1990 Ford E150 Econoline Van

[H0neybug]

I figured this was as good a place as any to seek a solution.

Our 1990 E150 van starts and runs great.  When we stop after driving maybe an hour the van will start, but will die either shortly after or inconveniently 5 miles down the road on the highway.

Now if we stop and don’t turn the engine off we have no problems at all, matter of fact we drove her all the way back from Colorado to Kansas City without turning her off and she was fine.

We took her in to the shop on Friday and they replaced 2 of the 3 fuel pumps, the filter and a switch.  

On Saturday morning we decided to take a test run about 3 hours from the house.  After starting her and barely going half a block she died, which she’s never done in the past.  She started up again after just a few minutes and we figured it was just a fluke, air in the fuel line or something.  Needless to say we get about 100 miles down the road, stop to use the restroom, she starts no problem, get on the highway and about 5 miles downbeat the road she died.

It took about 35 minutes of trying and a jumpstart and she started back up and we took her back home and to the shop.

The mechanic can’t recreate what is happening.  

Has anyone else had a similar issue with a ford van or truck and found a solution?  I’ve found plenty of people online posting similar issues with the same era vehicle, but no hardfast solution.

Any help would be appreciated...we can’t just keep throwing money and never find the solution.

 

[bullfrog]

Are you sure it is a fuel problem? Have you tried to see if it restarts or at least hits on one or two cylinders after spraying Gumout carb cleaner in the intake as an indepentent fuel sorce? Mounting a fuel pressure guage where it can be observed while it won't start would work also. What you are describing may be related to what is known as a heat soak problem sort of. Low fuel pressure can be a factor in causing vapor lock which is an air bubble that forms in a fuel line causing the vehicle to die due to lack of fuel. First step is to insure it is definitely a fuel supply problem as heat can also affect electrical componets as well. I have not worked on anything newer than 1985 when it comes to Fords so maybe someone else could do better answering your question, but making sure it is a fuel problem would be the first step.

 

[highdesertranger]

yes it sounds like a heat soak problem. when it does it you need to check for spark and fuel, to narrow it down. just guessing it would say the ICM. highdesertranger

 

[bigskybob]

I once had a similar problem with a Ford 302 engine.Turned out to be a crankshaft position sensor.Good Luck.

 

[jasper]

Diesel?

 

[DannyB1954]

I wonder if you could be getting vapor lock in the fuel rack. The engine getting hotter after it shuts down is normal, (the water pump no longer circulates water).
But that does not really explain why after a 100 miles it would do that. I wonder if Ford put in a sensor that can shut down the engine for a perceived problem, (like a high temp sensor).

 

[steamjam1]

I would start by pulling the codes off the ECU. Youll need a piece of wire and a test light. Its a 1990 so its OBD-1.

Where I would go from there depends on how the engine stalls. Does the van start to stumble and then stall, or does it just suddenly die?

 

[H0neybug]

So after 3 days at the mechanic before they could reproduce the van dying they diagnosed it as the ignition modual as @highdesertranger mentioned.

This weekend we took it for a 100 mile drive around the interstate, stopped and got gas, drove to another store no problem. We were so excited the problem appeared to be fixed after dropping another $525.

Today we drove it just over an hour out of town, visited with some family for almost 3 hours. On the way home, back on the highway, she died again...waited 5 minutes she starts goes 100 yards, dies again, repeats one more time, the third time she starts up, doesn’t die and takes us all the way home.

We’ve thrown $1800 at this this month only to have the same problem over and over with no rhyme or reason. The good thing is she always starts (knocking on wood), but I assume eventually she won’t.

Other symptoms to note: the thermostat sporadically goes to high, but the engine doesn’t overheat, the check engine light comes on when she’s running again, goes off when we shut it off and doesn’t come back on.

We’ll be taking it back in to the mechanic again, but I’m stumped at how to get the van to recreate the symptoms each time.

 

[H0neybug]

 Does the van start to stumble and then stall, or does it just suddenly die?

It stumbles and then dies

 

[bullfrog]

I have often used a heat gun or even a hair dryer on electrical componets to recreate heat soak problems. Hopefully the check engine light will have set a code that will help find the problem area. I have put a light in the 12 volt ignition circuit as well so I can see that primary voltage is present when the problem causes the engine to die, I have also hooked up a timing light and routed the wires so I can observe it as I drive. When it dies does the check engine light come on and stay on or does it die without any check engine or warning lights coming on as you coast to the side of the road? Sometimes a bad module is caused by an electrical malfunction in another electrical componet in the system. As to the thermostat, I assume your refering to a temperature guage reading high or does an overheat light come on? How do you know what the engine temperature actually is? If the gauge or light is malfunctioning does it malfunction the same time the engine dies?

 

[H0neybug]

Hopefully the check engine light will have set a code that will help find the problem area.  

The check engine light never stays on long enough for it to be tested by the mechanic.

 When it dies does the check engine light come on and stay on or does it die without any check engine or warning lights coming on as you coast to the side of the road?  

The light comes on just like when the vehicle first comes on, once it is dead, not stumbling, it doesn’t stay on when we try to restart or when it does start again.

 As to the thermostat, I assume your refering to a temperature guage reading high or does an overheat light come on?  

The guage age is reading high.

How do you know what the engine temperature actually is?  

We have not had any symptoms of overheating, steam or antifreeze running out and mechanic tested heat when the gauge showed hot for them as well.

If the gauge or light is malfunctioning does it malfunction the same time the engine dies?

nope...no correlation between the 2...the gauge goes up but always comes back down with no over heating symptoms.  Usually when she dies is 5-9 miles when traveling at highway speeds again.  

 

[B and C]

Your van has an OBD connector under the hood and does store codes. Light does not have to be on for codes to be retrieved. Google searched.

Ford Owners
You can check their check engine light using the diagnostic connector located at the engine compartment by the fender near the battery. Getting the obd1 codes need a couple of tools: a 4 inch long gage 16 jumper wire and a 12 volt test light.
Both tools are hooked up to the diagnostic connector and when the ignition key is turned on (without starting engine) the codes will begin to flash in the test light, not in the dash panel. If there is no code, you will normally get code 11 or 111. On Fords, there are 2 test modes, the KOEO (key on engine off) and the KOER (key on engine running). Both test modes should be used to get the accurate evaluation of the stored fault codes.

 

[bullfrog]

Getting the code as mentioned in the post above may give some direction and checking connections won't hurt. I won't make a guess as I have not touched a Ford since the 80's. Best to hit the Ford fourms.

 

[jasper]

I once had a similar problem with a Ford 302 engine.Turned out to be a crankshaft position sensor.Good Luck.

Blather about the above good advice:

There is a sensor (PIP/crankshaft position) in the distributor that very often causes your symptoms.  Although replaceable, the difficulty doing so generally makes replacing the distributor more common.  I would think on your 1990 the replacement ignition module was mounted on the distributor rather than behind your battery?  That module receives pulses from the PIP sensor, also called the stator assembly by parts houses. An oscilloscope is required to genuinely diagnose a PIP sensor fault.  A replacement distributor is cheaper than shop labor rates to replace the sensor.

Hopefully your mechanic checked for a no spark situation.

Like me, that vintage Ford system has limited intelligence and requires some old-school troubleshooting beyond reading codes.  EEC-IV code readers are fairly inexpensive and can help. 

There is a small black relay, IIRC just behind the battery, that must be maintained through the ignition switch that feeds power to the ignition coil, engine computer and other loads. It is the cheapest and easiest replacement item. Unplug/Plug.

There is an ignition switch assembly underneath the dash panel on the steering column, that commonly causes problems.  It provides power to the relay mentioned above.

Capacitors inside the Engine controller (sometimes called PCM, ECM, ECU, Module, Computer) are notorious for literally puking their guts. Easy to spot visually with the module in your hands with the cover removed. My 1994 still functioned with three bad capacitors, but temps needle was erratic, and the engine ran with occasional stumbles and rough idle, but didn't quit.  The code reader showed quite a number of bogus codes that disappeared with a functional PCM.

IIRC, a 1990 model also has the “computer” mounted to the left of the brake master cylinder, protruding into the van just above the accelerator pedal. It sometimes helps to clean connector/pins.

Another possibility is the coil wire that goes from the ignition coil to the distributor cap. Unplugs at either end.

Possibly this diagram below matches yours, which is sometimes questionable for Fords of that era.

Upper left: the fuse link is a piece of wire designed to blow like a fuse.  Below is the automatic shutdown relay, mentioned above.  I think of it as a run relay.

The line on the right side of that relay says “to ignition switch”.  That switch module is the one on the steering column mentioned above.

With the symptom happening, a technician with a voltmeter, fused jumper wire and knowing how, could hopefully rule out a lot of things. Those technicians are getting harder to find.

1990’s vehicles don’t seem very old to me.  :dodgy:

 

[Smitty716]

Is this fixed yet ? If not I have a suggestion. When it stalls look under the vehicle at the catalytic converters . See if one is glowing red. When they start to go bad what you are saying happens.

 

[CincyPlasmaTech]

"There is a sensor (PIP/crankshaft position) in the distributor that very often causes your symptoms.  Although replaceable, the difficulty doing so generally makes replacing the distributor more common.  I would think on your 1990 the replacement ignition module was mounted on the distributor rather than behind your battery?  That module receives pulses from the PIP sensor, also called the stator assembly by parts houses. An oscilloscope is required to genuinely diagnose a PIP sensor fault.  A replacement distributor is cheaper than shop labor rates to replace the sensor."

The above description is exceptionally specific and very helpful to me for finding sensor locations from a schematic. Thank you!

"Like me, that vintage Ford system has limited intelligence and requires some old-school troubleshooting beyond reading codes.  EEC-IV code readers are fairly inexpensive and can help. "

It's usually the person claiming the limited intelligence that actually has the most intelligence.

"1990’s vehicles don’t seem very old to me.  :dodgy:"

No! They are not old!!

 

[jasper]

It would be helpful to read a followup if the problem is resolved.

If the OP has two fuel tanks and an electrically operated fuel tank selector, they have been known to restrict/stop fuel flow.

Listening to the whine of fuel pumps when switching the key to the ON/RUN position before twisting to the crank/start position and the average whine time is helpful.

Thanks, CincyPlasmaTech.  My main online activity is for technical problems.  Finding a post about the ECU/computer capacitors led me to that diagnostic nightmare conclusion.

Trying to read the Morse Code of flashing light testing with multiple codes led me to getting an EEC-IV code reader.

 

[H0neybug]

I really want to update my post, but I keep getting an error.

 

[H0neybug]

@jasper

“If the OP has two fuel tanks and an electrically operated fuel tank selector, they have been known to restrict/stop fuel flow.”

this is exactly what the cause was! So for years the fuel selector valve didn’t work and we just ran one tank.

so here are the repairs they made before finally figuring this out:

first they replaced the sending unit along with the low pressure fuel pump and the high fuel pump and fuel filter. We could use both tanks, but she still died after any trip length.

 

[H0neybug]

Next we replaced the ignition module...no change

Took that off and replaced the ignition module that was combined with a distributor...still no fix

then he replaced the relays to the pumps...van still died after running so long

Then they added a filter to the fuel tank selector valve and she didn’t die, but the gas overflowed and she ran like crap when switching tanks.