20' Box van conversion questions 1. Electrical 2. Mom's attic 3. Roll up back door

[RenataAllison]

The van I am going to look at Thursday has a mom's attic. It is 20' box van and has an access door to the cab. It has a rollup door in the back. I am not sure if it rolls up to a circle or if it goes up like a garage door. I know the key to success is to plan well before you start. So I need help evaluating some possibilities. I want to go more tiny home initially, but I will want to go stealth camping much later.

I have been watching JYDOG on YouTube, which has been good. However, he does not go into the level of detail I would like at times. If you have reccomendations for other YouTube channels please let me know.


1. Electrical questions and considerations

Initially I want to wire this for AC for hook up at an RV or mobile home park. While I know quite a bit about car repairs, electrical work is above my pay grade. 30 amp versus 50 amp what do I need. Which is better? Down the road I will want to do solar but this is not financially possible in the beginning. I will not be installing a shower or toilet (I know about the bucket).

I have 2 cats and summers in TN can get pretty warm and humid. It will be worse once I can transfer to New Orleans. So AC is a must. In winter, can I do electric space heaters on 30 amp. I will probably do a small mini fridge until I convert to solar. I would have a small microwave.

2. Mom's attic

I have no idea how to best utilize that space. Could a window ac unit go there and if so how would I vent it without allowing the elements inside. If an ac unit will not work there, it can't go on the back which is a rollup door. I know nothing about roof units and how they work or how expensive they are.

3. Roll up door.

IF it rolls up in a small circle that's easy frame off the back and install a door.

If it is more like a garage style, what have other people done? I am concerned that if I insulate the ceiling, the door won't open. If I wall it off the only access will be through the cab in the front. Has anyone had experience with this issue? What did you do?

I am just getting started on this journey. My roommate has left me in a difficult situation. I have to get out of the apartment. I can cover rent for 2 more maybe 3 months. I work 6 days a week and 55 hours. So this is gonna be a huge task as I have no one to call on for help. I will be doing all of the build on my own except maybe the electrical. Then I will be hiring someone.

All suggestions are appreciated!

Renata




Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[TMG51]

Build your bed in the mom's attic, save floor space.
Wall off the roll-up door, insulate, and remove whatever track/hardware from the ceiling. Install an RV style door (either in the now-static roll up door, or on the side).

 

[RenataAllison]

Thank you for the suggestions.


Do you have any links or suggestions on tth e best way to secure the roll up door and cutting the rollup to install a door.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[anewbiewannabe]

Renata,

Sounds like a fun platform to work with. If it weren't for it being more than I want I'd consider a box van just for the fun of designing it. If I was closer and able, I'd volunteer to help with the design/build.

Anyhow, nomadic electrical is above my pay grade too so I'm no help there.

I'm only guessing what a Mom's attic is-an extension of the box over the cab of the truck?

When I had reliable internet I saw a few box trucks that kept the roll up door and put in a wall with door/windows. When roll door down nobody would realize the cool porch or garage behind it. I personally would keep the door, but that's just my choice.

There's an awesome box truck conversion with the roll door kept on the forum here. It's Putts. Very detailed thread with all aspects he's done. Sorry I don't have the link but search for Putts.

Best Wishes!

 

[Technomad]

That sounds like a pretty ideal vehicle in terms of the box. It also sounds like a used Uhaul. Wherever it comes from be sure to get the engine checked out— don’t want that to be an anchor around your neck.

I’d be curious as to who is selling it— very few boxtrucks with cab access and peaks (mom’s attic in Uhaul marketing) in Texas.

The easy solution to safe electrical is to use off the shelf power. You likely won’t be getting into RV parks with that rig (no judgement I want to build the same thing). So shore power is going to be plugging into your friends house— in that case it’s extension cords and power strips. Make sure the power strip has a fuse and don’t overdo it. (The typical 120V plug is rated for about 20 amps which is 20 1,000 watt microwaves at once— but power tools and heaters are a lot higher— if you use an AC heater only use one.... until you can work out every link in your chain supports sufficient current.)

Usually RVs with a 30 amp plug have an adapter for 50 amp. RVs with a 50 amp plug cannot use 30 amps. But you don’t care until you do wiring— you just need a 30 amp to 20 amp adapter.

But your real problem is going to be AC. It’s going to need to run 24/7 in New Orleans (Well would be if you were me, I can’t handle the heat.). That means you’ll have to be parked at a place with power every day. The battery to support boon docking would be huge.

These aren’t good portable homes unless you spend big bucks to make them one.

These kinda rigs generally work better if you are following the weather, or a nomad, or have disposable income. If money is tight and you have to park yourself in a city, you will probably be better off getting an apartment.

Every life support system is cheaper in apartments. And a conversion means being able to drop $1k-$3k if your engine needs serious work... not having the cash on hand risks losing the whole vehicle, and then you’re homeless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RenataAllison]

My day job is in automotive as a service manager with a national chain, so I get a pretty sweet discount on tires and repairs. I can check out the engine myself. It runs but it needs a master cylinder and 4 rear tires and a battery.

A mechanic at another store gave me the heads up on this as his buddy is thinking about selling it. So it is not even listed anywhere. I am waiting for his buddy to get the vin, Tire size and mileage for me. It is supposed to be low miles. The 1st owner only drove It on weekends to flea markets and the current second owner says it has been maintained religiously up until it got parked 6 months ago for a bad master cylinder. He used it in his cabinet business. My mechanic friend is the one who drove it and parked it 6 moths ago. I don't have a heavy duty enough jack and jack stands to shake down the front end but I might buy a set Tuesday anyways as I will need it eventually. I like having excuses to buy tools. Lol.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Technomad]

Haha, sounds like you’re in better shape than it sounded originally. One nice thing about boxes, if the vehicle dies you can drop it on a new cab-chassis.

I may have been wrong in my assumption that RV shore power was 120V, it may be 240V which will make your electrical even harder.

By the way, was at Home Depot last night and insulating a 16 foot box (ignoring the peak) is about $260 per inch of thickness. I had planned to do three inches, and I’m able to follow the weather.

If you have basically unlimited shore power from a friend, you could run an extension cord and use a portable AC — lots of them in Amazon for around $800. Also works as a heat pump in the winter. It just needs a hole to vent outside.

Alternatively but with more work to install, you could put in a split AC, sometimes called a mini-split.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RenataAllison]

Yeah I don't have to drive it anywhere to change the oil or most basic maintenance. Unless my 5' 2" self just can't get to what i need to reach with reasonable effort. Lol.

I.e. I will not be doing a mission impossible style drop from above to reach the back of the engine compartment. Lol.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[John61CT]

Lots of the the portable AC units aren't worth a hill of beans.

Only some of the two-hose ones are at all effective.

If you need cheap, a window unit's the way to go, can be put on a heavy-duty slider setup if needed.

 

[Almost There]

1. Electrical questions and considerations

Initially I want to wire this for AC for hook up at an RV or mobile home park. While I know quite a bit about car repairs, electrical work is above my pay grade.  30 amp versus 50 amp what do I need. Which is better? Down the road I will want to do solar but this is not financially possible in the beginning. I will not be installing a shower or toilet (I know about the bucket).

You most likely won't need anything more than 30 amp. Most RV parks/campgrounds now offer both on the pole. The 50 amp service is needed for the larger RV rigs that have 2 a/c units and the owners want to run both at the same time and also run their microwave and washing machine etc. etc.

30 amp is plenty for the size of rig you're having - yes, you won't be able to run both microwave and a/c at the same time but who cares, really!

You will want to carry a 30 to 15 amp adapter for those times you're driveway surfing and need to plug in to a regular outlet.

All RV power is 120V, 240 is used in s&b for stoves btw and for industrial uses ( to clarify someones earlier post confusion.)

I have 2 cats and summers in TN can get pretty warm and humid. It will be worse once I can transfer to New Orleans. So AC is a must. In winter, can I do electric space heaters on 30 amp. I will probably do a small mini fridge until I convert to solar. I would have a small microwave.

You can run an electric heater on 30 amp, you might have to shut it off when you run the microwave. Since you're starting from scratch you'd be better off looking at either a propane/12V/120 fridge or a 12V/120V compressor fridge unit that using a mini fridge. More costly to start but much more efficient and cost effective in the long run.

2. Mom's attic

I have no idea how to best utilize that space. Could a window ac unit go there and if so how would I vent it without allowing the elements inside. If an ac unit will not work there, it can't go on the back which is a rollup door. I know nothing about roof units and how they work or how expensive they are.

The mom's attic will make an excellent loft bed area for you or if you don't want to climb a ladder to get in and out of bed, then using it as storage is a great idea. A window a/c unit might go up there but it would be sticking out in front of your windshield and will have to be braced somehow. It might be rather unattractive from the outside viewpoint and certainly won't allow any stealth camping.

The roll up door will likely only go less than half-way across the inside roof leaving you lots of room for a roof a/c.

Roof RV units are definitely more expensive than household window units but they are meant to take the vibration of road travel that the window units aren't built for.

3. Roll up door.

IF it rolls up in a small circle that's easy frame off the back and install a door.

If it is more like a garage style, what have other people done? I am concerned that if I insulate the ceiling, the door won't open. If I wall it off the only access will be through the cab in the front. Has anyone had experience with this issue? What did you do?

Chances are that the door is garage style. See Putts build for how he concealed the door track and space needed inside a false ceiling in his truck. I agree with leaving it in place and putting a wall inside that contains a regular person door and/or windows. If you build it a foot or so inside the roll-up door you can use the area for outside gear storage like lawn chairs etc.

I am just getting started on this journey. My roommate has left me in a difficult situation. I have to get out of the apartment. I can cover rent for 2 more maybe 3 months. I work 6 days a week and 55 hours. So this is gonna be a huge task as I have no one to call on for help. I will be doing all of the build on my own except maybe the electrical. Then I will be hiring someone.

Electrical is not all that difficult to learn. Lots of people here who can help you make it understandable.

 

[tx2sturgis]

30 amp service (120v) will run a small to mid size A/C with power to spare for miscellaneous items, but not an A/C and microwave or microwave and large space heater at the same time.

50 amp service (240v) WILL run 2 A/C units and a microwave and other items. It's probably way more than a conversion will need. 

As far as the roll-up door: all of these trucks use a standard torsion spring garage style rear door, and there is a LOT of force in that spring. You will need tools and knowledge or help to safely remove that system. Any overhead door repair shop or truck/trailer shop could remove it for you.

If you try it yourself and don't know how to safely unwind the springs you can get SERIOUSLY hurt. I'm not kidding. 

Be careful.

 

[RenataAllison]

Didn't know that about the springs on the doors, so thank you!!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Technomad]

Regarding 50 amp service being 120v or 240v -- you're both right! It has two circuits 180 degrees out of phase with each other with a common between them. So if you just take voltage across the two hot wires, you get 240V, or you can use it as two separate 120V circuits.

Here's details: http://www.myrv.us/electric/Pg/50amp_Service.htm

 

[MrAlvinDude]

A few notes about the electric.

- As always - fuses are used to protect the wires from over-heating and creating a fire hazard.
Fuses always refer to the amperage of the plug/wire, not the voltage. So when you plan your electric, it is of importance to know what kind of fuses (and their amp numbers) are involved with what kind of RV plugs.

Otherwise you might use a simple plug converter, and you will have created a fire hazard for yourself.


* A 50-amp RV plug will allow 50 amps in the wires.
So it is vital that a 50-amp plug and 50-amp extension cord be used, and then followed by an appropriate fuse/breaker box, that can spread out to the standard 15-amp sockets, plugs and splitters used for household appliances.  This breaker box will typically be placed in the RV.
The breaker box will contain 15-amp breakers/fuses, so the wiring is again protected by appropriate size fuses, that will protect them from overheating.


* A 30-amp RV plug will allow 30 amps in the wires. 
So it is quite important that a 30-amp plug and 30-amp extension cord be used, and then followed by an appropriate fuse/breaker box, that can spread out to the standard 15-amp sockets, plugs and splitters used for household appliances.  This breaker box will typically be placed in the RV. 
The breaker box will contain 15-amp breakers/fuses, so the wiring is again protected by appropriate size fuses, that will protect them from overheating.


- If you chose to use those plug converters or y-splitters, you should only plug in ONE appliance at the end of the extension cord. As ONE standard appliance will never draw more power than a standard 15-amp socket/plug/extension cord can handle


- If you chose to use a splitter, at the end of an extension cord (after using a plug converter or y-splitter) then you take upon yourself to make sure that no more than 15 amp is being transported in those standard household extension cords. 

15 amp at 125V gives a maximum of 1875W. 

So if you use beefy extension cords and beefy 3-way splitters, then you could plug in a heater (1500W) and a laptop (125W) and a cellphone charger (10W), as this is still under the maximum of the 1875W. 

---

So my advice is, to read (and re-read) the pages about 50-amp and 30-amp services on the site that Technomad has referred to, until you feel that you have a practical level of understanding of how to simplest and easiest do the 120V installation in your van. 


I especially have noted the "For BASIC HOW to WIRE a 30-amp Service Click on and Print out the following page and hand it to the person installing it". As it seems that it is not common knowledge (even among electricians) of how to correctly wire things for the 30-amp RV plug, as it is NOT a 240V/120V standard way of doing things. 

--- 

The simple way, is to install a breaker box with one 15-amp breaker, and one loop to all the 110V sockets in you van. 
This way you can draw power from a friends house using a standard extension cord. Or you can safely plug into a 30-amp or 50-amp RV service - using plug converters - and all of your standard wires and extension cords will still be protected by your one 15-amp breaker. 


It is only if you would like to be able to power more than 1875W, at the same time, that the breaker box configuration would need more than one 15-amp breaker.
And it is only if you want to be able to have all of your 110V sockets be active, no matter if you are hooked to a house, or RV pole or 12V inverter, that we need to think in advanced design/configuration options.

 

[LoupGarou]

If you can source insurance before, during and after the fitout/conversion, the rest is easy. If it has a transparent fiberglass roof, don't purchase it.

 

[RenataAllison]

What is the problem with transparent fiber glass roof?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Trebor English]

What is the problem with transparent fiber glass roof?

In the summer it gets hot.  Cracks, leaks, are more likely than a conventional roof.

 

[RenataAllison]

Given the guy has been using it to store cabinets for his business and it is late 80's model I doubt it will be.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Technomad]

BTW- I believe in counting your watts and only using a circuit up to %80 of its capacity. It’s like a river with many branches— small branches (eg small wires) can’t handle trying to pull the Mississippi thru them.

Voltage is akin to water pressure, amperage is like a measurement of the number of gallons going down the river.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RenataAllison]

Is there a sealant or anything that can be done to prevent cracking and leaks?

I will be insulating the ceiling, walls and floors with polyiso. Will a direct glue to the ceiling with 3m77 provide stability or protection.

I look at it tomorrow and it is a yellow translucent fiberglass but has no leaks at present. Other than the roof everything else is exactly what I am looking for.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk