2500 v 3500? and what about a cargo trailer???

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LeslieTX

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I’ve posted on here several times. I’m 3-5 years out from getting out of debt, and about 7-9 years to retiring with a minimum pension. Trying to keep my house is very likely out of the question due to high monthly mortgage (from high taxes and insurance); so, I’m planning on hitting the road to live the RV life!

I’ve gone back and forth on picking a vehicle, mostly focusing on Class A vs Class C; briefly considered a travel trailer. The more I read this forum and watch Bob’s videos (and read his book!), the more a cargo van looks likes like my best choice. I have above average mechanical and construction skills, and am happiest when tinkering or building something! After previous questions, I’m leaning towards a Chevy extended cargo van, as new as I can afford, once I’m debt free.

So here’s my questions/thoughts. 2500 or 3500? Thinking 3500 so I can install solar and a hefty battery system, and have option to tow. As some of you may recall from previous post, being able to bug out in the middle of the night without going outside is important to me, but I’m also a prepper and want to carry enough food and supplies for SHTF.

SO here are my thoughts. I’m going to set the van up with a garage (like Wayne? on one of the videos) including residential AC unit, car radiator exhaust fan, storage for tools, generator, etc. The “house” part will have an extra wide bed with battery storage below (shared some space with garage storage). Will also have computer/entertainment center, porta potty, 12 v fridge, and maybe a microwave or 12v grill/skillet. The van will be set up mostly for sleeping, minimum eating and storage.

As funds become available, I will add a cargo trailer to my setup. The trailer will be focused for cooking/food prep/storage; it will also have solar and batteries. I will have the electrical system planned so the van and trailer can share batteries/electricity. I’m think that the “kitchen” will be in the back of the trailer, facing out the back doors (not ramp); that would be cooler when canning, etc. Maybe mount generator on trailer tongue? Propane stored in kitchen.

Kitchen will be separated from the rest of the trailer by a wall (much like the garage in the van). The rest of the trailer will be storage for food, water, clothes, fishing gear, etc. (maybe a gun safe?). 12v freezer or a small 120v chest freezer. My living space would be outside most of the time, and in the van during bad weather.

I would be boondocking 90% of the time and think this system would let me stay out for extended times. Is anyone else set up like this? I’d appreciate any feedback. I’m trying to get this all worked out in my head and on paper, before I start spending money. Pretty much anything i buy for my house, hobbies, etc. are directed toward this plan. For example, I recently bought the Road Pro 12 oven to heat my lunch at work (using 12v adapter).
 
Road Pro ~~~ You can get the pans at WM for much less.

Keep thinking and finding what works for you.   :cool:
 
Hi and welcome...  

One question, you said "[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I’m 3-5 years out from getting out of debt, and about 7-9 years to retiring with a minimum pension" so what is your actual time-frame for buying a van? That makes a difference...  [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I won't comment on your choice of conversion equipment, that's completely up to you and there's too many YouTube videos, Bob's included, to rehash all of that here.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You sound like you are going to be doing about what Bob did with his older 2001 extended van and the cargo trailer that he pulled/converted.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]As far as the differences between a 2500 and a 3500, there's little to speak of other than some payload (maybe 500 pounds higher due to slightly bigger leaf springs for the 3500). Both come with (recent models) the 4.8 gas or the 6.0 gas. Choose which motor based on where you will be driving (flat vs mountains), how much you will be towing (weight wise, little weight ok for 4.8, lots go the 6.0) and if your state considers a 3500 to be a commercial vehicle (some do, some don't, commercial vehicles are more expensive than personal as far as insurance and plates).[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Here's a longer post by a person trying to decide the same thing:[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/...ended-48l-enough-van-or-get-3500-w60l/[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Begin 1st quote:[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]"OK I went to the local chevy dealership and drove 3 different 2011 Express Extended vans:[/font][/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2500 w/ 4.8L[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2500 w/ 6.0L[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]3500 w/ 6.0L[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Chassis:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I liked the 3500 much better than the 2500s. The 2500s were sprung really soft, I was surprised how much body motion there was (and this was unloaded). Without a doubt I want the 3500 vs 2500, even empty the 3500 rode really well. I wouldn't consider it harsh at all.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The rear axles appeared to be identical between all 3 trucks, at least at a quick glance. The 3500 had an extra leaf in the rear spring pack, it was a 4+1 design vs the 3+1 design in the 2500.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Engine:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The 6.0 is a nice motor. Lots of torque, good response, all around I liked it. At 70mph it pulled pretty hard at wide open throttle.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The 4.8 worked well in the city (both of these trucks had the new 6 speed trans). For city driving I think the 4.8 would work just fine, even when loaded. On the xway at 70mph the 4.8 was fine until I mashed it-- it made a bunch of racket but didn't accelerate that hard. It was still faster than my girlfriends 4 cylinder baby SUV, but that's not saying too much. Overall the 4.8L will be "sufficient", but I doubt I'd be happy with it....[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]BUT[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I still don't know the fuel economy difference between the 6.0L and the 4.8L... I thought it would be close but concep29 says that he's getting 18mpg out of his 4.8L 2500 extended (post # 16 http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=859589). I'm not sure how fast he's going , but we are both located out west where the speed limit is 75mph.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]EPA Hwy Fuel Econ #''s:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 2500 4.8L - 17mpg (6spd trans)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 3500 6.0L - 16mpg (6spd trans)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 1500 5.3L - 18mpg (thats with the 4spd trans, not the 6 speed)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2008 1500 5.3L - 16mpg (I'm not sure why the 2011 get 2mpg more than the seemingly identical 2008)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2008 F150 5.4L - 17mpg (my previous pickup- I got 16-16.5mpg on the xway)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]If I assume that I'll get about 1mpg less on the xway than the EPA rating, and assuming that the 2008 models get about 1mpg worse than the 2011 models, that puts my fuel economy estimate at 15mpg for the 4.8L and 14mpg for the 6.0L.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $285 per year more with the 6.0L. Probably worth it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $333 per year more with the 6.0L. Still worth it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $4/gallon = $380 per year more with the 6.0L. Hmmm[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $5/gallon = $476 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Best case scenario: 4.8L get 18mpg, 6.0L gets 15:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $667 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $778 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $4/gallon = $889 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $5/gallon = $1111 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Worst case scenario: 4.8L get 14mpg, 6.0L gets 12:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $714 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $833 per year more with the 6.0L. Happy I got the 4.8L"[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]end of 1st quote[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2nd quote, same thread:[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Hey Everyone,[/font][/font][/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I'll post a full cargo van to motovan  post soon, but in the meantime here is the short version:[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- I bought the 2007 3500 w/6.0L and 3.73 rear end.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- Over the past 2200 miles of pure xway driving I've averaged 15.3mpg.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- I've been driving about 73mph to save fuel.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- 15.3 mpg is with supermoto on a hitch carrier (the wheels stick out a bit into the airflow)[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- Headwind vs tailwind is a huge factor in the fuel economy."[/font][/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]end of 2nd quote[/font][/font][/font]
 
LeslieTX,

Have you decided between the 4.8 and the 6.0 engine or will that be dependent on whether you go 2500 / 3500?

I'm looking forward to feedback on your questions because I'm wrestling with the same decisions/

Matt
 
Hi and welcome...  

One question, you said "[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I’m 3-5 years out from getting out of debt, and about 7-9 years to retiring with a minimum pension" so what is your actual time-frame for buying a van? That makes a difference...  [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I won't comment on your choice of conversion equipment, that's completely up to you and there's too many YouTube videos, Bob's included, to rehash all of that here.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]You sound like you are going to be doing about what Bob did with his older 2001 extended van and the cargo trailer that he pulled/converted.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]As far as the differences between a 2500 and a 3500, there's little to speak of other than some payload (maybe 500 pounds higher due to slightly bigger leaf springs for the 3500). Both come with (recent models) the 4.8 gas or the 6.0 gas. Choose which motor based on where you will be driving (flat vs mountains), how much you will be towing (weight wise, little weight ok for 4.8, lots go the 6.0) and if your state considers a 3500 to be a commercial vehicle (some do, some don't, commercial vehicles are more expensive than personal as far as insurance and plates).[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Here's a longer post by a person trying to decide the same thing:[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/...ended-48l-enough-van-or-get-3500-w60l/[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Begin 1st quote:[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]"OK I went to the local chevy dealership and drove 3 different 2011 Express Extended vans:[/font][/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2500 w/ 4.8L[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2500 w/ 6.0L[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]3500 w/ 6.0L[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Chassis:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I liked the 3500 much better than the 2500s. The 2500s were sprung really soft, I was surprised how much body motion there was (and this was unloaded). Without a doubt I want the 3500 vs 2500, even empty the 3500 rode really well. I wouldn't consider it harsh at all.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The rear axles appeared to be identical between all 3 trucks, at least at a quick glance. The 3500 had an extra leaf in the rear spring pack, it was a 4+1 design vs the 3+1 design in the 2500.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Engine:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The 6.0 is a nice motor. Lots of torque, good response, all around I liked it. At 70mph it pulled pretty hard at wide open throttle.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]The 4.8 worked well in the city (both of these trucks had the new 6 speed trans). For city driving I think the 4.8 would work just fine, even when loaded. On the xway at 70mph the 4.8 was fine until I mashed it-- it made a bunch of racket but didn't accelerate that hard. It was still faster than my girlfriends 4 cylinder baby SUV, but that's not saying too much. Overall the 4.8L will be "sufficient", but I doubt I'd be happy with it....[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]BUT[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I still don't know the fuel economy difference between the 6.0L and the 4.8L... I thought it would be close but concep29 says that he's getting 18mpg out of his 4.8L 2500 extended (post # 16 http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=859589). I'm not sure how fast he's going , but we are both located out west where the speed limit is 75mph.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]EPA Hwy Fuel Econ #''s:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 2500 4.8L - 17mpg (6spd trans)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 3500 6.0L - 16mpg (6spd trans)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2011 1500 5.3L - 18mpg (thats with the 4spd trans, not the 6 speed)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2008 1500 5.3L - 16mpg (I'm not sure why the 2011 get 2mpg more than the seemingly identical 2008)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2008 F150 5.4L - 17mpg (my previous pickup- I got 16-16.5mpg on the xway)[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]If I assume that I'll get about 1mpg less on the xway than the EPA rating, and assuming that the 2008 models get about 1mpg worse than the 2011 models, that puts my fuel economy estimate at 15mpg for the 4.8L and 14mpg for the 6.0L.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $285 per year more with the 6.0L. Probably worth it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $333 per year more with the 6.0L. Still worth it.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $4/gallon = $380 per year more with the 6.0L. Hmmm[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $5/gallon = $476 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Best case scenario: 4.8L get 18mpg, 6.0L gets 15:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $667 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $778 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $4/gallon = $889 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $5/gallon = $1111 per year more with the 6.0L. Ditto[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]Worst case scenario: 4.8L get 14mpg, 6.0L gets 12:[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3/gallon = $714 per year more with the 6.0L. I'll deal with the 4.8L.[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]20000 miles/year at $3.5/gallon = $833 per year more with the 6.0L. Happy I got the 4.8L"[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]end of 1st quote[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]2nd quote, same thread:[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]"Hey Everyone,[/font][/font][/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]I'll post a full cargo van to motovan  post soon, but in the meantime here is the short version:[/font]


[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- I bought the 2007 3500 w/6.0L and 3.73 rear end.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- Over the past 2200 miles of pure xway driving I've averaged 15.3mpg.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- I've been driving about 73mph to save fuel.[/font]

[font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- 15.3 mpg is with supermoto on a hitch carrier (the wheels stick out a bit into the airflow)[/font]
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]- Headwind vs tailwind is a huge factor in the fuel economy."[/font][/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif][font=Tahoma, sans-serif]end of 2nd quote[/font][/font][/font]


Oh, some power information: (From GM website) -

begin quote

"The third generation of Chevrolet Express returned on the US market, offering a choice of five engines: a 4.3L V6 unit (195 hp at 4600 rpm and 260 lb-ft at 2800 rpm of torque), a 4.8L V8 unit (279 hp at 5700 rpm and 294 lb-ft at 4000 rpm of torque), a 5.3L V8 unit (301 hp at 5200 rpm and 325 lb-ft at 4000 rpm of torque), a 6.0L V8 unit (323 hp at 4400 rpm and 373 lb-ft at 4000 rpm of torque), and a 6.6L V8 turbo-diesel unit (250 hp at 3200 rpm and 460 lb-ft at 1600 rpm of torque)." end quote
 
This world isn said:
Hi and welcome...  

One question, you said "[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I’m 3-5 years out from getting out of debt, and about 7-9 years to retiring with a minimum pension" so what is your actual time-frame for buying a van? That makes a difference...  [/font]
I'm not going to buy until I pay off my credit cards and current car note; hopefully about 4 years from now. My plan is to buy used, something 5 years max with low mileage. My credit is good and I can finance while still employed, with the plan to pay off note when the house is sold.
 
hangtownmatt said:
LeslieTX,

Have you decided between the 4.8 and the 6.0 engine or will that be dependent on whether you go 2500  / 3500?

I'm looking forward to feedback on your questions because I'm wrestling with the same decisions/

Matt

I'm leaning toward the 3500/6.0. Depends on what is readily available when it comes time to buy. The mileage isn't that much difference for me to worry about, and I'll never be cranking along at 70 mph! I stay off the interstates and hit the back roads.
 
I bought a new 2016 Sprinter. I went with the 2500 170. I figured it would be plenty of space for my build, and it was...sort of. WEIGHT is a bigger issue than space!!! I just sold my brand new 2500 Sprinter and now I'm buying a 3500. If you want to do a very basic build, then a 2500 is just fine. But if you want to do more than that I HIGHLY recommend the 3500. A very very costly mistake on my part. Everyone talks about space of one size over the other but not nearly as much about the weight. Most 2500 diy conversions are WAY over the weight limit. My 2500 gave me about 2,800 lbs to work with and my 3500 gives mean about 5,100.
Create an excel sheet and start putting in all the weights for everything you want to put in it. Don't forget about wiring, food, water, insulation, flooring, bed mattress etc... It all adds up very fast.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Oops, sorry forum members about re-copying the entire first post just to add the HP and torque figures for the 4.8 vs the 6.0 engines...  :s  Suffice to say the 6.0 seems to be the motor of choice if you are heavily laden and towing... If just one of those then the 4.8 will likely do...

Anyway, if you have that much time before you even consider purchasing, don't spend too much mental energy debating 2500 vs 3500 or 4.8 vs 6.0. Things can really change, both for your vehicle choices (the newer full-sized Euro van style Ford Transit and whatever GM decides to come out with by then may temp you.  Great economy and standing room...
 
Welcome aboard Leslie!
Planning stage is a lot of fun.
You get to change your mind as you learn and it doesn't cost a cent..
Ask as many questions as you want , won't bother us a bit.!
 
start becoming a minimalist now while you have time it will save you a LOT of money when it comes time to go road. since you have a house you can do something like live out of one room, or something like that.
 
I have a 2010 1 ton extended GMC Savana with the 4.8 L and 6-speed tranny.

I can get up to 18 mpg on the hwy. Overall doing about 70/30 hwy/city driving I'm averaging about 16 mpg with solar racks and a cargo bag on top. I think I'm probably moderately loaded up.

On the mountains the speed lags a bit at first (lower torque in that engine) but generally picks up at the end well. At times I think it would be nice to have the 6.0 but I assume that it would cost 1-2 mpg with gas. The 4.8 L is working fine for me. On the hwy its perfect.



I'm not towing anything, though.  That might change matters.

If you can find an extended version I would go for it. Space disappears quickly.
 
a thought about your outside kitchen. cooking outside is great, I love to cook outside, just as long as the weather is good. what are you going to do in the rain, wind, cold, and snow. this is especially true if the storm lasts for days and days. highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
a thought about your outside kitchen.  cooking outside is great, I love to cook outside,  just as long as the weather is good.  what are you going to do in the rain,  wind,  cold, and snow.  this is especially true if the storm lasts for days and days.  highdesertranger

When I cooking outside, I'll be canning or prepping meals to freeze. I'll have a microwave and toaster oven, inside for prepared meals during bad weather..
 
micro or toaster oven food for days? how are you going to power the electric appliances? highdesertranger
 
highdesertranger said:
micro or toaster oven food for days?  how are you going to power the electric appliances?  highdesertranger

Actually most of the meals I prep can be heated in a pot of boiling water or the RoadPfro oven: I vacuum seal some meals in bags that can easily be reheated in a pot of boiling water on a Coleman; I also found these food storage pans on amazon that fit perfectly in the RoadPro oven. As far as electrics, I plan on having a 20K watt battery bank. I will also have a generator if needed.
 
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