A Different Kind of Hiding Important Stuff

[anewbiewannabe]

Let me preface this with the statement that there will be no illegal drugs in my home at any time. I don't judge those who might have some funny smokes as I think the laws need to be changed, but it's not something I would have myself.

I've been reading the threads about hiding places and legalities and I've not seen a question like mine pop up yet. I'm still kind of unclear about whether hidden compartments are illegal or legal. To add another layer to it, my health is such that I have a prescription for a controlled medication (not any form of cannibis) that I would not want to store someplace that would be easily thought of by someone who might illegally gain access to my van. For LEO I would have to keep it in it's original bottles and they are in my name, but what kind of options do I have on where to store it, remembering that I need to be able to access it without a lot of work involved?

Opinions from those with LE background would be the most appreciated, but I'm willing to consider all ideas.

Thanks!

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

There are commercially made steel lock boxes available.  Check out https://www.tuffyproducts.com

Regards
John

 

[cyndi]

I don't really worry about getting broken into. I keep my scripts in 3 different places.

First, I have a weekly supply all divvied up into a daily/AM/PM pill box

And then I have two stashes, hidden in two different places. I'd be a hurting turkey if all my scripts ended up missing at once. Those are all in the containers with my name on it. One of the stashes isn't very well hidden, in the hopes that the scum that was stealing from me wouldn't look any further. I also keep a small amount of money with that stash.

The other stash is under a lot of stuff way in the back of everything. Thieves like to be in and out, fast. There are certain places they go first. They don't spend a lot of time searching, generally speaking.

 

[Almost There]

I also used to split things up. As a travelling artist I occasionally (too seldom.. ) had more cash than I cared to have in one place.

I found obtuse places in the RV to put things - under the laundry hamper bag in the bathroom, in a hollowed out book in the 'library', etc.

It was a joke with my friends that if they found an envelope marked 'E' they better search high and low until they found the earlier letters of the alphabet. I put the money in envelopes and then labeled them a, b, c, etc.

You can find lots of hiding places that don't constitute a hidden compartment.

And yes, leaving some, whether it's money or prescription drugs, out where they can be easily found, will sometimes allay a further search. Most thieves want to grab and go!

I'd also like to hear some sound advice on the legality of a hidden compartment and what constitutes one. Does having a compartment that opens when the mattress is lifted constitute a 'hidden' compartment or not?

 

[ccbreder]

It is what is in a "hidden" compartment that makes it illegal.

 

[mconlonx]

It is what is in a "hidden" compartment that makes it illegal.

This. 

Nothing wrong with having secret or concealed compartments, but if Law Enforcement has a warrant to search and they know of secret compartments in your environment, they will not be gentle about finding them.

 

[Almost There]

Ahh, then I have nothing to worry about since I don't carry anything that could possibly be misconstrued as being illegal!

I know, I'm such a wuss...

I was beginning to wonder about the law since I have a habit of utilizing every little bit of space and sometimes that means having lids that lift off that are underneath something else. I also like having places to stash things like an extra credit card, my passport when it's not needed and some extra cash.

 

[Matt71]

It's apparently illegal in Ohio, California, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon
http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/16/the-crime-of-having-a-hidden-compartment

 

[Almost There]

It's apparently illegal in Ohio, California, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon
http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/16/the-crime-of-having-a-hidden-compartment

Ahh,  yes, but look at the law wording:

Ohio statute that makes it a crime to “knowingly operate … a vehicle with a hidden compartment … used or intended to be used to facilitate the unlawful concealment … of a controlled substance.”

Personally, I'm not going to worry about it, I drive the speed limit, don't smoke anything, am over retirement age and female, have no criminal record and the only thing I'm wanting to stash is my dirty laundry and a place to keep valuable papers so they're not in my purse.

The only time I've ever had a vehicle searched was at the border a couple of times and none ever turned up anything that got me in trouble.

I'll take my chances. 

 

[Tin Can Express]

It's apparently illegal in Ohio, California, Georgia, Illinois, and Oregon
http://reason.com/archives/2014/02/16/the-crime-of-having-a-hidden-compartment

Interesting....
I wonder how the law would view a small safe? My previous van (it was formerly owned by the local police dept.oddly enough)had a small gun safe mounted to the partition in plain sight.

 

[Matt71]

Interesting....
I wonder how the law would view a small safe? My previous van (it was formerly owned by the local police dept.oddly enough)had a small gun safe mounted to the partition in plain sight.

I don't think a safe qualifies as a "concealed" compartment. Not much different than the glove box.

One thing to keep in mind is that drugs are not the only thing cops might look for. Carrying large quantities of cash can lead an LEO to think you are buying drugs.

I read a story not too long ago about a guy who was on his way to buy a car and had $2000 in cash on him. He got pulled over and the cop asked him if he had money in the vehicle. He said yes, not thinking there was anything wrong with that, and the cop confiscated the cash under suspicion that the guy was going to buy drugs with it. Even though the guy wasn't arrested or even charged with a crime he had to prove the money was not for drugs before he could get it back. 

 

[mconlonx]

I don't think a safe qualifies as a "concealed" compartment. Not much different than the glove box.

One thing to keep in mind is that drugs are not the only thing cops might look for. Carrying large quantities of cash can lead an LEO to think you are buying drugs.

I read a story not too long ago about a guy who was on his way to buy a car and had $2000 in cash on him. He got pulled over and the cop asked him if he had money in the vehicle. He said yes, not thinking there was anything wrong with that, and the cop confiscated the cash under suspicion that the guy was going to buy drugs with it. Even though the guy wasn't arrested or even charged with a crime he had to prove the money was not for drugs before he could get it back. 

Cash: stolen by the cops due to Fed Forfeiture laws. I think there was even a thread regarding this around here somewhere. I believe that Holder told Law Enforcement to quit it, but I wouldn't trust it to be so just yet.

 

[LeeRevell]

There are towns that run this scam. The victims lose the money even though they did nothing wrong.

 

[anewbiewannabe]

So, carrying cash could be a concern on two fronts---thieves and LEOs. I haven't figured out the money thing yet since I won't have a clue what it's going to look like until I get closer to the day.

Then there's that gray area of whether a compartment is concealed or just set up to not be obvious on first glance. Since I'll be in a van I'll be having to use whatever spaces I can find to store things. So then, if a compartment is say beside the cooler and the cooler would have to be pulled out to use it, but it has a door handle of some kind, would that be not obvious or concealed? Answering my own question I'm guessing it depends on the LEO. I'm curious what others think though. I may be over-thinking this, but I'd rather err on the side of keeping my stuff and my home. I won't be in a position to replace either easily.

I reside in one of those states that I wouldn't want to tick an LEO off and then have a compartment found, but like Almost There I've got a few things on my side that will hopefully lessen my concerns.

 

[Almost There]

I reside in one of those states that I wouldn't want to tick an LEO off and then have a compartment found, but like Almost There I've got a few things on my side that will hopefully lessen my concerns.  

Yeah, older and female does have it's advantages some days...blonde works well too...

I worry more about thieves than LEO's because it's not going to be a problem unless you're under suspicion of something. Since I don't speed, my van doesn't smell like weed, and I look like a model citizen, my chances of being pulled over are next to nil.

I've never found the LEO's to be anything other than helpful when I needed them (and yes, I've spent extensive time in the US) so maybe I have a different outlook on it than some of the younger guys around here.

Well, there was the time that we got hassled in somewhere east of nowhere in southern Kentucky and got escorted out of the county but that's a long story for around a campfire somewhere....

I also have to consider the questions at the border...I can't count the number of times I've been questioned going into the US as to how much money I have on me...they want me to have lots of it. I've had to show them how much I'm carrying and then add in the credit available on my credit cards as well. 

 

[anewbiewannabe]

Well, there was the time that we got hassled in somewhere east of nowhere in southern Kentucky and got escorted out of the county but that's a long story for around a campfire somewhere....

I also have to consider the questions at the border...I can't count the number of times I've been questioned going into the US as to how much money I have on me...they want me to have lots of it. I've had to show them how much I'm carrying and then add in the credit available on my credit cards as well. 

OMG! That made me remember a time where I got kicked out of town....well, another story for around a campfire somewhere.

Wow! Border crossings sound like a pain and like they get all up in your business where it seems they ought not. I wonder if it's the same coming from the states into Canada. It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to explore up there and seems like someone told me we need passports to go there now? More research to do. LOL Good thing I started keeping notebooks on stuff already.

 

[wayne49]

OMG! That made me remember a time where I got kicked out of town....well, another story for around a campfire somewhere.  

Wow! Border crossings sound like a pain and like they get all up in your business where it seems they ought not.  I wonder if it's the same coming from the states into Canada.  It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to explore up there and seems like someone told me we need passports to go there now?  More research to do. LOL Good thing I started keeping notebooks on stuff already.  

Canadian border guards will want to know purpose of your visit, and it better not sound at all like paid work; that you aren't smuggling goods in, such as anything in a shopping bag; where you will be traveling/staying in Canada, even the name of the hotel(s). If you are carrying any weapons. Oh, yeah, they consider a jackknife in a toolkit as a weapon. Did not ask me about screwdrivers, though.

The passport requirement was started by the USA, not Canada.

 

[Matt71]

Wow! Border crossings sound like a pain and like they get all up in your business where it seems they ought not.  I wonder if it's the same coming from the states into Canada.  It's been a long time since I've had the opportunity to explore up there and seems like someone told me we need passports to go there now?  More research to do. LOL Good thing I started keeping notebooks on stuff already.  

I think it's the luck of the draw sometimes. I've never been to Mexico before but I've driven back and forth between Michigan to New York via Canada a few times. Sometimes I was asked questions, and sometimes I was waved through. It's been a few years though, so it may be stricter now.

Last I checked, you didn't need a passport for Canada if you had one of the enhanced IDs with the RFID chip in it. I don't think all states have them though, and again, it's been a couple years.

 

[Almost There]

I think it's the luck of the draw sometimes. I've never been to Mexico before but I've driven back and forth between Michigan to New York via Canada a few times. Sometimes I was asked questions, and sometimes I was waved through. It's been a few years though, so it may be stricter now.

Last I checked, you didn't need a passport for Canada if you had one of the enhanced IDs with the RFID chip in it. I don't think all states have them though, and again, it's been a couple years.

Yes, your enhanced ID (drivers' license) will work in place of a passport for entry into Canada. And yes, only the border states have them available. Anyone else will need a passport. The rules all changed after 9 11 happened. It used to be easy peasy.

I'm actually far enough away from the border that it would be a total pain for me to try to get mine - they're only meant for those living near the border and crossing regularly.

How many questions you get asked will depend entirely on the mood of the border guard, how long he/she has been standing in the heat/cold/rain and how many other people have given him a hard time that day...sigh! Oh and it will also depend on what you look like - no they're not supposed to profile but let's face it, a scruffy young guy with a beater for a car is going to get more closely scrutinized than a senior citizen.

Do not try to bring any weapons of any kind, although a penknife is not considered a weapon. Also on the
list of questionable items are certain food products, some of which don't make any sense at all. Citrus products for one - we don't grow them here but don't try crossing the border with them, same with bananas. Potatoes and apples I can see. Be prepared to declare any gifts or anything else that you're leaving behind in Canada.

Basically, it's answer the questions with a straight innocent face, don't lie to them and know the rules before you go and it's simple.

I always have a rougher time coming home to Canada than I do going into the states because they want to know what I'm bringing back. Some have gotten a little sensitive because I have all my receipts in an envelope and the math done - guess I'm taking away from their job. Others are pleased that I know the rules and abide by them..go figure!! 

When any of you are ready to come to Canada by all means, PM me and we can go through the rules for you - make sure you give yourself lots of lead time if you don't have a passport or enhanced DL.

 

[Tin Can Express]

I have also done the Canada route from Michigan to New York often.
Once on Christmas eve (before 9-11) I was surprised to pull up to the check point late at night and finding a sign that read "Closed, Merry Christmas!" taped to the window !
I've also been hassled for importing soil ...... my car had mud on it