably more durable, if damaged it is simple to repair and should last a very long time.  So I am recycling a product, saving $100 initially, providing better protection for my tent and spending less in the long run over using the cheap tarps.

The two final concerns about my dwelling are the dust and wind.  I just cant find enough data on the dust storms.  I know it is out there somewhere - it seems everything is out there on the internet if one looks hard enough.

 

[Almost There]

This brings me to a question for anyone who can answer.  If I camp by the River, I will have less wind and less dust BUT when it rains will I get flooded out?  I know it does not rain a huge amount but the accumulated runoff of multiple square miles of land is significant.

Camping down by the river means that the river absorbs all the water that the washes are handling. Besides, most of the campsites are several feet above the water level. Very few of them are actually at water level. My last years waterfront campsite is actually about 15' above water level even when the water level is high. The Colorado is a highly regulated river with multiple dams controlling the level to within inches! You're also going to be here during the driest time of the year...chances of monsoon rain creating flood conditions is somewhere between slim and nil.

I can see by your doing all the calculations of wind speed etc. that you are a worrier.

All I can do (and it probably won't help...    ) is to tell you to quit worrying.

First, there are sheltered areas all over the place that you can pick for a place to set up. The RTR with the volume of people is probably the only place where you will have fewer choices. At that point your vehicle or some other vehicle will have to be deployed to protect your tent in case of higher winds. The other thing to factor in is that the wind usually (note: usually..   ) dies down at sunset. During the daytime, high winds can be dealt with, even, if necessary bringing the tent down for a few hours until the wind dies down.

Get the best all metal stakes you can find - I prefer those 12" gutter nails that aren't even sold as tent stakes. They have a regular head on them that assists with pulling them back out. If you find they aren't enough then you can buy the rebar kind in Quartzite....there's a darn good reason that K&B carries them there.... You can also buy extra paracord for adding additional tie outs to the existing single lines...2 lines at 45 degrees to each other works way better than a single line. Learn to drive in your stakes properly - at an angle to the tent, never straight down.

For the dust, don't forget to bring a whisk with you, you will be sweeping out the tent regularly even if there is NO wind. It takes a very thorough spring cleaning to get the dust out of my van after a winter in AZ...  

You'll do fine!

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yes they do have the stupid plastic heads on them.  I considered the force these spikes would be seeing and knew that plastic would be a waste, but they will help me pull the stake out of the ground when breakdown time occurs.  There are far better solution but they run 10 to 40 times as much.

{snip}
 
My tent is 10 feet wide and 15 feet long with a center height of 7'3". 

Ok, thats a big tent, so here is what I have done for my awnings, you can try it if you like the idea:

I use the big 12" cabin spikes, (used for landscaping timbers and such) and then I slip them thru one end of a large turnbuckle. I wrap tape just under the turnbuckle loop to keep them together in the rig while packed away. 

I tie the cord to the other end of the turnbuckle. I put yellow tape on mine just to help them be more visible at night around camp. 

Then I use a medium size deadblow hammer to pound them in the ground. With the turnbuckle I can make make small adjustments to the tension if needed, or just move the stake further out.
 
The turnbuckle gives me a handle to hold while driving the stake into the ground, and an easy way to pull the stake back out of the ground when packing up.

These 12" steel spikes are pretty cheap when buying a dozen or so, or you might be able to use turnbuckles on the stakes you already have.

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Almost There[/font]

Thanks.  All very good advice

No so much worried about water rising up but water pouring down around my ears from the land above.   Between the area where Bob camps and the river there is about a 300 foot drop in elevation.  Granted it happens over a distance of about 1.5 miles. Still a concern but you do give me pause for thought.


In my multiple careers it has always been my responsibility to find out what went wrong and why it went wrong.  If I got rid of the why the what never happened.  Knowing that Murphy is like a shadow to me I prefer to think that I am just being well prepared rather than just worrying.   :-/

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]tx2sturgis[/font]

Love the turnbuckle idea.  If the budget allows it I will go that direction - just too much good about it to pass it by.

Using what I was able to gather from advice and research this is the layout for staking my tent.  As long as the material doesn't tear it should stand up to any wind that happens there.  Comes to 12 load bearing stakes, 2 stakes for tension on the rain fly and 8 on the base of the tent.  My arm is going to get tired pounding in stakes.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Keep in mind that a strong sideways force imparted to a guyed vertical pole (or tower) becomes a strong downward force. 

It might be a good idea to have a few extra tent poles in case one or two of them collapse under the pressure. 

I've seen this happen!

 

[bullfrog]

Again the reason I use 1/2"x12" carriage bolts and a battery inpact to screw them in and out but at the RTR the ground is rocky so some will have to be hammered. I use the big dead blow hammer from Harbor Freight to finish getting them down. I have a 10'x14' spring-bar Kodiak with 16 stakes.

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]tx2sturgis[/font]

Thanks for that.

I was concerned about broken poles.  The vertical are made of steel but with that much force that doesnt mean much.  I have contacted the company about purchasing extra poles already.  Reason I chose this brand of tent is they stand behind the product.  I read hundreds of reviews, as checking the most negative first, and found that whenever something failed on the tent they replaced it.  still waiting on if they will let me buy any or I will need to do the splint and duct tape first aid.

 

[highdesertranger]

again don't make the guy ropes rigid. put a heavy duty bungee in each guy rope. this allows the tent/tarp to give in the wind and greatly reduces the stress on the material. come by my camp at RTR and you can see. highdesertranger

 

[geogentry]

Again the reason I use 1/2"x12" carriage bolts and a battery inpact to screw them in and out but at the RTR the ground is rocky so some will have to be hammered.  I use the big dead blow hammer from Harbor Freight to finish getting them down.  I have a 10'x14' spring-bar Kodiak with 16 stakes.

That's a nice tent.  will check on that hammer

 

[Ken in Anaheim]

Geogentry; as far as flapping/noisy side walls : take a golf ball *(tennis ball, rock etc.) place in middle of wall material (inside) and gather the material around it and tie it (Outside) ...so you have something to tie to in the middle of the wall (outside). Then tie onto a bungee and stake the bungee to the ground. Should stop the flapping (noise) but still allow the walls to move. 
    * Or use something like this : http://www.shelter-systems.com/gripclips/index.html

KinA

 

[tx2sturgis]

again don't make the guy ropes rigid.  put a heavy duty bungee in each guy rope. 

Rubber tarp straps work good for this too.

 

[geogentry]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Ken in Anaheim[/font]

Good idea.  I really like those grip clips.  Thank You so much