Why would you NOT insulate your van?

[DebraOak]

HI all.

Introduced to van dwelling this past month, I have voraciously been reading everything I can get my hands on, especially now focusing on the practical aspects of getting a van ready to live in full-time. I know as well as I can know anything that whatever Bob Wells publishes is well-researched and tried and tested. He says to insulate, but believe it or not, I read an author who adamantly says do NOT insulate citing generalities about the insulation itself acting like the bare walls and keeping nothing warmer or cooler. This is a bunch of crap, I intuit, but I don't know the engineering or scientific reasoning behind his statement. Could someone tell me why insulation is better than not insulating for colder or warmer weather?

Related and due to seasonal allergies, I'm strongly leaning towards covering the insulation on the walls with aluminum and corrugated metal rather than wood (I saw WeeRolls information and it sounded great to me, not sure how it will work though). Does insulation work well against metal/alum walls and ceiling too?

Am planning to buy the lowest mileage low-top Chevy cargo van V6 that I can afford. Hopefully this fall or winter and start working on it while paying off a credit card and working full-time.

Huge thanks for any info and help. Have a great day in paradise (wherever that is for the moment for you!).

 

[lenny flank]

I have no insulation at all. Since I move with the weather, I don't need it.

Also, insulation by itself doesn't do very much: even if it works perfectly (and it never does), the BEST it can do is keep the inside temp equal to the outside temp. It will not warm you in the winter unless you have a heater, and it will not cool you in the summer unless you have an AC.

For most vandwellers, it's simply not necessary.

 

[highdesertranger]

what Lenny said. insulation works if you have a way to heat/cool your van. most forgo the AC part and move with the weather. it is nice to be able to handle a little cold weather. in the desert you can have wild temperature swings between night and day, 50° is not unheard of and 30/40° is common. so having a well insulated van with a heat source makes for a comfy van. now with the metal sheeting inside any temp below 50° it's going to seem cold inside, the walls are going to feel cold and you are not going to want to touch them. below 40° forget it. highdesertranger

 

[lenny flank]

For most people, a good winter mummy sleeping bag will do the job just as effectively as a heater (or two bags to layer together if it's really cold). I'm good down to about zero, though I tend to move elsewhere if it gets into the 30s at night.

I've always thought that the only people who really NEED a heater are those stuck in a place where the winter gets life-threateningly cold--and then they need a vented heater, and insulation will help them.

EDIT: Keeping cool in the summer heat is a MUCH harder problem than keeping warm in winter. The only way to actually cool the air inside is with an AC, and that requires a LOT of energy. Not easy or practical for most people.

 

[RVTravel]

A mummy bag is for sleeping. What about when the temps drop into the 40s before sundown and you have to sit around for a few hours...how will you stay warm then? Clothing I guess, but most are not gonna want to lounge around in a sleeping bag.

 

[lenny flank]

Well, I'm not sure why wearing warm clothing in the van would be any different than wearing warm clothing outside the van......

But of course a heater will keep one warm inside the van if one really wants it.

Me, I don't spend much time in the van anyway, except to sleep at night. I spend all my days out and about, going places and seeing things. I live FROM the van, not IN it.

 

[John61CT]

A mummy bag is for sleeping. What about when the temps drop into the 40s before sundown and you have to sit around for a few hours...how will you stay warm then? Clothing I guess, but most are not gonna want to lounge around in a sleeping bag.

Turn on your radiant heater? Or,

Put a big pot of soup on your cooker set low, and crack open a window for ventilation?

 

[John61CT]

Of course if you plan on staying put in extreme heat & cold, and spend the time & money to install proper regulated climate control systems used for many weeks or months of the year,

then and only then would you be stupid not to insulate.

Between that case and the "move with the 60's" crowd is a grey area, more room variations based on budget, abilities and personal preference.

 

[jonyjoe303]

put some insulation, then add more insulation, and then to make sure put another layer of insulation. I got 3 layers of insulation on my van and still adding more every time.

It works best when you isolate your van. In mine I made a sliding door that isolates the front of van from the back. All the heat/cold comes from the big windshield. 

In the back of the van insulate all your windows, at least 2 inches of foam on windows. Anywhere that outside heat/cold air can come in, insulate it. Try and make your van as airtight as possible. If the back of your van is pitchblack in the daytime you done a good job, light equals heat.

In the winter I was able to go without a heater, didnt even sleep inside a sleeping bag. Thats what covering all the holes where air can come in does. In the summer the back of my van hasn't got over 90 degrees yet.  All I have is a small swampcooler running all day it keeps the back of my van cool. I'm always parked in the sun. So far the weekend I've gone through 4 liters of water and the swampcooler only uses 2 amps of power, which is insignificant for my 240 watt solar panel. 

The swampcooler only works because the back of the van is heavily insulated. Without the insulation it would be over 100 degrees in the back.

Picture of the temperatures of the front uninsulated section and rear insulated section. This is about 2.30 pm in sunny california. Thats over 40 degree difference.......Thats all the proof I need insulation works. I still have hotspots, thats why I'm always adding more foam insulation.


I recently bought a new toy. A cordless hot glue gun(30 dollars). This make quick work of installing the foam insulation. No harmful chemicals or fumes, drys instantlly. And makes a permanent job. In 5 years never had any of the foam insulation I hotglued fall off. Also hotglue stick to everything metal/glass/plactic/wood/cardboard and on top of other insulation. Many times people might think is major work installing insulation, but with hotglue and a boxcutter to cut the foam, it goes quick.


The foam insulation I use is rtech brand found in home depot 4x8 foot sheet costs about 9 dollars. Its easy to cut with a boxcutter. Its best to cut in small sections so you can lay the hotglue on there quickly and apply it before it starts to dry. The cuts don't have to be perfect, I just eyeball it and cover all the bare spots. Like a jigsaw puzzle.

 

[DannyB1954]

Some feel that in hot climates insulation can actually make the van hotter when night falls. The reason being that insulation only slows the movement of heat. It also adds mass that stores that heat. So say the daytime temp was 100 with the sun beating against the van. All the insulation will heat up during the day.

Now the sun goes down and in the high desert the temps drop quick. Say the temp is now a comfortable 70 degrees, but your insulation is still at 85 degrees. That heat trapped in the insulation will want to move in both directions, towards the outside of the vehicle, and towards the inside of the vehicle. Heat is energy and always flows from the warmer to the cooler. If the inside of the van is cooler than the insulation because you have the windows open, the heat will flow to the inside as well. So someone in an uninsulated van is at 70 degrees, (outside air temp), but the person in an insulated van is at 80 degrees, (because heat is flowing from the warm insulation to the inside).

Now here is more confusion. During the night the temp drops to 65 degrees. This will actually feel quite cold if you are accustomed to 100 degrees during the day. The person in the uninsulated van will be at 65 degrees looking for more blankets and the person in the insulated van is still at 70 degrees.
My solution to this situation is to have a lot of insulation and a vent van that blows both in or out that also has a thermostat. If it is hot during the day when I head for bed I have the vent fan blow cool air on top of me and if it takes two hours for the rest of the van to cool down that is OK with me. If the temp drops to where I have the thermostat set, the fan shuts off and I stay comfortable for the rest of the night.
When it is cold outside, hands down the more insulation the better. It will take a smaller heater to keep you comfortable.

 

[John61CT]

The other side of the coin is high CFM well controlled ventilation.

Equalize in and out temps in under 5 minutes.

Doing without is only for follow the 60's crowd IMO

 

[Dingfelder]

Bob insulates his walls and I think his ceiling, but not his floor. But then he says he has to wear special shoes to keep his feet warm. I guess everybody does things their own way.

 

[John61CT]

Insulating the floor well is only important when using aircon, in fact should be thicker than the walls or ceiling.

But many do so under the outside, vertical space inside can be precious.

 

[mayble]

My insulation varies from 3/4" ( outer wall panels) down to 1/8" (over the ribs in the ceiling. 99% of it is flexible, closed cell foam simply glued to the walls and covered with fabric. Cheap, easy, lightweight and space saving (no wood framing).
Lowest nights so far right around 30 and I was cozy enough in bed. Turning on the stove for five minutes in the morning warms the van right up. Then the sun takes over

 

[John61CT]

Yes for mild temps no need to give up a lot of space.

Camping in ski area parking lots burning lots of fuel for heat day and night, greater thicknesses pays off.

 

[vanlifeadventures21]

It makes sense to insulate if you're traveling in cold weather or at high altitudes.

I don't think insulation is necessary if you're staying in hot climates the majority of the time. All of that insulation is just going to hold the hot air in and make the vehicle more difficult to cool down. With hot weather, you want ventilation.

It's easier to warm up in the cold than cool down in the heat. Pretty much anything you do in your van (cooking, cleaning, breathing) is going to raise the inside temp.

Many people live comfortably without insulation but you have to 'follow the weather' and make sure you're not stuck in an area with freezing temperatures.

 

[Van-Tramp]

Yep, no reason to insulate unless you plan to camp in colder weather (or warmer weather and you have an AC). If you move along with the 70-degree weather, insulation will do nothing to improve your life. I camped in well below freezing temps for years without insulation. It is easily manageable by using the proper clothing and sleeping bag. Heat is a whole different story. I did insulate with 1.5" foam board in my last build and it did make a nice difference in the 20-degree snowy camping days I did earlier this year.

Also, keep in mind, no matter how well you insulate the walls/floor/roof of your van it will do you no good if you leave the windows and windshield open to the elements. You must insulate (or at least cover) those areas or you lose all your heat/cold faster than you can gain it from your heater/AC. And please think beyond Reflectix as it has an R-value of only 1. A nice blanket has a much higher R-value and will insulate much better. Reflectix is nice to reflect the direct sun rays, however you still want something as a backing to act as an actual insulator.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Insulate, insulate insulate as thick as you can afford without taking up too much space. You won’t have to sit in your van for very long in the sun to know how hot it will get you can just put up a small piece of foam board to see the difference between how much heat radiates off the steel compared to the foam insulation. In the cold you will get condensation on the walls if you don’t insulate and not retain heat.
I have insulation, under my metal floor, above it, in the bulkhead, on the walls and recently added a second layer on the ceiling and the difference was immediate. Where I used to get condensation in a couple of my high cupboards stays dry as a bone now. Insulate, insulate insulate, not only for warmth but also for sound, while driving and while sleeping/living both for you and so those outside won’t hear you inside.

 

[Weight]

I did not finishing insulation as I had to leave in one big hurry. I got away!

 

[jacqueg]

In the cold you will get condensation on the walls if you don’t insulate and not retain heat.

I spent a snowy winter living in an insulated Airstream, which had about 3/4" of some kind of foam insulation, covered with what I think is some kind of vinyl.

It has both an Atwood furnace and an Olympian wave heater. If I wanted heat at night, I'd usually use the Wave, since it is close to the front bed where I slept. Using either one at night to maintain a minimum temperature, I'd wake up in the morning with condensation on the walls and windows.

My conclusion is that there may be good reasons to insulate your van, but preventing condensation does not appear to be one of them. In fact, I worry that improperly applied diy insulation could result in condensation between the insulation and the van walls. I'd rather sleep chilly at night than run that risk.

Comments welcome, as I'm trying to decide whether or not to insulate my van.