When it's time to stop.

[Morgana]

So, to go back to the original purpose of this thread -- if the idea = to prepare for someday HAVING to get off the road, would it make sense to check out this Escapees Care Center, and if it seems like a prospect, then maybe volunteering there occasionally or otherwise establishing some ties?

If it's about preparing for someday WANTING to get off the road, it's a different set of considerations, of course.

 

[rruff]

An Arizona company named Green Rino is using thick foam blocks coated with an epoxy stucco coating to make a super insulated space for less than conventional frame building.

They say the price is similar to wood frame. Not sure about the details, but they use thick slabs of EPS foam with some framing to build the space, and then coat it. https://www.graltbuildingsystems.com/faqs.html

I discovered these about 10 years ago and it looks like they are still in business. https://tridipanel.com/custom-concrete-homes/
The panels are foam ~4" thick with thick wire mesh on each side. You build the space using these panels and then spray shotcrete on each side... ~1-2". This gives very good insulation along with themal mass, and is inexpensive.

Generally the cost of the shell is a small fraction of the total for a house. Significant savings usually comes from doing the work yourself. That ship has sailed for me...

 

[RonDean]

Brings memories.

Mother Earth News (yup) > bought property in Minnesota but "stuff" happened and it didn't work out.
Self taught HTML (yup) > made web sites on the side. Didn't keep up with newer apps (we called them programs back then.)

Van life as Plan B. (yup) > but now realizing I might actually live longer than my physical ability to keep driving. Then what?

 

[rruff]

I might actually live longer than my physical ability to keep driving. Then what?

Driving is easier than walking... many can attest to that.

My fantasy ending is to find a very nice spot in the wilderness somewhere, dig a hole, lay down in it, and then.....

My brother-in-law decided last fall that he didn't want to go through the ordeal of cancer treatment, which would probably fail anyway, and he didn't want to put my sister through it either. He told a friend what he was going to do, drove to a quiet spot, and used a gun. I have another buddy who is dying of cancer. He said he'd like to go out with a heroin OD. That sounded better to me.

 

[RonDean]

Driving is easier than walking... many can attest to that.

My fantasy ending is to find a very nice spot in the wilderness somewhere, dig a hole, lay down in it, and then.....

My brother-in-law decided last fall that he didn't want to go through the ordeal of cancer treatment, which would probably fail anyway, and he didn't want to put my sister through it either. He told a friend what he was going to do, drove to a quiet spot, and used a gun. I have another buddy who is dying of cancer. He said he'd like to go out with a heroin OD. That sounded better to me.

I will never fault someone for deciding when their time has come. I've given it a bit of thought myself. There are now 11 states that have made it legal to make this a personal medical decision. ( https://www.compassionandchoices.or...ries-where-medical-aid-in-dying-is-authorized ) I am glad my daughter lives in one. It is also one reason I use her mailing address and tend to visit often.

But, I have seen people that refuse to give up their keys. My father-in-law used to scare me - big time. Finally, many of us refused to ride in his vehicle. Luckily he finally listened to the people around him - before he killed himself OR someone else. Most of us are older, with slower reaction times, and drive vehicles with a much longer stopping distance. I think it behooves us to make sure we know when to quit. If not for ourselves, then for the other people we might put at risk.

 

[jacqueg]

Driving is easier than walking... many can attest to that.

My fantasy ending is to find a very nice spot in the wilderness somewhere, dig a hole, lay down in it, and then.....

My brother-in-law decided last fall that he didn't want to go through the ordeal of cancer treatment, which would probably fail anyway, and he didn't want to put my sister through it either. He told a friend what he was going to do, drove to a quiet spot, and used a gun. I have another buddy who is dying of cancer. He said he'd like to go out with a heroin OD. That sounded better to me.

Definitely easier on the person who finds you...

My very dear friend - who died before he got the chance to use it - said he'd try fentanyl. Sadly, it might be easier to find than heroin these days.

 

[dhuff]

Driving is easier than walking... many can attest to that.

My fantasy ending is to find a very nice spot in the wilderness somewhere, dig a hole, lay down in it, and then.....

My brother-in-law decided last fall that he didn't want to go through the ordeal of cancer treatment, which would probably fail anyway, and he didn't want to put my sister through it either. He told a friend what he was going to do, drove to a quiet spot, and used a gun. I have another buddy who is dying of cancer. He said he'd like to go out with a heroin OD. That sounded better to me.

Oregon has their Death With Dignity Act, which as of March 2022 no longer enforces a residency requirement. Here's the top level website at oregon.gov about it, with links to a FAQ page, etc...

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/provi...research/deathwithdignityact/pages/index.aspx

"To participate, a patient must be: (1) 18 years of age or older, (2) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and (3) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met."

I firmly believe that each person has a right to decide when it's their time to go and at least Oregon is making strides in that direction for the terminally ill.

 

[Catalystgrrl]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies.

The Senior Housing that I've checked so far has a 1 to 2 year waiting list. That is do-able if I plan ahead. Assisted living (shudder) may someday be in my stars, but so far I am a healthy and active (knock on wood) senior. It's just that I know better than to live in de-Nile (and not the one in Egypt) for too long. I liquidated and went nomading a few years back and am glad I did. Now I am seeing another change on the horizon and want to start planning ahead. I might also point out that father time will come for all of us sooner or later and the current housing market is downright frightening.

In the meantime, if anyone has any specific ideas or information, please continue to share them. I would love to hear something like Podunk Iowa just made unlimited RV

There's a small town in upstate NY selling homes for around $50k. Jamestown, NY [where Lucille Ball was from.] I grew up in the vicinity but have been in CA for 35 years. Still considering it, just to have something for old age. I stalk zillow trying to find the cheapest, nicest ones. Though the town is run down, the surrounding areas are very pretty with vineyards, wineries (Westfield, NY), and Chautauqua Lake - home of a renowned music school.

Oregon has their Death With Dignity Act, which as of March 2022 no longer enforces a residency requirement. Here's the top level website at oregon.gov about it, with links to a FAQ page, etc...

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/ph/provi...research/deathwithdignityact/pages/index.aspx

"To participate, a patient must be: (1) 18 years of age or older, (2) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and (3) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met."

I firmly believe that each person has a right to decide when it's their time to go and at least Oregon is making strides in that direction for the terminally ill.

Totally agree on this. I've always said I'll skip any cancer "treatment" and go lie down in a forest somewhere. Lovely to hear Oregon has done it. We've been putting our sights up that way. My partner's family all live up there.

 

[Sage]

Driving is easier than walking... many can attest to that.

My fantasy ending is to find a very nice spot in the wilderness somewhere, dig a hole, lay down in it, and then.....

My brother-in-law decided last fall that he didn't want to go through the ordeal of cancer treatment, which would probably fail anyway, and he didn't want to put my sister through it either. He told a friend what he was going to do, drove to a quiet spot, and used a gun. I have another buddy who is dying of cancer. He said he'd like to go out with a heroin OD. That sounded better to me.

It may be easier for the person with a terminal disease. They have no clue how selfish they are taking those last days, weeks, or months of themselves away from their loved ones. Do they even consider the spiritual side of suicide?

 

[rruff]

It may be easier for the person with a terminal disease. They have no clue how selfish they are taking those last days, weeks, or months of themselves away from their loved ones. Do they even consider the spiritual side of suicide?

Every circumstance is different. I like being with a dying person when everyone has given up on saving them. But I think I'd like being with someone who was able to choose the ending of their life too... maybe more. People can linger for a long time (months, years) after there is no hope, and just rack up huge medical bills, be in terrible pain, be unresponsive, etc. Are the family or friends gaining anything from this?

For myself, I have no kids or wife and live a long way from any family. And from what I've heard, friends and even partners don't have access when you are in a hospital. I'd rather not die in one of those if I have a choice in the matter. And I definitely don't know anyone who'd like to take care of me... particularly for a long chunk of time.

I'd give anyone who wanted to say goodbye notification, and ample opportunity. As to the actual event, I may be selective about that audience... depends on who is around, if anyone. Seems pretty sane to me.

I don't know what spiritual side you are thinking of... more details?

 

[Morgana]

It may be easier for the person with a terminal disease. They have no clue how selfish they are taking those last days, weeks, or months of themselves away from their loved ones. Do they even consider the spiritual side of suicide?

If you are ever in that position yourself, then you will have the right to make those judgments for yourself. But you will never have the right to make them for anyone else.

Instead of assuming you know what's "easy" or "selfish" or "spiritual" for another person, focus on holding yourself to the highest standards in all three areas. For example, it's arguably "easy" to judge someone you don't know, "selfish" to try to take away control over the last days another person will ever spend on this earth, and "unspiritual" to assume you understand the infinite complexity of the human experience and take it on yourself to dictate what someone else should do when facing a terrible choice.

I'm guessing that the answer to your question is, in many cases, "yes, of course they do." Never assume that because someone has a point of view different from yours, it's because they haven't thought about it.

If you don't want to be judged that way, don't judge other people.

 

[rruff]

Instead of assuming you know what's "easy" or "selfish" or "spiritual" for another person, focus on holding yourself to the highest standards in all three areas.

My little sister died this summer. First diagnosis was stage 4 cancer... it was everywhere... and she lived about 3 more weeks. I would have loved to be with her, but I discovered that her husband and 5 kids (the youngest just graduated college) and the other family members nearby were begging her to stay alive, and begging for a miraculous recovery. That is something I can't do, so I decided to wait. She did recover briefly, then had a heart attack and was comatose a day later. My other sister allowed me to call when she was in that state, and I and wrongly assumed that the begging would be over, but the husband listened in, censured me, and cut me off. He wanted only 100% begging... I guess even until her last breath. I was annoyed, but... they are all very religious as she was, and they are more immediate to her than I am, so that's the way it was...

My mom died in a similar way (sudden stage 4 cancer) only there was no begging involved. It was great to be with her during her last week, when she was in hospice. She let go of her burdens in life, stopped worrying about my dad, and became innocent and childlike... and then unconscious. It was a gracious passing I think.

For me, it's a horrifying thought to be surrounded by people who are clinging and hanging on. IMO that is extremely selfish. Death is a big deal for the person dying, and the living need to get with the program!

 

[Morgana]

For me, it's a horrifying thought to be surrounded by people who are clinging and hanging on.

That was enough of a concern for me that I specified in my "living will" who I did not consent to have notified or involved if I became incapacitated. That is the last (literally!) time in my life that I want to be reduced to bit player in somebody else's movie.

Hopefully, rruff, your sister was able to hear the quiet voice amidst the noise and gain some comfort/strength from your call, in spite of how awful it must have been for you. The gap between intensely prescriptive people (religious or otherwise) and more live-and-let-live types may be the most unbridgeable gap of all. It's good that you stood up.

 

[bullfrog !]

This is difficult for me to talk about but needs to be said. My dad passed away few years ago while in hospice care in Kentucky. There are several states like Kentucky that refuse to allow a person choose to die rather than suffer. My dad early on could have had surgery which most likely would have killed him but my mother convinced him not to. By the time I got there they wouldn’t do surgery as it was certain to kill him so the only choice was hospice. Yes I know there are drugs to help “ease the pain” but those people even with the best drugs suffer. The drugs in many cases cause them to suffer longer. It took nine long days for my dad to pass begging for it to end begging for water and more morphine. Even morphine becomes less affective it seems. We could give him both but morphine slows body functions I guess and by doing so extends your time laying in bed and suffering. Some people last over 30 days with no food or water while on morphine according to my dad’s caregiver. I value every moment I had with my dad but wouldn’t want any human or their family to go through those nine days. Laws need to change.

 

[rruff]

That's a classic case where they should have just helped it end... but that isn't the way we do things. We'd rather let people be tortured and die in agony... for some reason. We've always considered it mercy to put a dying animal out of its misery, but...

 

[jacqueg]

That's a classic case where they should have just helped it end... but that isn't the way we do things. We'd rather let people be tortured and die in agony... for some reason. We've always considered it mercy to put a dying animal out of its misery, but...

I think certain people insist on hanging on (either hanging on themselves or deciding another person should hang on) because they expect a miracle. They think they're owed, maybe? I dunno.

 

[Frood]

I will never fault someone for deciding when their time has come. I've given it a bit of thought myself. There are now 11 states that have made it legal to make this a personal medical decision. ( https://www.compassionandchoices.or...ries-where-medical-aid-in-dying-is-authorized ) I am glad my daughter lives in one. It is also one reason I use her mailing address and tend to visit often.

But, I have seen people that refuse to give up their keys. My father-in-law used to scare me - big time. Finally, many of us refused to ride in his vehicle. Luckily he finally listened to the people around him - before he killed himself OR someone else. Most of us are older, with slower reaction times, and drive vehicles with a much longer stopping distance. I think it behooves us to make sure we know when to quit. If not for ourselves, then for the other people we might put at risk.

Of course as self-driving vehicles become more and more the norm this becomes less and less of an issue...

 

[maki2]

This situation is not easy for Nomads as you might not have a right to die with dignity choice to make depending on the location in which you become incapacitated. It does not matter what your home state is, it matters where you are when the time comes.

 

[Sage]

Every circumstance is different. I like being with a dying person when everyone has given up on saving them. But I think I'd like being with someone who was able to choose the ending of their life too... maybe more. People can linger for a long time (months, years) after there is no hope, and just rack up huge medical bills, be in terrible pain, be unresponsive, etc. Are the family or friends gaining anything from this?

For myself, I have no kids or wife and live a long way from any family. And from what I've heard, friends and even partners don't have access when you are in a hospital. I'd rather not die in one of those if I have a choice in the matter. And I definitely don't know anyone who'd like to take care of me... particularly for a long chunk of time.

I'd give anyone who wanted to say goodbye notification, and ample opportunity. As to the actual event, I may be selective about that audience... depends on who is around, if anyone. Seems pretty sane to me.

I don't know what spiritual side you are thinking of... more details?

Maybe you never have been there when someone committed suicide and saw the grief it causes the family. I have and I've been there when my own loved ones died from cancer and other long term illnesses that they would not recover from. Just so it is clear I was there for the last 5 months of my mother's life. That time allowed her 4 children, step son and many grandchildren to come, some from great distances and have days with her knowing she didn't have many left and say their good byes and for Mother it gave her the opportunity to know her children were all together again, even if it was for her impending death. Same for a brother, a husband, an aunt, a sister-in-law and numerous friends who died from incurable diseases. None of these families grieved unduly or without comfort like I've seen happen from suicides where some family members grieved severely for years. Maybe that helps you understand why I can say it is selfish to take your own life. Maybe it would be different if they let the family and friends in on their medical situation so when the deed was done there would be understanding.

Having time to say your good byes also, gives those that love you do to do last acts of kindness and show their love while the sick person is alive. That is an important thing for many people to do.

 

[bullfrog !]

^^^life and death decisions are made every day by each and every individual whether they realize it or not. Once you realize there is no treatment that can prevent you from living in pain and have only a short time to live as determined by medical science it should be up to the individual or the appointed decision maker to get personal matters taken care of and decide when or if to end their suffering. Once that difficult decision is made no man made law should interfere in my opinion.