Yeti 3000x + 200 watt solar on sale

[IGBT]

Having said that, yes, you can order stuff online but having to PAY just to be able to see prices on the website seems odd...and not at all 'user friendly' to the vast majority of members here.

I guess it is a bit odd but they must have some reason...maybe to give a sense of value to members like they are in some exclusive club lol?

I do know that Costco gets pretty rave reviews because of their overly generous return policies.   Some people take advantage of them to ridiculous extent, like buying a Christmas tree and returning it after Christmas for full refund, or buying a big screen TV for a superbowl then returning it for a full refund, or buying something, trashing it then returning it for a full refund and Costco rarely complains.


And then there is the $1.50 giant hotdog plus large soda lol....probably the single best deal in fast food out there.

If you did buy the Goal Zero Yeti 3000x and played around with it for a month and decided you didn't really like it, you could just sort of half arse pack it back up and drop it off at a Costco and get all your money back with no hassle.

Try that with something off alibaba LOL

 

[ldsreliance]

True, there are wires and connectors and fuses and such. But it still doesn't get you to $2700 from $2050.

At 70 pounds, no one is using the 3000x as a portable solution. So having it in a tight, compact form factor probably isn't a big deal. So I'm not sure about putting everything in a cooler. Just mount the inverter and charge controller and "shore" charger to a wall or in a cabinet and put the battery wherever it fits. Same as you would do with the 3000x.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I guess it is a bit odd but they must have some reason...maybe to give a sense of value to members like they are in some exclusive club lol?

Well it's a choice they make. And if it works for them, fine. I won't ever join, so they don't have to worry about me anyway.

Sportsmans Guide is a really good example of an online merchant with a discount for members, but non-members can easily see the prices...THIS is the way to do it...in my opinion.

Examples:

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/pro...gy/solar-panels-accessories?d=129&c=425&s=557

 

[IGBT]

True, there are wires and connectors and fuses and such.  But it still doesn't get you to $2700 from $2050.

At 70 pounds, no one is using the 3000x as a portable solution.  So having it in a tight, compact form factor probably isn't a big deal.  So I'm not sure about putting everything in a cooler.  Just mount the inverter and charge controller and "shore" charger to a wall or in a cabinet and put the battery wherever it fits.  Same as you would do with the 3000x.

Don't say no one because I personally have been using the 3000 as a portable solution for three years.  I move it from the work site to the van to go camping and to our sailboat to power a cooler for a weekend cruise.   It is the same weight as a single lead acid battery which tons of people move around when they go fishing or whatver.

 

[ldsreliance]

Don't say no one because I personally have been using the 3000 as a portable solution for three years.  I move it from the work site to the van to go camping and to our sailboat to power a cooler for a weekend cruise.   It is the same weight as a single lead acid battery which tons of people move around when they go fishing or whatver.

Sorry, I should say few people are willing and able to move something that heavy around regularly.

And NMC is a different beast than LFP or Lion but 500 cycles is still poor for NMC.

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a bash session on this device.  I just personally don't see why people fawn over GoalZero and Jackery and Bluetti.  They are good for one purpose.  But using it every day as your daily source of energy in a van or RV is probably not the best use of your money.  You will go through 5 of those in the same time it takes to wear out a more appropriate solution that costs less to begin with.

 

[IGBT]

I guess a lot of it depends on use but I am weirdly not seeing this low life that even Goal Zero admits to.

We have owned a YETI 1000 since 2016 (so it is five years old now) and have used it many hundred of times.  We don't always take it from 100% to 0% but we have taken it down to 0% at least 50 to 100 times.  Most of our use is in the range of 95% to 20%.

The 1000 still recharges to 98% and still powers a Keurig coffee maker (900 watts) for about 25 cups of coffee at 2 min per brew.  It might be finally nearing 80% capacity, maybe.  Still, five years of pretty constant use for something I bought at Costco for $799 and had to do zero effort to use?  Works for me.

The 3000 is three years old and has done over 250 charge discharge cycles from 100% to 20% and has little to no capacity loss.   I am actually hoping it wears out in another few years so I can upgrade to the 3000x but it doesn't look promising, it just keeps working.

I wonder if Goal Zero rates the 500 cycles for worst case, hard use, full discharge to cutoff in desert temperatures, just to cover their butt.

 

[wayne49]

Re: not publishing low prices.

There are some jurisdictions, for example the state of Wisconsin, where it is illegal to publish, or sell at, prices lower than the MSRP.

Displaying the lower prices only to "club members" may be a way around that barrier.

Verizon Wireless ran up against that barrier, when trying to price AppleCare at $99, instead of the MSRP of $99.99. The point of sale business was trying to prevent AppleCare from being automatically discounted, and had decided that gaming the system was the way to resolve their problem. Prices ending in .00 could not be discounted per the Business Requirements for the automated discounting system.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Re: not publishing low prices.

There are some jurisdictions, for example the state of Wisconsin, where it is illegal to publish, or sell at, prices lower than the MSRP.

Illegal?

This can't be correct. Otherwise no merchant could ever publish a sale price or ever sell anything on sale or at a lower than retail clearance price.

If this is a true law, can you provide a source for this? Never heard of it.

MSRP= Manufacturers SUGGESTED Retail Price. A suggestion is not a law.

 

[jacqueg]

It is possible that they are sandbagging but that is a bad marketing strategy lol.  Sounds like the lawyers run the show over there if that is the case!

The more likely case, and you won't get them to admit this, but they are very likely using Grade B cells.  They perform the same as Grade A but keep costs much lower and by the time they float outside of the BMS's ability to balance the whole pack, it is years and years down the road and the warranty is expired anyway.  Relatively few people will be draining these things to 20% SoC every day, anyway, so the number of complaints, warranty claims, and poor reviews will be minimal.  It is a shrewd, calculated business decision because no one can tell a Grade A cell from a Grade B cell apart (without a month or more of testing) and 95% of customers never know any better.

So this brings up an interesting question - do most van dwellers need a battery made with Grade A cells?

The battery that was recently stolen from me was made from Grade B cells. As I recall, the battery specs did not mention this straight out, but I know it was, because 1) the manufacturer warranted it for 5 years and 2) it was $600 for an 100 amp hour battery. I bought it from Discount Solar in Q, and they guaranteed it for a year.

As long as it is priced accordingly, I've got no issue with a battery made from Grade B cells. In the 8 months I had it, I never ran it all the way down even once. It performed as I needed it to.

If Discount Solar still carries them, I will buy another one when I get to Q.

 

[Frood]

I think it's more to do with the battery technology moreso than the grade of the cells. Li-Ion cells seem to
physically degrade faster (at full charge cycles that is) than LiFePO4 cells. I have read that only going up to
90/95% charging and not draining them to zero (Most people I saw only went to 20%) drastically prolongs
the battery life. The 500 cycles is based off of full->empty->full cycles I think.

So a 2000 Wh battery is actually only usable for 1400-1500 Wh of power following the above guidelines... For
marketing purposes which is better, fewer full-charge cycles or higher power capacity?

 

[wayne49]

I incorrectly identified the law in Wisconsin.

It is "The Unfair Sales Act".

MSRP is a nationally published price, "suggested" or not is immaterial.

$99.99 was Apple's published national price for Apple Care. Verizon's $99 price was below that published price. Verizon expended resources trying to figure out another way to prevent discounting, other than cutting $0.99 off the price which was a discount anyway.

https://datcp.wi.gov/Pages/Programs_Services/UnfairSalesAct.aspx

Below is verbatim from the above link.
<<<
Wis.Stats s. 100.30, The Unfair Sales Act and Wis. Adm. Code CH. ATCP 105, Sales Below Cost

Commonly referred to as the "Minimum Markup Law," the Unfair Sales Act prohibits selling items of merchandise below cost. The law states that "the practice of selling…below cost to attract patronage is a form of deceptive advertising and an unfair method of competition in commerce…" Specifically, the law defines cost as:

For all merchandise except alcoholic beverages, tobacco products, and motor vehicle fuel, cost to either wholesalers or retailers is defined as invoice cost or replacement cost, whichever is lower, less all trade discounts, plus any excise taxes and any cost incurred for transportation and any other charges not otherwise included in the invoice cost or replacement cost of the merchandise.

For alcohol and tobacco products the definition of cost also includes a 3% cost of doing business markup for wholesalers and a 6% cost of doing business markup for retailers. Cost for wholesalers who operate retail outlets or retailers who purchase directly from the manufacturer includes a 9.18% markup (3% plus 6% compounded).

For motor vehicle fuel, the definition of "cost" relies on either the "average posted terminal price" or invoice cost (whichever is greater) plus a cost of doing business markup. Use our Motor Vehicle Fuel Cost Calculator.

Penalties for violating the Unfair Sales Act may include a civil forfeiture of $50 to $500 for the first violation and $200 to $2500 for each subsequent violation. Sellers of motor vehicle fuel and/or tobacco products may file a private cause of action to seek damages if they are injured by a competitor's price.

Exceptions to the law are made to allow for matching a competitor's price, clearance and final liquidation sales, sales of damaged merchandise and perishables, contracted governmental institution sales and for merchandise sold to charitable or relief agencies.

The Unfair Sales Act applies only to the sale of goods; services are not covered.
>>>

 

[wayne49]

Another law, this one in Minnesota, a dairy state, required that any product using the word "cream" on the label must actually contain a certain amount of dairy cream. The Popsicle brand "Creamsicle" treat sold almost everywhere else, had to be labelled "Dreamsicle" in Minnesota.

Another Minnesota law required that oleomargarine had to be sold in white form, not yellow like real butter. In Minnesota oleomargarine was sold with a packet of yellow food dye for those who required a yellowish topping on their toast.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Applecare is a service...not a product you can hold in your hand. 

At any rate, MSRP is never the same as 'cost'. They are not the same thing.

So vendors and retailers are free to sell way below MSRP if they so choose....as I said. 

Selling below cost is often referred to as 'loss-leaders'....the seller is taking a loss, an actual LOSS on the advertised items, just to get you into the store to 'hopefully' buy other stuff where there IS a profit to be made. 

Costco can publish low prices if they choose. But if they are proven to be suffering a 'loss' they might have issues if taken to court by some other competing retailer....in Wisconsin anyway.

But this leads me to mention Starlink...Elon Musk has repeatedly said that the Starlink hardware is being sold for $500 which is WAY below cost just to get it out there, and users will then be paying $99 a month...but in theory anyone could buy the dish and router at way below 'cost' and cancel service after a month. 

From ARS Technica:

"We are losing money on that terminal right now. That terminal costs us more than $1,000," Musk said yesterday during a Mobile World Congress Q&A session (see a YouTube video posted by CNET). "We obviously are subsidizing the cost of the terminal. We are working on next-generation terminals that provide the same level of capability, roughly the same level of capability, but cost a lot less."

So I guess Wisconsin is gonna have to start fining ol Elon..."$50 to $500 for the first violation and $200 to $2500 for each subsequent violation" ...cuz I'm sure SOMEONE in that state has Starlink by now.

Selling below 'cost' is one thing...and sometimes it does come across as 'anti-competitive'...but selling below MSRP is very common and not illegal anywhere...as far as I know.

 

[IGBT]

But didn't for years cell phone companies sell their phones below cost in order to get you to sign up for a contract?   I remember when phones were something like 1 cent with a 2 year contract.  How is that legal?

 

[frater secessus]

The main problem is the batteries in the GoalZero and most portable power station are garbage. They are only good for 500 cycles @ 80% DoD. You can see so yourself in the tech specs... Any halfway decent grade A lithium cell should last 2,000+ cycles at 80% DoD.

Two different lithium chemistries with different properties and price points.

Horses for courses. A Honda isn't "garbage" because it doesn't go 200mph, and Lamborghini isn't "garbage" because it doesn't get 40mpg.