Tragic Propane Heater Accident

[Rainier70]

3 family members found dead at Brown County deer camp


http://www.ktxs.com/679434246

Please be very very careful with propane heaters and ventilation.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Dang.

Of course we can't see the other side, but it looks like there are no windows or vents.

 

[Florida boondocker]

very sad and a good warning but why would they post a pic of camp if they haven't released name

 

[AdventurousAdriana]

Oh wow, how sad. Two of the victims are from my city. A sober warning to us all.

 

[ZoNiE]

Or then the folks who run a generator in the basement...

 

[Wanderer]

Hill believes the victims died from carbon monoxide poisoning. He said the victims were using propane heaters to stay warm, but the cabin did not have proper ventilation.

There's the reason......I always have my side slide windows open when operating my heater.......

 

[RVTravel]

Propane goes up to the roof. If you don't have a roof vent and only side vents, you still should be cautious?

 

[tx2sturgis]

Propane goes up to the roof. If you don't have a roof vent and only side vents, you still should be cautious?

Huh?

Heated air rises, but raw propane vapor is heavier than air and sinks.

But it was the CO that got 'em.  Two or three heaters and no vents.

 

[Wanderer]

Propane goes up to the roof. If you don't have a roof vent and only side vents, you still should be cautious?

Well, yes that's still holds true. We are having light wind so that would help with air exchange. But since I am wearing fleece pants. knit socks and a cap (Thank you $1 store!) I usually run my heater full blast for 20 min then shut it down. Even when it hit 34 or less I was still warm....

I'm going to see what January/Feb has in store. I suspect I can make it at 20 degrees also since I have a sleeping bag which can deal with that cold.

But in truth some type of venting is always desired when running a heater with open flame....

 

[geogentry]

From the sounds of the article it was one adult and two teenagers.

Senseless deaths.  A carbon monoxide detector that is battery powered doesn't even cost $20 on Amazon.  

I got poisoned once, and was lucky, by the time you realize something is wrong your thinking is really dull.  I made it to clear air but it as just poor dumb luck, left me sick for days after.  If I had been sleeping like those poor people I would have never made it.

 

[RVTravel]

I misspoke and meant carbon monoxide and not propane...oops.

From First Alert website...
"For Gas Alarms, mounting depends on the type of explosive gas you intend to detect.
Natural Gas (methane) is typically supplied through a main utility line connected to your home. If you do not live in a rural area you are likely to be a user of natural gas. Natural gas is a fossil fuel consisting mainly of Methane. Methane is much lighter than air and will rise rapidly in air. If you are a user of natural gas, the Alarm should be mounted between 6 and 12 inches (152mm and 305 mm) away from the ceiling (using cord feature) to ensure the earliest opportunity to detect a leak.
Propane is typically supplied to homes by delivery truck in liquid form and stored near the home in propane tanks. Propane is used by homes in rural areas that do not have natural gas service. Since propane is the most commonly used Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG), propane and LP-Gas are often used synonymously. Unlike natural gas, propane is heavier than air and will collect at lower levels. If you are a user of propane, the Alarm should be mounted near the floor (using the direct plug-in feature) to ensure the earliest opportunity to detect a leak.

Both propane and natural gas are colorless and odorless. For safety reasons, an ordorant (Mercaptan) is added so that any leak can be detected by smell. The common detection threshold for smelling the gases is around 20% of the Lower Explosion Limit (LEL). This can vary greatly depending on the individuals sense of smell and how long they have been exposed to it. The LEL of each of these gases defines the bottom range of flammability for the gas. Your Alarm is calibrated to sound before 25% of the LEL of either gas detected.Therefore, it is possible that you may smell gas before the Alarm is activated. If you are not sure which gas your home uses, contact your utility company.

For CO Alarms, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) recommends that a CO Alarm should be centrally located outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms. For added protection, install additional CO Alarms in each separate bedroom, and on every level of your home."

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

From First Alert website...
...
For CO Alarms, the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) recommends that a CO Alarm should be centrally located outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms. For added protection, install additional CO Alarms in each separate bedroom, and on every level of your home."

One of my pet peeves is they spend two paragraphs explaining mounting height for gas detector alarms, but I don't think I've ever seen that level of detail for proper height of CO alarms. CO is lighter than air, so I feel safe assuming higher is better. But it's perplexing to me that they never seem to address mounting height for CO alarms.

 

[RVTravel]

Because some detectors work for both smoke and CO, I guess they feel no need to discuss further? The CO detectors are placed the same as smoke detectors according to them. You are right though. That stuff was from the manual of the combined detector.

 

[breeze]

Because some detectors work for both smoke and CO, I guess they feel no need to discuss further? The CO detectors are placed the same as smoke detectors according to them. You are right though. That stuff was from the manual of the combined detector.

And like the Bug out van rider says, a couple in redundancy don't hurt, in case your battery goes out on one. It's sad in this case, but hopefully their example will save countless lives. RIP!

 

[Stanvan]

This is why Coleman doesn't sell heaters of any kind anymore. People refuse to read the warnings, die, and then their family sues. And blaming the dead doesn't sit well with a jury.

 

[rvwandering]

There is no need to argue about this accident. If you have anything to add about safe practices concerning heating options please do that but any posts that are not helpful will be deleted.

 Review Bob's post if you are confused about what is appropriate -  There will be peace in the Forum.

 

[Kathleen]

Hill believes the victims died from carbon monoxide poisoning. He said the victims were using propane heaters to stay warm, but the cabin did not have proper ventilation.

There's the reason......I always have my side slide windows open when operating my heater.......

I put rain guards on  my front windows for ventilation when I get on the road and use propane inside minivan during inclement weather. I have heard some say they need to be rolled down an entire inch, other long term nomads have said 1/4 inch. 

Seems like an inch of cold air on both front windows would let in a lot of cold air but I want to be safe, not sorry.

 

[Every Road Leads Home]

I'd personally never go to sleep with an un vented propane heater running. With the right seeping bag and/or blankets sleeping in 30 degree weather is a piece of cake. 0 degrees is very doable. Getting out of bed is another story.....that's when those heaters are worth their weight in gold.

 

[Almost There]

^^^ + 1

I leave the heater all set up for the morning. Up to use the toilet, turn on the heater, crawl back in to bed and read until the van warms up and it's toasty in here. THEN I get up.

I use a fleece liner from my hammock set up on colder nights (down to the 30s), then add a fleece hoodie and/or thin thermals/mid weight thermals and warm socks. I don't use a sleeping bag but have the duvet folded in two so I have essentially 2 layers of warm duvet.

The warm socks and the hoodie are essential to keeping toes and head warm.

 

[SoulRaven]

This is very sad and unfortunate news. I'm very sorry to hear this, this is very sad for the three victims and for their families who have to live with terrible losses. It is heart breaking to think about how inexpensively it could have been avoided. I speak on safety in using LPG or other petro or etoh types of fuel used for heat/cooking. I want to know my friends are safe.