vandwelling in film, press, utube, facebook, radio,

[FALCON]

Love ya, Kurbmaster, but how has that worked out for the homeless?

I believe that NO ONE is going to go to bat for vandwellers, in the legal arena. And dwellers don't have a bottomless pit of legal funds, the support of public opinion, or a system of bureaucratic support behind them.

Oh well...

It's working out quite well for them in Seattle and Portland, udging from what I hear from my friends who live there, by what I saw on the news in Portland, and by seemingly permanence of areas that homeless have set up as homes in the public. There are what they call (Special) "Bum's rights" there.. And supposedly Seattle has a sort of "mayor of the homeless" who acts as a representative to communicate with the city government on behalf of the homeless, and who has significant sway. (This is as reported from the viewpoint of residents who live in houses there, so IDK what the homeless themselves would say).

I also don't see much being done for vandwellers. It's a very fringe issue. The impact is much smaller than the homeless. And changes to camping rules in BLM/National Forests are likely to negatively impact everyone camping there - most of whom are "normal" people doing "normal" camping in stints of a few days, and who would be very difficult to educate (quickly) about some stupid laws requiring you to register where you are camping and for how many days. Whereas with homeless, laws targeting them can be more specific and can impact only them with no negative or annoying consequences for the "normal" people living in houses in those cities. The only positive law changes I see as options for us is making it legal to "camp" in vehicles on city streets and eliminating some of the restrictive parking laws. IMO, that wouldn't be a huge benefit as, in a plain white van, it's so easy to stay in those places anyways.

But.. Another factor here is that the arena most of us are concerned about (BLM and National Forests) is much smaller than where the Homeless are (cities with millions of people). This means that getting changes (one way or the other) take convincing a smaller number of people than changing laws for metropolitan cities. (except if all the "Normal" campers find out and stop it.. those people would be our allies here to prevent changes that would negatively impact vandwellers)

 

[Lafnbug]

These are the two most recent Google results to the cities you are citing.

Notice the sign in the photo (Housing Not Camping). I don't want to live in a house, or have a fixed address:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...-prompts-emotional-seattle-city-hall-hearing/

Yeah, it sounds like unicorns and rainbows:
http://www.kgw.com/news/investigati...eless-crisis-is-at-a-breaking-point/156737977

 

[FALCON]

The homeless in those cities have it better than anywhere else in the U.S. They have more rights, more protection, and more public support.

That guy holding the sign is supporting the homeless. He's promoting the creation of more (free) housing for homeless people. That's what many/most homeless want.

Edit - IDK why I'm going on about this.. It's getting off the subject of the thread..

 

[Vagabound]

Lafnbug:
[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]But, what do I know? I know that I am in the minority here![/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]From where I sit, you know quite a bit. That was a very insightful, logical, and intelligent analysis[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif].  Well done.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Tom[/font]

 

[Lafnbug]

I have no idea what this filmmaker's intentions are; she has spoken with Bob apparently, but has provided no details. Sorry, but I don't assume benevolence.

This has come up before.

I was hoping to spark some dialogue about this. I am sick of seeing media exploitation, particularly when aimed at people just trying to survive in TotalitariLand. The last time I posted my thoughts on this, the crickets came out. It's all in vain on my part, but I hope some people will read these comments and think about those of us that are struggling on the streets, and the eventual ramifications of endless 'promotion' in a system that will always despise 'outsiders'.

Being in Baltimore, I am up close and personal with homelessness at every major intersection. I am not exaggerating. The city doesn't want them. The citizens don't want them. The cops don't want them. Nobody wants them.

It will be no different with the vandwellers, if the spotlight continues to be shone. This should be obvious; I'm not sure why it isn't. I can think of several possible legal scenarios that could be borne out of this, and none of these eventualities favor the dwellers. I'm not going to waste my time writing it all, but suffice it to say that all the information we put 'out there' can, and will be, used against the movement when the 'need' arises. Sound familiar?

And, for the record, I don't believe vehicle dwelling to be a Passing Fad.

Enjoy it while you can!

 

[Vagabound]

I have no idea what this filmmaker's intentions are; she has spoken with Bob apparently, but has provided no details. Sorry, but I don't assume benevolence.

This has come up before.

I was hoping to spark some dialogue about this. I am sick of seeing media exploitation, particularly when aimed at people just trying to survive in TotalitariLand. The last time I posted my thoughts on this, the crickets came out. It's all in vain on my part, but I hope some people will read these comments and think about those of us that are struggling on the streets, and the eventual ramifications of endless 'promotion' in a system that will always despise 'outsiders'.
...

Passing Fad:
It's unclear to me whether the person talking about a passing fad was referring to making videos about van dwelling or van dwelling itself. I think the first one might very well be a passing fad.

Crickets:
This one is more difficult. But I would hazard I guess that there are at least three main parts to the lack of reaction.

1. It's actually a difficult and complicated topic. So maybe some of the lack of reply indicates thoughtful contemplation. If so, that's a good thing.

2. This site has such tight controls on the acceptable limits of conversation that I'm sure people either think they cannot comment and stay within those borders or they don't want to bother to try. Not interested in reopening that whole issue about censorship, but I'd bet it's a factor.

3. Related to the item above, I'm sure there are people who are afraid of pissing off Bob because he made it quite clear that he's hosting this filmmaker and supports the project. Too much consideration of this factor, if that's happening, is a bad sign.

One of my favorite quotations, attributable to different people depending on where you find it, is this one:

The greatest form of loyalty is dissent.

A concept that is neither well nor commonly understood.

Tom

 

[DannyB1954]

We don't always have a say in what others do or not do. People are not responsible for doing or not doing what others might want or not want. If someone wants to make a documentary all I can do is wish them the very best. Predict doom and gloom or feel like a victim if you like. The world will go on without your approval. This will be on public land, so the only right you have is to leave. The person doing the video has every right to be there, and do as they please. Freedom isn't just for a few.

If you only want videos of people acting crazy at the Slabs, is that is supposed to help the vandweller image? One video is not going to sway public opinion.

As far as Bob's involvement, I hope he does help find people who do represent the community well to be interviewed. If someone wanted to portray the group in a bad light, they could find the right people all on their own. In all of the videos that Bob made I see him making an effort to make the other person look good. Oh, that was a good idea, that was certainly done well, this is very nice, etc.

On Kissing up to Bob, we have differing points of view on major issues and I am still around.

 

[highdesertranger]

very well said Danny. highdesertranger

 

[waldenbound]

I'm still a van dweller in waiting, but I'll give my thought.

I think it would be inspirational to show a documentary on the good van dwellers can do.
Show van dwellers at work, such as getting off a shift at Amazon, or a Christmas tree farm, or as a campground host, whatever it is.
Show van dwellers at play, taking a kayak out on a lake, a group going for a stroll in the late afternoon, or gathering around a campfire.
Show how responsible van dwellers can be, like talking to a Forest Service ranger about the rules, picking up a permit, cleaning up camp when it's time to move on.
Show the freedoms that can be had with van dwelling, that it's a conscious decision for some, to be free, independent, yet responsible citizens.

Maybe this is too much of a romanticized version, but let people see it's not all broken down vans parked along Ballard streets in Seattle, or making a big mess in a FS campground and leaving it.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

Everytime we watch a utube, or participate on film, or even reply to a thread, we are promoting vandwelling, to different degrees.. I know you can't stop it but should we be going out of our way to promote it, the good or the bad of it.

 

[Lafnbug]

Hopefully the eventual overexposure will be a benefit to the community.

I am not attempting to piss anyone off, but wanted to raise some questions. Neither Paige nor Bob has chimed in here.

I will say that being on camera, without consent, doesn't thrill me either. And the lack of the courtesy of a response to my query in that thread makes me wonder.

I have been on the fence about attending RTR for a variety of reasons, but I will now vote with my feet.

 

[BC Guy]

I have been on the fence about attending RTR for a variety of reasons, but I will now vote with my feet.

Likewise.

 

[highdesertranger]

the area where RTR is, is huge. you can be as close as you want to the center or as far away as you want. if you are on the outskirts I can't see how you would be inadvertently filmed. she did say she would ask for permission. everybody is caught on camera everyday anyway. highdesertranger

 

[Vagabound]

...
(1) I am not attempting to piss anyone off, but wanted to raise some questions. Neither Paige nor Bob has chimed in here.

...

(2) I have been on the fence about attending RTR for a variety of reasons, but I will now vote with my feet.

 
Regarding #1 (numbers added), same goes for me. However, maybe another reason that people aren't responding much to your suggested discussion is that if they voice an opinion contrary to the mainstream, it can elicit mean-spirited or borderline hostile responses.

Regarding #2, that would be a shame. I was looking forward to meeting you and seeing your truck.   Hope you reconsider, but if you don't, I can understand why.

Despite the suggestions, I am still not sure how to deal with public video making without permission of the people getting filmed. However, I'm still going to go and work it out as I go along. Hoping for the best in the form of mutual respect.

Tom

 

[FALCON]

There are thousands of videos about vandwelling already on Youtube, and millions of pictures on Instagram. If one more video bothers you a lot, you should be having a continual anxiety attack about all the content that already exists. There's really no use being bothered by it. It doesn't benefit you to get angry or annoyed. You're not going to stop more of these from happening. Paige and all the others will find people who are happy to be in the videos. If you're worried about the effect it could have, your best bet is to convince Paige to do the documentary in whichever way you think is best.

I do think Paige should be doing a better job of clarifying her intentions with the film/video/documentary (what the slant will be. How she will be shooting - just single person interviews? footage of the whole group? etc.), and at least answering people's questions on the forum.

 

[Gary68]

And, for the record, I don't believe vehicle dwelling to be a Passing Fad.

to clarify-passing fad as in the utube and in thing to build a van to live in

living mobile-conestoga wagon or roma has been done for as long as there has been the wheel



my???-is it or is it not legal to film someone in public without their permission or is it regional?

 

[akrvbob]

This is commercial film production, no one will be in it without a signed consent form. Very strict laws and penalties about that.

However, at any given moment there will be dozens of people taking photos for their websites, the odds are very good someone will take your photo sometime.

If you MUST not have your photo on the net, you probably should not come.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I'm still a van dweller in waiting, but I'll give my thought.

I think it would be inspirational to show a documentary on the good van dwellers can do.
Show van dwellers at work, such as getting off a shift at  Amazon, or a Christmas tree farm, or as a campground host, whatever it is.
Show van dwellers at play, taking a kayak out on a lake, a group going for a stroll in the late afternoon, or gathering around a campfire.
Show how responsible van dwellers can be, like talking to a Forest Service ranger about the rules, picking up a permit, cleaning up camp when it's time to move on.
Show the freedoms that can be had with van dwelling,  that it's a conscious decision for some, to be free, independent, yet responsible citizens.

Maybe this is too much of a romanticized version, but let people see it's not all broken down vans parked along Ballard streets in Seattle, or making a big mess in a FS campground and leaving it.

they did this with Marlboro adds, I heard the Marlboro man died of lung cancer. They also do this with Coke adds who knows what happens to those kids likely all overweight and diabetics now. Same with the current lot of vandwelling videos most taped on sunny days with people happy to talk about themselves and their creations. It does put a Leave it to Beaver spin on it Gosh Darn .....

 

[Vagabound]

I'm still a van dweller in waiting, but I'll give my thought.

I think it would be inspirational to show a documentary on the good van dwellers can do.
Show van dwellers at work, such as ..
 

When I posted earlier in the thread about a documentary promoting the ethics of van dwelling, this is similar to what I had in mind even though I didn't explain it.

Nice description.

Tom

 

[Thirsty Boots Nomad]

Not sure how many have seen this yet (or care one way or the other:

A video posted in Dec. 2015 regarding retired vandwellers