Women Only: Safety on the road - sexual assault

[VanDwellerMod]

The forum staff (both men and women) wanted to let our members (both men and women) know our stand on the sexual assault being discussed in the Women's Only Forum here --:https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Women-Only-Safety-on-the-road-sexual-assault?pid=345926#pid345926

Please forgive the lack of involvement of the mods and admins, up until now. We've been discussing the issue. Here's what we think.

For the record, we are in the process of getting confirmation with regard to who the person is that harrassed/assaulted the women at Jamie's build out party. When his identity is confirmed he will be told he is not welcome at the RTR.

BLM land is public. It isn't possible to enforce who is allowed to camp in our camp. If he chooses to show up there isn't much that can be done, beyond telling him to leave. Shunning has worked for thousands of years. That seems to be our only option.

 

[Charlotte's Web]

"...Bob I'm sure won't allow these shenanigans."

The plain fact of the matter is that Bob cannot be held responsible for what goes on at the RTR.  It would be
unfair & unrealistic to expect that.  The RTR has grown & like other things of the sort, can continue to be a
a wonderful resource & gathering of "the tribes"---has evolved & suffered the predictable, but inevitable
consequences. 

Is RTR still worth attending?  For many many people the answer will be yes!  I myself, have never attended
the RTR.  I was, however, an early attendee of Burning Man.  I last participated in 1999.  Twenty eight
thousand attended that year, the last Burning Man without a police presence. 

It is crucial that all women planning to attend RTR realize that there are likely to be many attendees who
are completely unknown to you, people who have never posted on this forum.  Enjoy yourselves, make new
friends, learn more of what you need to learn---but use your heads!  Trust your intuition & *never* ignore
a red flag.  Above all. watch your own alcohol consumption. 

I regret not being able to attend RTR this year, but I am up to my ears downsizing/selling/relocating...

We women have a lot to think/rethink about right now. :-/  Stick together. 

:heart: Charlotte

 

[Ms Daisy]

Charlotte, Bob has already stated that RTR is not a "party atmosphere" event.  If he plans the event and a "known individual" is known to prey on women, you think something wouldn't be done about that (telling the individual they aren't welcome)??   This type of incident happened at a dispersed camping event in Northern AZ last summer and a few real men in our group told the perp that he was to leave or the rangers would be called.  He left.  That is as it should be.

 

[Ms Daisy]

The world will never be a safe place for women until all the "good men" demand it!  It is time for men to step outside the "thin blue line" & police their own.   A good man's silence can be deadly for women.  Yes, Jamie was wrong not to toss the offender out on his ear---but so was every other man in the group.  This has got to change.  Now.

Charlotte

You're joking right?!  By what you posted to my comment that Bob wouldn't put up with such shenanigans and your reply was "he can't be responsible..."

The point is ... we women rely on the "real men" in the group to speak up" and remove any perps and THAT is to what I was referring.

FYI ... Crystal "stuck together" with 2 other woman ... and they were ALL targeted by this one individual. Sounds like you're victim blaming ... none of the gals were drinking and they were together in their "homes" sleeping, when the perp descended upon them!!

The best thing for the event planner to do is to inform any attendees to behave themselves ... and that is what Bob has already stated in his pre RTR 2018 youtube video.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

The plain fact of the matter is that Bob cannot be held responsible for what goes on at the RTR.  It would be
unfair & unrealistic to expect that.  The RTR has grown & like other things of the sort, can continue to be a
a wonderful resource & gathering of "the tribes"---has evolved & suffered the predictable, but inevitable
consequences.

You need to watch this video from Bob -- starts at 11:29. 

He is legally responsible for the RTR with the gathering on public land. The Rangers have the authority, Bob is responsible.

 

[VanKitten]

I think we all need to know the name of this criminal.

How can I protect myself if I do not know the perp I for sure need to for sure avoid.

 

[Cammalu]

The video was taken down here but you can go to Jamie's last video before the build and see Jake as he's introduced in the video.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wallflower]

 The video was taken down here but you can go to Jamie's last video before the build and see Jake as he's introduced in the video.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I watched the video's... I am disgusted!... I had the same thing happen years ago in my sticks and bricks home. I don't think a lot of people who haven't had this happen to them would ever understand exactly how it changes you....It has been 30 years..since this happened I've never felt safe at night especially, I was carefree and it all changed after waking up to a man grasping my upper thigh..he ran when I started screaming!...I was lucky..but I was told by an veteran police officer that in his 18 years on the force that men who do these things, attempted rape often come back if they don't succeed... I slept with a pistol ..ready to kill after that..before I would never touch or own a weapon....I am aware all the time of my surroundings, I never dismiss my intuition!... The thing that brought me back to that night was Crystal having to be a victim and then suffer being a victim again by persons taunting and minimizing what happened, shame on them!!!..being drunk doesn't change people, it does loosen inhabitation...  any man or woman who accepts this as acceptable behavior is damaging the cause....putting Women in danger. Yes ,they said she should of closed and locked her door...but what about those women living in tents?...no one should have to live in fear, afraid...but if we start by saying a big "NEVER" accept this behavior, call police and report..no tolerance for any one drunk or sober NO  excuses!.......

 

[VanDwellerMod]

Please do not repeat hearsay regarding the name of the perpetrator.  Our forum staff will get firsthand accounts prior to the RTR.  

The person who harassed and assaulted the women at Jamie's van build will and should be labeled.  We want to make sure that such a label is accurately placed.  It would be a grievous mistake if some man was misidentified and wrongly labeled.

A message from the forum staff regarding our stance on the incident is at this link -- 
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Message-from-forum-staff-regarding-sexual-assault

 

[cyndi]

I’m at the library with WiFi trying to make myself watch these videos of people talking to themselves.
I.cant.do.it.

 

[Charlotte's Web]

It saddens me that my post of last night has been misunderstood by even
one of you.  
My remarks were not meant to address the *legalities* of responsibility.
Rather, I hoped to stress the fact that thousands of people will attend,
& there will be many campers in the vicinity with no connection whatsoever
to the RTR.

Chrstal Vanner's incident proves that, even when a participant *is* known
to the group that simply being "known" is no protection against assault.
How could any woman who has read my posts in this thread imagine, even for
a moment, that I would "blame the victum"?  

The advice I offered for staying safe, which included the reminder to watch
one's own alcohol consumption, was sensible advice & had nothing to do with
Crystal Vanner.  That should have been obvious.  There is no guarantee of
safety anywhere, & Bob's *rules of behavior* for the RTR can only go so far.
Which was the point I was trying to make.  

Don't let *divide & conquer* enter our women's forum. That is *precisely*
what I meant when I said "stick together."  

Charlotte

 

[JustACarSoFar]

Don't let *divide & conquer* enter our women's forum. That is *precisely*
what I meant when I said "stick together."  

:heart:

 

[cyndi]

Maybe my reading comprehension skills are lacking. I don’t see anyone disagreeing with anyone, in this thread.

 

[mayble]

I think we all need to know the name of this criminal.

How can I protect myself if I do not know the perp I for sure need to for sure avoid.

the same way you protect yourself from all the others who haven't been outed on this forum
bad people are everywhere and they look just like the good people, who are also everywhere.  knowing the name and likeness of one out of a hundred thousand dangerous people won't make you safe - that's still on you.

 

[Linda Cripple-Creek]

"A message from the forum staff regarding our stance on the incident is at this link -- http://www.cheaprvliving.com/f...staff-regarding-sexual-assault"

This link doesn't work for me on my cell, neither clickable nor cut & paste. Can someone check please?

Sent from my LG-M327 using Tapatalk

 

[Almost There]

Try this one:
https://vanlivingforum.com/Thread-Message-from-forum-staff-regarding-sexual-assault

 

[Stargazer]

As another has said, what about all of the others you don't know?  In a group gathering this large, there WILL be others (male and female) whose behavior is just Bad. No one person in charge can prevent bad things from happening.  It is, most sadly, up to each individual to protect her/himself, a sorry state of affairs but true.  The perp can be made to leave, the group can string him/her up all over the Internet or from the highest tree.  It doesn't matter because the pain caused to the victim is a done deal and is often a life changing event.  There is no closure or getting over it; there is only learning to deal with it.

We all know how to limit our exposure, to keep our radars fine tuned.  Yet sometimes those actions fail.  I worry about those who attend these types of gathering because chances are good that something will happen and someone will be hurt.  That someone may be you.  Ask yourself, is it worth it?

 

[ValerieP]

That action is definitely why I live with an English Shepherd, who will say hello to who I tell him to, but if my attention is elsewhere or I'm asleep- no one is coming into my space without his ire.

 

[S.IX:Phoebe]

Wow this thread has really grown, that is awesome!

Danger can be anywhere on the open road. Not once have we slept at a truck stop where we felt completely at-ease. I sleep with a knife under my pillow and Jamie always has the car keys in her shirt pocket. Thankfully I didn't need to use the knife on someone (and I hope that will never need to happen in the future) but you've got to be aware of your surroundings.

 

[slynne]

How terrible. Seeing how the victim was harassed afterwards is pretty disturbing to me. I had to watch a woman go through it when I was in college but after she was raped and dared to report it, she was harassed so badly for ruining her rapist's life that she ended up changing schools. . I didnt know her or her story but when I pointed out that the rapist was found guilty in a court of law so there had to be *something* to the story, I was shunned a little and not invited to certain parties. I decided that being shunned by men who were so unsure of what is appropriate behavior that they were worried I might accuse them of rape unfairly, that it was probably for the best. 

I am thinking of trying to figure out a security camera set up so if this were to ever happen to me, I would have a chance of being believed.