Which is safer and more convenient?

[user 423]

Over the past couple months there were a lot of generators going around here in the LTVA. The gas Honda units had the least noise and the happiest owners. The reliability of this brand and the light weight is hard to beat. 

It would be interesting to see what the end result of this thread will be. 

The Ryobi compares favorably for noise at 61db vs. 59db for the 1000w Honda. The output is a little less though. I've always heard that LP-fueled engines will last longer and they don't have carb gum up problems, so I'm interested in that aspect also.

 

[user 37446]

Brings back memories of living in northern BC. We had a big outdoor propane tank that had to be wrapped in heat tape and insulation to keep it from freezing up in the winter.

Also brings back memories of being out of work in the Similkameen (BC) in the winter of 1996 (Dec) and driving to Edmonton to try and find something that paid. As I got into Alberta the wind was a whippin', it was -30 C and the wind chill froze my propane tanks. Problem was, my truck was propane powered...

That sucked.

When it thawed the next day I drove back to BC swearing never to leave.

 

[user 423]

Propane is a lot safer than gasoline. It is more convenient than handling gasoline.

Yeah I guess carrying a 20lb. LP tank on a cargo carrier would be safer than carrying a gas can + the gen. with gas in the tank.

When disconnected, you can safely carry the propane gen. in the van.

 

[seak]

Number 5.  I hope to never see temperatures so cold that propane doesn't work.  If it is that cold outside you need to store the propane tank inside.  If it is -44 degrees inside you have a problem.

Propane can get balky at air temperatures significantly warmer than -44 F. As propane vapor is consumed from the top of the tank, liquid at the bottom of the tank evaporates due to the pressure drop within the vessel. The phase change from liquid to vapor absorbs heat, chilling the liquid in the tank. The greater the consumption rate, the greater the rate of evaporation and the colder the tank gets.

I saw this first hand working one winter in the early '80s in western Wyoming. We used a weed burner to dry off welds on an oilfield pipeline before doping the welds. One morning was very cold, perhaps single digits and after a little use the weed burner barely operated. We turned the weed burner onto the tank to warm it enough to continue working. If that doesn't sound safe, I agree!

The point being that rate of consumption affects the usability of propane in cold weather. I don't imagine that a small generator would consume propane at the rate of a weed burner. But, it might be a concern for those operating a larger genset or a propane furnace or both at the same time.

 

[jimindenver]

We should keep it relative. Where and when is the OP going to use the generator? Sometimes we get off into the OMG this COULD happen that we become out of touch with reality. In any event a dual fuel generator would remove the threat of frozen propane tanks.

I have been in temperatures down to 19 F more than once with the furnace going constantly, the water heater and even the stove all at once, the tanks never froze up. I have had one get real low and act like it was empty when it was cold but the full one next to it was just fine. The low tank did produce pressure once it warmed up but not for long, it was nearly empty.

 

[user 423]

We should keep it relative. Where and when is the OP going to use the generator?

I'll be doing some boondocking at national parks in good weather, so no problems from freeze ups.

In the winter I plan to stay mostly at state parks and will usually stay away from the developed campgrounds unless it's real cold. Then I will pay for electric and use a heater. In NM that is only $4/day if you have an annual permit.

I've decided to go with propane and ordered the Ryobi. It will be a few months before I will use it much though.

 

[seak]

We should keep it relative. Where and when is the OP going to use the generator? Sometimes we get off into the OMG this COULD happen that we become out of touch with reality. In any event a dual fuel generator would remove the threat of frozen propane tanks.

Sure, but when the discussion veers towards the boiling point of propane as the lower bound of practical usage, it might be worth understanding a bit more about the physics involved. The OP will hardly be the only one to read this thread. As for OMG, well I hope I exercised a bit more restraint that. 

 

[Mrcap]

I used a propane generator last year and it was awesome. No carb residue from ethanol and no messing with gasoline. Always started on the second pull. I always left the hose attached and refilled the 5 gal tanks I alternated. My new rig has a built in generator connected to the gas tank but for a carry along the propane was clean and simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JD GUMBEE]

Propane is a lot safer than gasoline. It is more convenient than handling gasoline.

If...there is no leak.
In a genset scenario, where you are often connecting, disconnecting, this simply is not true.

You can see gasoline if it is leaking.
Propane can have a slow leak and in a little breeze, you can totally miss it till it is dead calm, late at night...and it gathers, waiting to go boom in certain situations.

Convenience is a matter of opinion. On any genset, you can get an adapter that will let it draw off a 5 gallon can directly, providing a load of run time without ever touching gasoline.
You can also have a fitting installed so your genset will draw right off the vehicle tank.

The kind of gasoline can you buy also has a lot to do with the hassle/lack of hassle transferring it.

 

[RepublicOfTXPatriot]

It's possible to get a universal 12 volt fuel pump and route your suction hose from tank/ can when you need to use it. There is more to it than what I have said here. But hopefully you get the idea. I have one under my truck with extra hose coiled up under it for each side. 12 volt switch under dash. But mine is set up right now to suck gas out of cans or such into my truck.

 

[Weight]

I will defend my statement that gasoline is more dangerous to handle than propane. Op was not talking about a built-in generator.

 

[ratfink56]

I'd say propane because I cook with propane so am already carrying it. Had I seen that propane generator for $299 I'd have jumped. But I bought a gas unit. I also bought a 10l nato style gas tank. Almost impossible to spill gas from those. I will run a vent hose from the vent on the can to the outside and keep the can in my back compartment which will be accessible only from the outside.

 

[WalkaboutTed]

We've had plenty of cloudy and some rainy days here in Southern Arizona the last couple of weeks. It's only with me messing with the charge controller settings that I've been able to bring back my batteries to 100% most days. But to do that, I have to be here. I pamper my batteries and want them to last for more than a couple of years. I originally thought I'd be able to get by with my setup (660w, 400ah) 100% of the time. But after watching the weather with less than optimum sun for an extended period, I realize that I wouldn't be able to park my ttrailer in the shade for 2+ weeks at a time. I boondock and it's difficult for me to hook up and move the trailer, so once I'm parked, I don't move the trailer until I leave that spot.

Coincidentally, this thread appeared the day after I placed my order at Home Despot for the Ryobi propane generator. I'm only planning to use it to bring my batteries back to a happy place with an IOTA (DLS- 30/IQ4) battery charger. I would have liked a bigger generator, but I physically can't manage it. And I didn't want to shlep around gasoline cans (besides, I hate the smell of gasoline). I already am using propane on the trailer for fridge, cooking, heating and occasionally, the hot water heater, so it's silly not to use it with a generator, if that's possible.

Today Hubby picks up the generator from the store. Once I put it through its paces, I'll report back here.
Ted

 

[JD GUMBEE]

I will defend my statement that gasoline is more dangerous to handle than propane. Op was not talking about a built-in generator.

Nothing to 'defend.' You have the right to your opinion.
I was just trying to point out a few counterpoints.

I did not mean a built-in either.
I have seen several Honda 2000's set up with the feed through the modified cap as I described.
Once you set it up on your rig, you never touch gasoline again.

 

[user 423]

They both can be dangerous of course and what I mainly was thinking of was concerns about being rear-ended while carrying containers on a cargo carrier. That's something that I've done with gas cans for years while driving a van. I do believe in that same scenario a LP tank would be safer.

Now, it's kind of a moot point though because I'll soon be converting a cargo trailer and plan to carry the tank(s) on the tongue of the trailer and that problem will be mostly gone. And the multiple use options with LP will be nice to have.

I will be in the experimental stage with solar and batteries and don't know yet how much I'll need but probably will try to keep battery (and total) weight down, so a small gen. like the Ryobi seemed like a good choice.

Walkabout: I too look forward to testing it out and reporting back here to the forum. After all, that's where I will get 90% of my info on solar and batteries.

 

[user 423]

I have seen several Honda 2000's set up with the feed through the modified cap as I described.
Once you set it up on your rig, you never touch gasoline again.

Isn't that how gas tanks on outboards work? Or do they have fuel pumps?

 

[John61CT]

Rated for 700W continuous output, should feed that 30A charger comfortably.

Start your testing without any Economode, after your bank's been charging say 15-20 minutes

Then switch over to Economode, if that is an option.

In later tests, if the bank isn't too depleted, say 10-15%, you could just use Economode from the beginning.

Ideally you are measuring the charger output voltage and amps actually accepted by the bank

Once voltage is up at the 14.x setpoint, then current starts dropping very low, it is a waste to keep burning fuel for "the long tail", unless you also have other useful reasons to keep the genny going.

But at least a few times per week, make sure to use solar to keep charging the bank until trailing amps drop to .005C, or .5A per 100. This should usually take 4-5 hours after you shut the genny down (assuming enough solar watts and good sunshine, longer if not), so that first genny stage should ideally be complete in the AM, before solar input gets started.

If you are chronically unable to get to 100% Full, as per mfg endAmps spec, very regularly, then a lead bank won't last nearly as long, just as harmful as drawing down below 50%.

Especially for AGMs.

 

[RVTravel]

A Honda 2000 set up for propane costs what $1500?