Unbuildable lots- potential for vandwellers?

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Svenn

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I wonder if those extremely cheap un-buildable lots restricted by zoning/ordinances etc are big potential for vandwellers?  I know the tiny house people have a lot of trouble with codes, sometimes so far as destroying their dream entirely; but it seems like we would have an advantage over them, especially our stealth vehicles, because we're arguably not even 'recreational vehicles'... we'd just be cars parked on our own land.  As with most things in this arena, I assume it would boil down to whether your neighbors report you or if you're visible from the street.
 
Here in Pahrump Nv. you can get a permit to live in an RV on your land for 6 months a year. The rub is that most affordable lots are not large enough to have septic or a well, and the utilities are not in the area. You can build any type of structure up to 200 Sq' without a permit. I recently helped build a mud hut made from plastic tubes and barbed wire for someone doing just that.
 
How much do the pahrump lots cost, and can you string a few of them together to put in a well and septic?
 
I think the guy I helped paid $2k for a small lot 60 x 90 I think. If you put several together you would have to find people on adjoining lots that want to sell, then you would have to get the county to approve the rezoning. Would be a lot easier to buy a tax lien dilapidated mobile that already has a well and septic.
 
how deep is the water there? 35k is a conservative figure for a well and septic in my opinion. highdesertranger
 
How far off the path do you want? Offgrid?

I have 10 acres in Montello Nv. Its an old silver mining town. 120 full timers call this dust bowl home. I gave 500 an acre. No water, power, or sewer..Just a place to enjoy peace and quiet. I do get 3g cell, and there is a town water spigot to fill up with water. For 5k, I have more land than I could ever use. 435,600 square feet!!


One day after I retire, I plan to haul in good topsoil, so I can have my very own oasis in the desert. Property taxe s run $35 a year. Most of the town folk just mind thier own business.

We have 1 motel, a gas station, and a bar. We are 30 min from the Utah border.
Google Elko County Nv. Its in the extreme NE part of Nv. Summers are miled, as you are higher up. However, winters can be a little chilly.



REVELATIONS 8
 
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REVELATIONS 8
 
highdesertranger said:
how deep is the water there?  35k is a conservative figure for a well and septic in my opinion.  highdesertranger

My static level is 66 feet. My well was drilled shallow at 100 feet. Most are now drilled to 140. 
The idea that I was trying to present was that it is probably not the best value to buy vacant unimproved land.
One can buy a lot with a used mobile, septic, well, and electricity, for cheaper than they could buy vacant land and do the improvements.
 
Milk Hauler said:
I have 10 acres in Montello Nv. Its an old silver mining town. 120 full timers call this dust bowl home. I gave 500 an acre. No water, power, or sewer..Just a place to enjoy peace and quiet. I do get 3g cell, and there is a town water spigot to fill up with water. For 5k, I have more land than I could ever use. 435,600 square feet!!

Hi. Do you winter there?

I have five acres in Eureka county, Crescent Valley. Well and septic, no power. Backed by BLM land. Winter would be harsh. But that is why God created Ehrenberg. 4G tower nearby, excellent signal. Barrick Mining probably uses Verizon. Same thing with town water spigot.

Barrick Cortez mine is down the highway where the highway ends. Truck traffic is double bottom ore trucks heading up to I80.

A general rule of thumb I have found in lower Nevada is that any dirt road off of a paved road has a mine at or near the end of the road. The better graded and wider road will have a bigger mining operation.

The only Walmart in the north east quarter of Nevada is in Elko. There are none in central NV along US50. US50 is a time warp. Austin is exactly as it was in 1970 when I was there, and probably farther back than that. Eureka looks the same. I am going up tomorrow and will go through Ely to check it out.

-Wayne
 
Does'nt it rain there? collect rain water ? 
Truck it in if you have a drought?
 
in northern Nevada most of the precipitation is in the form of snow. after all Nevada means snowy place in Spanish. highdesertranger
 
I want to add a bit to this because there are a lot of RV people buying lots in the land scam areas of New Mexico and haven't really done their homework about the risks and dangers involved.  It was my researching this idea that led to me finding the property I'm going to look at in the spring, and am saving the down payment for(or for something else if I don't like it) by camping in Ehrenberg for the winter.

First, info about one of the land scams in the area I'm looking in:

http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/393/590/348176/

http://forum.freeadvice.com/other-r...s-11/seattle-world-fair-land-scam-193188.html

The basic jist of this is Golubin bought huge tracts of desolate, over grazed by sheep land for next to nothing and set up a scam where they "gave" a piece of land away to "prize winners" and then high pressure salesmen would go after these people to buy adjoining lots.  He made it look like these were going to be wonderful middle class residential areas and that infrastructure was being put in place when all that was done was dirt roads graded in, some of which can't be seen today.  He got busted for mail fraud and spent time in jail but the state never worked out some kind of legal relief for the new property owners or settled the bankruptcy that occurred with the land company.  

While these lots can be legally bought and sold you can't get title insurance on them, you can't get a mortgage on them.  Most of the area was subdivided into 1/4 acre lots and the state stipulates you must have at least 3/4 of an acre for a legal septic system.

For those seeking to build without permits: no one is buying them and the county isn't going out to these residences to enforce it.  It's literally a no mans land of un-legal building and strangely enough you can buy homeowners insurance.  However, grow pot and you open yourself up to being arrested without a warrant.

Here's the very real part: if the state ever decides to legally settle the bankruptcy many people could potentially lose their lots in the process.  However, since the price of lots is dirt cheap(unless a seller is trying to take advantage of the gullible) many people are taking that risk because many of the lots are less than the price of a months rent.  No joke.  Depending on the location of the lot you can buy a 1/4 acre anywhere from say around $700 to $2000.  Property taxes are about $15 a year.  However, again no one can get mortgages for these lots so if you make any improvements and decide to sell later you are going to be at the mercy of people having the cash to buy.

There's a volunteer fire department complete with their own firetruck, you can get internet throughout most of the area via TaosNet wireless and the police will come out if something happens but it takes a little bit for them to get out there.  There is also a legal community well you get your water from if you buy in the right area.  If your lot is close enough to see the airport you can get great cell service.  Power is by solar or wind only.

If you're truly adventurous you can build a small septic system with 250 gallon ICB totes and companies will come out to pump them but these properties will never go up in value because again, there's no infrastructure.  They are great lots for people to park their RVs on and maybe have some kind of small building or house built from a shed but that's about all.  Drilling a well, NO!  It costs a good $20k to drill one.  There is a post office in Carson you can get a rural mailbox.  The roads are NOT maintained all that much so some lots require having a 4x4 to get to during monsoons and snow.

What I've described is all in Taos county.  There's a separate land scam west of Albuquerque around Belen that people are also buying lots in as well but I like snow too much so I haven't really looked into them.  One section of that land scam area successfully petitioned the state and they are now a legally titled community.

So in closing yes, there is some incredibly cheap land out there but you get what you pay for.  If you are considering this kind of purchase be aware that some areas don't have physical addresses so you may have trouble with that, as well as if you buy a lot you must consider that you are stuck with it and won't be able to sell it.  Taos county has a property tax auction each year and these lots are always on it because the owners just let them go, they really aren't worth all that much.

Also fair warning, there is an area of the land scam that a lot of people with issues escaped to.  These people are mostly located in Units 4 and 5 in the Carson/Two Peaks area.  Fair warning.  There was a documentary done about some of the people living in this area called "Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa".  Recently I was made aware of some murders there.  This is not an easy area to live for anyone but there are others who have made decent lives for themselves in other units away from the crime ridden ones.



I hope this brings some reality to those looking in the area.
 
If you fancy building something that would not meet building codes, I think Nye County Nevada is the place to be. If you buy a falling down stick built house here say at a tax lien sale, you can add onto that structure with anything you want any way you want it without any type of permit as long as the original structure was built before 1997 and you use at least one wall of the original structure.

Every other place I have lived if you make an improvement, the original structure has to be brought up to code. Not here. I guess their logic is if the original structure was not certified, why certify the addition.
 
^^ Thanks for the link to "Off the Grid: Life on the Mesa". I watched it. I passed by this area while looking for land in Taos. Just looking at what they live in makes me think it's a hard, hard life and I am thankful that I have more.
 
DannyB1954 said:
If you fancy building something that would not meet building codes, I think Nye County Nevada is the place to be.

I'm looking for property that I can enjoy all 4 seasons in their respective glory; the leaves changing color in fall, snow in the winter, staring a decent garden in spring and then traveling somewhere else if it gets too hot in summer.  Okay so maybe I'm skipping summer, lol.  I definitely want to be left alone regarding building because I want my house to be very small *if* I built one at all.  TBH I could be just as happy with a "barn" made from 2 shipping containers and a roof built over them with one for a shop and storage and the other as a "house".

The property I was going to look at may have some legal issues of it's own I want no part of.  While I enjoy the road and have no problem being "out" for long periods of time I also need shutdown time away, a home base.  My search continues...
 
If you are willing to travel for at least one of the seasons, most of the USA will meet your requirements. A lot of the US is only unpleasant one out of the four seasons. All around temperate climates are mostly near the oceans, and they too can have their problems, (population, crime, cost of living etc.). Where I am it is heat in the summer, and occasionally high winds. In some places wind gusts of 90 MPH is newsworthy. Here it is just look out the window and see if your patio furniture is still in your yard.

Slab City is more of a homeless camp. I think people go there also like they would a zoo, to look at the animals. Between alcohol and drug abuse, petty thievery, and the group of mentally ill people there, I would rather live somewhere else.
 
Very interesting thread to me.


(Milk Hauler) I have 10 acres in Montello Nv.

I promise I'm not trying to be snippy.  I've looked into Elko a bit myself.  Having been a landowner before (property about your size), I have to question the value and purpose of increasing one's land size when it all looks like the surface of the moon?  

In other words, if you're not after a larger parcel in order to get some trees, or a creek, or a pasture, or some feature such as that, then what is the practical difference between a 1-acre parcel and a 10-acre parcel?  One acre is plenty for a small house, a bit of storage, and a place to park one's vehicle, etc.

Maybe the subject land in Elko has more geographical features and variety than average NV land.

-------

Wells:  What has surprised me the most in this thread is the price quoted for well drilling in NV.  Recently, I asked for a quote to drill a similar depth well in N. FL.  This was the well driller's reply:

"Shallow as 80ft and deep as 200ft.  Contractor package $2800, premium package $3100. Both include drilling up to 100ft and 1hp pumps. Tank size is determined by package and drilling after 100 ft is $14-$15 per foot."

What is it about Nevada that would cause the cost of drilling a well to be 5-10x more than in Florida (at the same depth)?  It certainly can't be obstacles in the way. ;-)

Regarding small parcels:  While researching land in FL this last year, I had an eye-opening experience.  There are many parcels for sale that are too small to be practically usable (can't get approval for septic, whatever).  There are not just a few.  There are many, many whole planned subdivisions like this.  Their official terminology for them is "antiquated subdivision."  Often few or no people live in them.  Some developer's plan that didn't pan out or an outright attempt at fraud.

In any case, the state/county/city is fully aware of it, and says that it is perfectly legal for people to sell such parcels.  When I asked how such nonsense could be allowed, they said that rules change over time, and they try to work with new purchasers to get them waivers, etc.

Dealing with land, there are more preposterous shenanigans -- as standard operating procedure -- than most people would believe who stick to standard suburban neighborhoods.

Vagabound
 
I don't know the tax rules for all states of course but I have a home on a little under 15 acres and I pay less in taxes for that that I pay for a rental home on 1/3 of an acre. Over ten acres and you have a farm and the taxes are WAY lower. I think I pay about $150 a year or thereabouts.


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Vagabound said:
...

What is it about Nevada that would cause the cost of drilling a well to be 5-10x more than in Florida (at the same depth)?  It certainly can't be obstacles in the way. ;-)
...

I've finally sunken to the low, low state of replying to myself.  The end is near! ;-)

But on this point ... I just noticed that someone in another unrelated thread made a comment that digging a hole for a trench latrine in the Quartzsite or Ehrenberg area (rules aside) would be nearly impossible due to the hardness of the soil.  Maybe that's the answer to my question above.  If so, it would take more time to drill, more fuel, more wear and tear on the drilling equipment, and more of all mandatory well-drilling supplies, like cigarettes and beer of course.

Thanks, Vagabound.

You're welcome, Vagabound.

 :D
 
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