6Volt in series question

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mpruet

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If I have two 6-volt batteries in a series resulting in a 12-volt system, do I charge them as a unit as I would an individual 12-volt battery, or do I need to charge each battery separately as a 6-volt battery?  What if I had four 6-volt batteries in a 2 X 2,  serial + parallel configuration?  Would I charge all four as a single 12-volt system?  I'm guessing that I would charge the four as a single 12-volt battery and place the charging clamps on the extreme battery poles.  Am I correct?
 
The two posts you connect in series remain 6 volt batteries and they always will be. Only 6 volt appliances can be connected to them.

The other two posts are now 12 volt and can be used just like any other two posts on any 12 volt battery. Charge it just like you would any other 12 volt battery.
 
Why doesn't anyone use 12v batteries? Seems like some like 6v but then have to mess around. Am I missing something?
 
6v golf cart batteries are true deep cycle batteries. there are very few true 12v deep cycle batteries and they are very expensive. highdesertranger
 
There are actually quite a few trustworthy vendors of true deep cycle 12V.

You just don't find them in big box retail, where "deep cycle" labels are a lying scam.

Even the cheapest Golf Car 6V batteries are known to be at least minimally qualified as True deep cycle, and are easily bought at Sams & Batteries+ for the best value $/AH, even at Costco just not quite as good.

Paying a lot more for 2V, 6V or 12V units from the top-notch vendors is actually worth it for longevity, but only if you have the gear and knowledge to care for them properly.

For beginners or people who can't, or don't care, with the cheap GC2s, if they die early, at least it isn't thousands getting wasted.
 
12v AGM and 12v flooded are not to be put in the same category.

Trojan and USbattery make a group size GC12 'Floor Scrubber' battery. It is a Smidge longer by about 1/2 inch a bit wider by about 1/4 to 3/8" and about an inch taller than a group 31, and about 20 pounds heavier and ~20 more AH capaity 150AH capacity. Pretty sure East penn Deka make a GC12 size too.

These are true flooded deep cycle 12v batteries. Besides Roll$ $urrette, and a few other larger Trojan offerings, i know of no other 12v flooded batteries which Qualify as true deep cycle, but if you've come across in your extensive internet research in the last 6 months, and have a list of these 'quite a few' other 12v true deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries John, bust it out.

PIcking Nits, but the takeaaway is that a easily available flooded Marine/rv/trolling 12v battery, is commonly called/ stickered as a deep cycle battery by their purveyors, is marketing gone wrong and allowing people to misplace their confidence in an inferior product for the task of deep cycling. True deep cycle 12v exist, but not in any of the standard group 24/27/31 sizes

GC2 6v batteries are simply a 12v battery in two 60+ Lb pieces.

The Costco by me sells interstate GC-2 batteries for 84$ a piece. These are infact Trojan t-605 batteries relabelled by interstate, at least in thie region of the country( socal). They, at 58 Lbs are not as durable as t-105s(62 Lbs) which are pretty much the benchmark 6v GC-2 battery, Although USbattery would not be happy with that statement. What Sams club and COstco sell, well they could be made by different manufacturers in different regions of North America, so saying that COstco's lowest price GC-2s are not as good as Sams club GC-2s might or might not be true. Bring a bathroom scale, Heavier is better.

If one likes the Interstate brand, well they can get/order the GC12 size, likely made by USbattery, but most Interstate retailers likely will NOT stock it, and I would not want one if they did as it would likely be old and sulfated even if never used.

Crown makes a GC12 12v flooded battery too, which I would expect to be true deep cycle.

https://www.thesolarbiz.com/media/catalog/product/c/r/Crown-CR-GC150-Data-Sheet.pdf

Interesting that they say minimum recharge amperage is no less than 18 amps, Which is smak dab in the middle of trojans's 10 to 13% recommendation, 10 to 13 amps per 100AH, assuming a plug in charger and 12 hours minimum to recharge. Solar throws a wrench into that recommendation, but more solar wattage is mo Better.

If someone only requires a 150AH capacity battery, versus the ~220AH of a pair of GC-2s in series, then the GC12 size group will not be much more expensive than a group 31 flooded marine battery, and will likely last 2x as many cycles in the same usage patterns.

The 12v flooded marine batteries in the group 31 size would only be superior to the GC-12 in CCA for engine cranking, or powering high inverter loads. Trying to Stuff thick deepcycle plates in a group 31 or smaller size flooded battery casing yields very poor CCA and AH capacity. The easily available 12v flooded marine battery is closer to a starter battery in construction than it is to a deep cycle battery and it is a crime that they market them as 'deep cycle' . That is kind of like calling a campervan a track car, because one could indeed drive it around a track.

AGMS with their lower resistance can have the thicker plates and still yield nearly as many CCA as a flooded starter battery of the same size. Odyssey and Northstar AGM's can smoke other batteries of the same size group In CCA due to their very low resistance, but these are especially finicky as to their recharging regiment when deeply cycled. These thin plate pure lead AGMS prefer to be high amp recharged when deeply cycled.

Low and slow trickle charging AGMS time after time when deep cycling them tickles them to death. Those looking into AGMS would be wise to plan on somehow being able to deliver them at least 30 amps per 100AH of capacity when most depleted, at least once in a while. Odyssye states flat out 40 amps per 100Ah of capacity when deeply cycled. My 90Ah group 27 Northstar responds so well to high amperages. I occassionally intentionally drain it below 50% so that it can gobble 65 amps for longer, and it appears to love this treatement as much as it dislikes the low and slow solar only recharge regiment when deeply cycled.

At this moment, my battery monitor reads 12.0v under a 9.6 amp load, and 45Ah from full. Even at ~600 deep cycles this 90Ah battery is outperforming all the many previous batteries I have cycled to death in the last 16 years, and that includes when I had 230Ah of flooded house battery capacity. Two good quality group 27 Crown flooded marine batteries rarely lasted more than 2 years with my former charging abilities. This single Northstar AGM will turn 4 years old in November this year, but that means I can and do charge it fully, promptly, and often, and often at a very high rate, much to the chagrin of the 'trickle charge everything always' brigade that populate automotive forums, and parrot their unwise imprecision.
 
AGM is the same in one sense, that only a few mfg are trustworthy in having relatively accurate marketing.

Northstar, Lifeline, Odyssey, for PSOC specifically Firefly Oasis, I think that's pretty much it.

Superior and Crown also on the FLA side if not already mentioned with the others.

Rolls/Surette is very likely to have decent AGM offerings, but I don't know if they make them themselves, even more so with Trojan.

I think for me, it's worth avoiding the re-badged stuff, especially vendors like Interstate, unless a consensus builds on particular models from trustworthy sources over time.

SternWake said:
The Costco by me sells interstate GC-2 batteries for 84$ a piece. These are infact Trojan t-605 batteries relabelled by interstate, at least in thie region of the country( socal).
How do you know, how can you tell they are Trojans?

Reports in the East are consistent that they're Johnson Controls, and that variability leads me to avoid them except where Costco is close but Sam's & B+ far away.

But I would really appreciate being convinced otherwise, if there's a reliable way to spot any rebadged Trojans, at least more concrete than bringing scales into the store.

I believe the Duracell GC2s are East Penn nationwide.
 
John61CT said:
How do you know, how can you tell they are Trojans?

Same case shape and size and weight and specs as the t-605.  With Trojan manufacturing batteries in an LA suburb, it kind of makes sense that interstate and costco saw a higher profit potential with Trojan's budget GC-2 for their stores in this region of the country.

 Different color case though and the caps were not individual screw caps but an interconnected levered 3 at once.



The Pair I installed in friend's RV were recently manufactured new, but still took a lot of persuading before their specific gravity maxed out.  I was not impressed with this necessary persuasion, but for 84$ each I am sure they will greatly outlast the more expensive wally world 27's he had in  there previously.

I think Rolls surrette AGM offerings are made in China and are the same as FullRiver AGMS.  Full river AGMS have a good reputation as far as i know.
 
Based on what I have read. Duracell lead acid batteries are a brand licensed to East Penn, and considered a Deka brand. East Penn manufactures many other labels such as Napa, West Marine, and Die Hard. But those brands will make any deal with any manufacturer to insure profit. Transportation is a serious cost when pricing lead acid weight. I have seen a chart that list lead acid battery manufactures and their brands. As of today I haven't relocated the chart.
 
Weight said:
Duracell lead acid batteries are a brand licensed to East Penn, and considered a Deka brand.
I thought more like, Duracell is contracting with EPM to manufacture their batteries.


SternWake said:
Same case shape and size and weight and specs as the t-605.
Performance/quality specs, as in: life cycles vs DoD, SG vs SoC?

See, with East Penn/Duracell, the connection is widely known, in many cases confirmed by tech support calls etc. So in a way EPM's reputation is on the line, presumably they make the Duracell runs to the same QA standards.

With the same "skin in the game" level, I'd put these Costco's above the Duracells for super value, Trojan being a notch above EPM-Deka in my book.

SternWake said:
for 84$ each I am sure they will greatly outlast the more expensive wally world 27's he had in  there previously.
Absolutely, not even same playing field there.

SternWake said:
I think Rolls surrette AGM offerings are made in China and are the same as FullRiver AGMS. Full river AGMS have a good reputation as far as i know.
Yes, very widely respected including in Australia, which has a great alt-energy sector.

And to be honest I'd put a lot of faith just in Roll's word, they'd be idiotic to risk their stellar rep, greatest asset.
 
T-605 can not be compared to 105. A much lessor battery. The only way us commoners can compare is by their pounds of material.
 
John61CT said:
See, with East Penn/Duracell, the connection is widely known, in many cases confirmed by tech support calls etc. So in a way EPM's reputation is on the line, presumably they make the Duracell runs to the same QA standards.

I would not necessarily agree with that.

Years ago, I worked for a place that sold Firestone tires.  In talking with the factory rep, we were told that Firestone did, indeed, make house brand tires for other companies, like Sears and Montgomery Ward.  (I told you it was years ago)  However, Firestone did not just relabel their own tires, instead, Sears and similar stores would come up with their own tire specs and put them up for bid to Firestone, Goodyear, etc. and then give a contract for X number of tires to whoever came in with the best bid.  As long as the tires would be safe, Firestone didn't care what the specs were, they would build them the way Sears wanted them.
 
Yes, and to the extent the top-name OEM de-rates the actual performance in order to build to the price of the "branding" customer, the greater their motivation to HIDE the fact they are the actual manufacturer.

EPM doesn't hide it at all, releases full performance specs, the Sam's GC2 is in fact the exact same battery as the one marketed as Deka.

While IF Trojan is indeed making those Costco units, they have mid-tier remarketer Interstate in between as a cut-out, and likely onerous confidentiality agreements in place.

Which implies to me it may not perform as well wrt longevity as the ones with the Trojan label.

Which doesn't mean they may not be fantastic value for the price, of that I'm sure.

Just that I'm holding off on the "Trojans for peanuts" level excitement until more credible evidence appears in coming years.

And Costco standardizing nationwide would of course be nice too.
 
Eastern Penn is up front about Duracell lead acid being one of their in house brands. The others I mentioned above are made for the store labels and not claimed by EPM. But in the near future, I bet Die Hard batteries will become one of EPM brands. I have done my homework, and I believe that for me, Duracell EGC-2 was the best deal. Price to performance is at the top. EPM has their name on the paperwork.
 
Paulthevanman said:
Why doesn't anyone use 12v batteries? Seems like some like 6v but then have to mess around. Am I missing something?

From what I've seen, cost wise deep cycle 6-volt batteries tend to have higher amp hours than 12-volt.
 
akrvbob said:
The two posts you connect in series remain 6 volt batteries and they always will be. Only 6 volt appliances can be connected to them.

The other two posts are now 12 volt and can be used just like any other two posts on any 12 volt battery. Charge it just like you would any other 12 volt battery.

I think that what you are saying is that I connect my 12 volt appliances to the ends of the series.  Am I understanding correctly?
 
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