The Van - do we call it a day.

[judykazooty]

My partner Connie and I have been living full time in local NM State Parks for over 9 months in our 1976 Ford E250 High Top Camper Van with 40K on the odometer- clearly it was 140K. We needed more space and recently bought a home-built trailer on the forum which has become our home on wheels- a good choice. The van became our tow vehicle.  We Love it and yet it lets us down again and again. It causes us great anxiety.

This morning we met with a woman who wanted to buy our old travel trailer for $2000, but she backed out. We were counting on that money to put into a new vehicle. As we drove away, there was loud groaning and squealing from the middle to the rear... and... bucking. Felt like the brakes engaging and not letting go. Or...  our worst fear... a dreaded transmission issue. Our mechanic is away until Monday so we don't know what we are facing.

The question becomes, at what point do we abandon the van? At what point is it a bad idea to put more money into it. We are not mechanics, although we know a lot more now than we did when we started. Do we try to get another year out of it? Do we do the repair (big repair or huge repair?) and sell the van now? If we have to give it away, do we sell off the new equipment- converter, inverter, water pump, holding tanks, water heater, camera system, TV antenna, solar etc... Or do we buy something (SUV, truck?) newer with lower miles- is that even possible with maybe $3000.  This is still the life we want to live. It may be time to admit the the van is not working for us. We are parked, safe in a friend's back yard in our trailer-home... discouraged and tired. We applied for a year-long workcamper postion with the Forest Service that would be perfect for us. If we get it, it would start soon. The timing sucks. Hoping for a good report on Monday.  Judy

 

[user 423]

The rear brake linings on one of the wheels may be worn down to the metal and is seizing. If you can still drive it, after a ways stop and feel the wheels on each side. If one is hot, it's the culprit. Should smell pretty bad too.

Try to find someone who can tow your trailer to the FS job for a reasonable fee. I guess then you wouldn't have a vehicle to go shopping unless the FS provides one?  Maybe find a cheap car for transpo while you're working? 

It's hard to say on an old vehicle whether to fix or not. If you only have $3k, you could have just as much or more trouble with another van. Just need to see what the mechanic says.

Good luck

 

[Dennis]

Could very well be a rear brake locking up like slow2day said. I had one lock up recently but it released and I haven't looked into it yet.

I would say wait on your mechanic then you will have more information to make a decision with.

 

[Gideon33w]

If it's the transmission or the rear differential the vehicle is essentially totaled since the value is so low. Besides, pouring money into it when it will probably need other major work soon likely isn't the wisest choice if you have options. It's hard to say without more info on the problem but on something that age I would hesitate to spend more than a few hundred if it's just going to cost you more later still. If it is a transmission issue I believe you have a C6 which is notoriously pricey to rebuild.

Personally, I'd sell the trailer and take all the vandwelling goodies out of the old girl and put them into whatever you can find that fits your needs/budget.

You mentioned a $3,000 figure. Is that with or without the sale of the camper? Good vans can be found for that budget either way. Or a replacement tow vehicle if that is the route you choose.

As for the vandwelling gear you already have ... You probably wont get nearly the money out you have in. It would be better to retain it if possible.

 

[CautionToTheWind]

Sounds like brake shoes being hot.

 

[Gary68]

start by making sure the e brake is disengaged

a vehicle is dead when it is rusted out or damaged,you should be able to find 70's ford parts pretty easy and cheap
does the engine run good? no smoke or knocks?

is all you want is a tow vehicle a truck would be best,a high top van is a valuable thing and if running good should get you a pretty penny

 

[jonyjoe303]

when the differential on my astrovan started going bad, thats a symptom I had, I felt like my front brakes where locking up and then releasing. I never suspected it was the rear differential. 

I took it to a brake shop and they couldnt find anything wrong with my front brakes, as I was leaving they heard my van chirping and decided to raise the rearend, when they spun one of the wheels it wasnt spinning freely. As you spin one tire forward the opposite tire should spin in reverse without sticking. If both wheels spin in the same direction, then it's a definite differential problem.

The problem were the spider gears inside the differential where all chewed up. When that happens the rear wheels which are suppose to spin at different speeds around corners start locking up, sometimes you can hear "chirping" as one of the wheels stick to the pavement, thats why you feel like the brakes are sticking.

Many people recommend to replace the entire differential (from a junkyard) I was quoted 300 dollars plus 200 dollars for labor. I decided to open up the differential and replaced the spider gears (80 dollars) and also the carrier (90 dollars off ebay). As long as you don't replace the ring/pinion which require special measurements its a somewhat easy job. The hard part is identifying what differential you have open/limited slip what size differential. 

If the differential was previously replaced it might not be the same year model or vehicle that was installed. The differential I had was a gov lock version (which was not the astrovans original differential, it was a truck differential), they have a lot of little gears which broke off and got caught on the spider gears damaging them, Ford has something called limited slip differential.  If its your differential, it is not really an expensive repair, once fix you be back on the road, I fix mine 2 years ago and haven't had any more problems. My van is a 1986, I'm going to keep driving it until i can't fix it anymore.

 

[eDJ_]

At that age a parking brake may not be disengaging fully.  Also,  if the brake springs in the rear brakes are original,  they may have lost their tension to disengage.  Again,  the hydraulic wheel cylinders in the rear brakes may be sticking. 

Here is what is inside the Rear Brakes

Spring #3 pulls the retracts the brake shoes when you take your foot off the brake pedal.

When you press the brake pedal the hydraulic cylinder #1 expands the brake shoes to rub against the
brake drum to stop you.

Not shown is the emergency brake cable which has it's own spring to retract it when the brake is released.

Inside the wheel cylinder #1 there are two pistons which may tend to stick if the vehicle isn't driven regularly.
Thus the brakes may drag/squeal etc. 

#6 are the brake shoe retainer clips and these tend to rust and break leaving the brake shoe to flop around
and cause mayhem. 

I have had older cars brought to me with customers in a panic.  They would tell me that they hit a small pothole and the rear wheel locked up.  It was because the springs were weak and the shock of the bump threw the shoe against the turning brake drum and lock up.  (as if he had pushed the brake pedal....but the brake wouldn't release)  If the brakes don't lock up they may pulse...as mentioned in #6 failure.

I'm not saying that it isn't a Transmission issue,  but if the Vehicle is parked more than driven and the brakes
have had the original springs/clips reused then I'd check that out.  You would be amazed at the difference it makes after replacing those worn out things.   

This vehicle is 41 years old now at least.   I don't know if it's been driven much lately but driving it around some if it hasn't would limber it up some which should be done before trying to sell it.

 

[jonsun]

because it's a hightop I would err on the side of keeping it or at least not scrapping it. Provided this fix is cheap junk yard stuff. anything you buy at the price point is probably going to need money it too.

 

[MrNoodly]

...1976 Ford E250 High Top Camper Van with 40K on the odometer- clearly it was 140K.

More likely 240K or even 340K unless it had only been used for occasional camping trips for 40 years.

 

[judykazooty]

Wow you guys are great! I am having a better day already. Much more hopefu. I will respond to your posts individually now- but Thank you all for you wisdom and insight. Should know more on Monday. Judy

 

[judykazooty]

The rear brake linings on one of the wheels may be worn down to the metal and is seizing. If you can still drive it, after a ways stop and feel the wheels on each side. If one is hot, it's the culprit. Should smell pretty bad too.

Try to find someone who can tow your trailer to the FS job for a reasonable fee. I guess then you wouldn't have a vehicle to go shopping unless the FS provides one?  Maybe find a cheap car for transpo while you're working? 

It's hard to say on an old vehicle whether to fix or not. If you only have $3k, you could have just as much or more trouble with another van. Just need to see what the mechanic says.

Good luck

Tanks slow2day- I am way calmer today- less panicky. Monday is coming soon and my mechanic should have some info for me so I can better make a decision. Judy

 

[judykazooty]

Could very well be a rear brake locking up like slow2day said.  I had one lock up recently but it released and I haven't looked into it yet.  

I would say wait on your mechanic then you will have more information to make a decision with.

Monday is almost here. He's good and he is easy on the pocket book. Thanks for the input. Judy

 

[judykazooty]

If it's the transmission or the rear differential the vehicle is essentially totaled since the value is so low. ...

Personally, I'd sell the trailer and take all the vandwelling goodies out of the old girl and put them into whatever you can find that fits your needs/budget...

You mentioned a $3,000 figure. Is that with or without the sale of the camper? Good vans can be found for that budget either way. Or a replacement tow vehicle if that is the route you choose.

As for the vandwelling gear you already have ... You probably wont get nearly the money out you have in. It would be better to retain it if possible.

Thanks Gideon33w- much appreciate your response. I think there is good value in the van still if it is running well (barring transmission news).  Taking the "goodies" and putting them into the next vehicle might make good sense. Yeah, the 3000 includes 2000 hopefully from the sale of the trailer. Not alot to work with. Sell the van as well and there are more options. We'll see what the news is on Monday. Hoping for brakes. Judy

 

[Almost There]

If you do decide to scrap the van, that high top is amongst the goodies that you need to salvage especially if it's the 24" high top that actually gives you standing height.

It's fairly easy to move the high top from the 'donor van' to a new one even if it's not an exact fit...as long as it's not longer or wider than the recipient van.

Stateside a new high top is around $3,200, here in Canada it's worth more than my van!

 

[rvpopeye]

Good advice AT/Lady A !

I'll add this.
If you have been repairing and keeping up with maintenance items like tires,shocks,(brakes) and upgrades like oil coolers , roof vents , solar .

I might look at a repair or replace as another item crossed off the list of things not done to a vehicle that is just getting more reliable for a longer time......

Getting another rig would be starting from the beginning as to what will or might need attention.

The known vs the unknown.

 

[user 423]

GoFundMe!!!

 

[judykazooty]

start by making sure the e brake is disengaged

a vehicle is dead when it is rusted out or damaged,you should be able to find 70's ford parts pretty easy and cheap
does the engine run good? no smoke or knocks?

is all you want is a tow vehicle a truck would be best,a high top van is a valuable thing and if running good should get you a pretty penny

Thanks Gary68- It runs quiet, no knocks, smoke so far, no major issues. Sounds like a younger 8 cyl sedan. We lost power once in the middle of nowhere, had enough time to let it come to a rest on the shoulder-  took the flat bed tow truck a while to get to us. 100 degree mid-day, 2 women and 2 dogs- he dropped the van at the mechanic, (Randy Smith-Randy's Service in Elephant Butte, NM)- he asked me to start it up. I did. Randy said, "I dont hear a fuel pump." Sure enough, he followed the wires and there was one old wire with a spade end and another old bare wire hanging next to it. "I think we can do better than this." It was less than 4 minutes, fuel pump back in business, and he sent us on our way. In my next life, I want to be an auto mechanic. Trying to think of these issues as just another adventure.
I agree there is good value in this vehicle - I said to Connie last night, tomorrow is a new day and we get a chance to start again fresh. Today is a better day. Nice talking with you Gary68

 

[rvpopeye]

Well , then I would wait to see what the brake check turns up before worrying any more about it.

 

[judykazooty]

when the differential on my astrovan started going bad, thats a symptom I had, I felt like my front brakes where locking up and then releasing. I never suspected it was the rear differential....

I took it to a brake shop and they couldnt find anything wrong with my front brakes, as I was leaving they heard my van chirping and decided to raise the rearend, when they spun one of the wheels it wasnt spinning freely. As you spin one tire forward the opposite tire should spin in reverse without sticking. If both wheels spin in the same direction, then it's a definite differential problem...

The problem were the spider gears inside the differential where all chewed up. When that happens the rear wheels which are suppose to spin at different speeds around corners start locking up, sometimes you can hear "chirping" as one of the wheels stick to the pavement, thats why you feel like the brakes are sticking.

If its your differential, it is not really an expensive repair, once fix you be back on the road, I fix mine 2 years ago and haven't had any more problems. My van is a 1986, I'm going to keep driving it until i can't fix it anymore.

Thanks jonyjoe303- I am hoping it isn' the differential, but you sure gave me a lot of good information here. I wish I had your confidence and experience and could do the repairs myself. I really love the van and if we treat it right, we may just be fine. Be well, Judy