6volt batteries questions...

[galladanb]

> he felt like I do that the controller and charger are likely sensing each other and then doing no charging.

This will actually cause no problem,

No problem, other than the result is that the batteries do not get charged when the shoreline is plugged in.

Which is most of the time at base camp, driveway surfing, overnight at the campsites where available.....

 

[Wabbit]

I got my info from some PDF files from East Penn website.

This link is what I used to confirm? what I had read on the net(PDF link). I used measurements given, weight, and ah capacity. The numbers matched what batteriesplus had listed for the batteries I bought there

http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.com/wp-content/uploads/Deka-Pro-Master-Golf-Car-Flyer-0248.pdf

And I got charging parameters from this link. These parameters are for renewable energy uses. PDF link.
http://www.eastpennmanufacturing.co...Renewable-Energy-Charging-Parameters-1913.pdf

Have other PDF files, info from websites, comments on battery reviews(for mine). It all got abit jumbled lol. Hopefully those links work and gives some clue as to how to charge or info on batteries. Please keep in mind that I'm in no way 100% on my info. Double check it and if you see something I missed, please post back. Thnx!

 

[galladanb]

If you want 14.6 volts and the battery gets to 14.6 volts does it matter whose fault it is that the desired 14.6 volts was reached?  At 13.8 volts you can have all available amps.  Why would you want to turn off one source of amps?  Forcing one system to do the charging by disconnecting the other reduces the max amps and makes it so that if you do forget to switch as necessary you get no charge.

One of the functions of the solar charge controller is to stop when the battery is full.  If your two charging systems both saw the battery as full it seems to me appropriate for the charging to stop.  The two charging systems both see the battery voltage.  They don't sense each other.

After adding a half gallon of water the specific gravity should be off the chart low.  Disconnecting charging sources won't fix that.

Point was that I don't know that the batteries actually reached 14.8.
The meter showed various numbers, so I did not suspect an issue was brewing.
And like you, I expected the systems to stop when full. But I'm saying I don't know "IF" they were full or not...

I checked the water levels, filled as needed, then did the hydrometer.
It showed in the upper part of the red "need recharging" area.

 

[Weight]

You can leave your solar connected while the shore power is charging. If shore is not charging, something wrong with your charger. Nothing to do with solar. Here again are charging parameters for East Penn Duracell batteries. https://www.popupportal.com/threads/sams-duracell-gc2-details.111932/

 

[galladanb]

Hey, Wabbitt!
That first link seems to be a sales brochure , but mine is not shown?
And no charge set points either...

The second one doesn't seem to help because I don't know if I have a mono bloc, Or a two cell?
Mine are three cells....

 

[Wabbit]

Where did you buy your batteries? Got a link? The link Weight posted right above you, the popupportal one, that has the East Penn recommendations for my batteries from batteries plus and the batteries from Same Club, the gc2 ones. If yours are 215ah 6v Duracells the charging info in Weights link seems to be what the manufacturer recommends. Mine are tweaked abit.

 

[galladanb]

Where did you buy your batteries? Got a link? The link Weight posted right above you, the popupportal one, that has the East Penn recommendations for my batteries from batteries plus and the batteries from Same Club, the gc2 ones. If yours are 215ah 6v Duracells the charging info in Weights link seems to be what the manufacturer recommends. Mine are tweaked abit.

I bought mine at SAMs club.
I looked at that post which actually is a repost from another forum.
I looked at both duracells and Deja's sites and I can't find charging set points.
Still looking to see if those popaportal specs are any different than the default ones I currently have.....

 

[galladanb]

Ok, my numbers are quite similar to those popaportal numbers.
The different one is the EQ number, mine was 14.8 and the other one is 15.0...
But we already mentioned we are going to run EQ manually anyway.

But.... Regardless, the numbers are a side issue.

I'm more interested in the methods used for charging, not how much.

 

[John61CT]

Authoritative link on these GCs and charge specs: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/duracell-gc2-charging-specs-163920.html#post2092450

 

[John61CT]

> No problem, other than the result is that the batteries do not get charged when the shoreline is plugged in.

Absolutely false, and easy to verify reading volts and amps at the bank.

Ideally all concurrent charge sources same settings, but even that doesn't matter at all, as the earlier float transitions kick in the later one "wins" to keep going.

Only harm comes if a charge source is set wrong, same as if that were the only source.

But if you want to go to all the trouble of **safely** rigging up switches between your sources for no actual benefit, adding complexity and multiple points of failure, suit yourself.

 

[John61CT]

> I don't know "IF" they were full or not...
> I checked the water levels, filled as needed, then did the hydrometer.
> It showed in the upper part of the red "need recharging" area.

Go here and search for "battery monitor" http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects

Best to read everything there when you've the time.

Specific gravity is really for looking for unbalanced cells. Just like voltage, needs to be at rest (isolated), ideally for 24 hours.

Also doing it just after filling with water , different SGs at stratified levels, worse than useless.

Best way to determine 100% Full is to charge at Absorb, and measure declining amps until you hit your desired spec.

Then tell your Battery Monitor the bank is full.

 

[John61CT]

> I'm more interested in the methods used for charging, not how much.

Could you clarify what else you're looking for?

The numbers are everything AFAIC.

Or do you mean like "hook up a known accurate voltmeter and ammeter to your bank". . .

 

[John61CT]

This is the critical measure:

> Absorption End Point = Current change over 1 hour period of less than 0.1A

So at Absorb voltage, 1pm current is 1.2A, at 2pm .5A, at 3pm .3A, the charge source should **hold Absorb**, not drop to Float until the one-hour lowering of charge rate is less than 1/10th of an Amp.

Anything sooner means bank is not 100% Full, and you won't get max # of cycles longevity.

If you have a battery monitor, this is how you know when to **tell it** the bank is full, and that "reset" needs to be done frequently for all AH counting BMs.

But not SmartGauge. Same with accounting for AH capacity walking down over time.

 

[galladanb]

John, I know you think your being helpful and I thank you.

The numbers have been covered, and I stated it was a side issue.
Your last four posts are not helpful to me. I simply don't understand what your saying.

Please simplify, and don't use jargon or abreiavtions. Or assume we can translate into action.
Perhaps find a way to say the same thing differently?

I know your being helpful, but i don't understand. And I'm quite sure there are other readers of this thread in the same position.

 

[galladanb]

Look, let's just go back to my orginal questions please?

So here are some questions...
1.) is it possible the solar controller and the inverter charger are reading each other and then deciding to not charge?
2.) should I isolate each charging system to see if one or the other is failing?
3.) should I isolate all systems and use the garage charger to bring the batteries back up first?
4.) how long should I wait to reuse the hydrometer, to allow the water to mix in properly?

Let's just focus on those... Please set other issues, personalities etc aside for now.

PLEASE.

 

[Wabbit]

I am noob so keep that in mind. And this is what I would do.

1.) It seems like this could be possible but not probable. Keep in mind others have said no. But maybe there is something else going on that is not normally there.
2.) I would.
3.) I would do this first. Get a known quantity on the battery(full), let rest(24hrs if possible), then hydrometer all cells(SG check)
4.) After adding water an equalization would help "mix" battery solution. After equalization and full charge, wait 24 hrs if possible, 4-8hrs prob minimum.

So equalize batteries or recondition, what ever your garage charger wording is. My charger says recondition. Get them to full charge after this(they prob are if garage charger works). Let batteries rest 24 hrs. Take SG measurements from each cell.

 

[Weight]

Look, let's just go back to my orginal questions please?
So here are some questions...
1.) is it possible the solar controller and the inverter charger are reading each other and then deciding to not charge?
2.) should I isolate each charging system to see if one or the other is failing?
3.) should I isolate all systems and use the garage charger to bring the batteries back up first?
4.) how long should I wait to reuse the hydrometer, to allow the water to mix in properly?
Let's just focus on those... Please set other issues, personalities etc aside for now.
PLEASE.

There is no way you can keep personality issues at bay.
1. It should not be. If settings are wrong, maybe. I have not seen this on my system. 120 vac Promariner charger with TriStar solar charge controller.
2. This would be a test and can't hurt anything. I would have done this already.
3. You can't test your chargers if the batteries are fully charged. They do need to be kept above 50%, mostly, and preferably only that low overnight.
4. Use the hydrometer after fully charging the battery. Use the hydrometer every month or week, whatever pleases you, during normal use and recharging operation.
I can't believe John would try to reopen "smartcharger" Perhaps I should notify ramblinrod?

 

[galladanb]

Ok thanks for the input.

I will go perform and report back in a few days.

Thanks everyone! Really! What a great learning resource!

 

[John61CT]

I am writing perfectly clearly, and leave it to you to put some effort into learning the topic-specific terminology, start by googling and you will learn a lot. Plenty of "DC Electrics 101" resources out there, especially marine oriented.

If you still don't understand some statement, ask specific clarifying questions and you will be helped.

-------
> 1.) is it possible the solar controller and the inverter charger are reading each other and then deciding to not charge?

No.

> 2.) should I isolate each charging system to see if one or the other is failing?

Sure for diagnostics, does nothing once each source is working correctly.

> 3.) should I isolate all systems and use the garage charger to bring the batteries back up first?

Garage chargers are usually cr^p, make sure it's adjustable and high amps, depending on the bank.

But yes, shore power gives higher amps, better control, quicker results.

> 4.) how long should I wait to reuse the hydrometer, to allow the water to mix in properly?

The mixing comes from high-amp charging, especially following Equalization protocol.

The resting, ideally 24 hours, is for accuracy of the reading.

 

[highdesertranger]

much better explanation John, much easier to understand, thanks. highdesertranger