The only stove you'll ever need

[Ballenxj]

12 minutes into the video

Where she talks about her gimballed alcohol stove but doesn't really show it.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Maybe I'm dense but I don't see the point you are trying to make.  Bob is interviewing a woman who lives in her SUV and uses denatured alcohol for cooking and heat.  What am I missing?

It doesn't address the statement you made:

Alcohol soda cans are another way to cook . . .
Hotter, cheaper, lighter than propane or 12V,

She is using an expensive stove made for boats.  It is not a soda can stove.
Ethanol has the lowest burning temperature of the commonly used stove fuels.
Ethanol can be cheaper (if you use denatured alcohol with associated health risks) or expensive (if you use pure ethanol).
Ethanol provides the least BTUs per pound of the listed fuels.

 -- Spiff

 

[Boyntonstu]

Maybe I'm dense but I don't see the point you are trying to make.  Bob is interviewing a woman who lives in her SUV and uses denatured alcohol for cooking and heat.  What am I missing?

It doesn't address the statement you made:

She is using an expensive stove made for boats.  It is not a soda can stove.
Ethanol has the lowest burning temperature of the commonly used stove fuels.
Ethanol can be cheaper (if you use denatured alcohol with associated health risks) or expensive (if you use pure ethanol).
Ethanol provides the least BTUs per pound of the listed fuels.

 -- Spiff

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Alcohol soda cans are another way to cook . . .[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Hotter, cheaper, lighter than propane or 12V[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I stand corrected:  Not as hot as propane but hot enough.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Cheaper, lighter than propane or 12V[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Cost about $2.80 per gallon.[/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"Alcohol soda cans" not an expensive marine stove.[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]I find this computation interesting:[/font][/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]If you're out in the backcountry for an extended amount of time, the starting weight for an alcohol stove and fuel may be heavier, but after a few days of use, the whole system may actually weigh less. Denatured alcohol doesn't burn as efficiently, so you burn it up much more quickly than you would using other fuels. By the time you hike out back into civilization, the combined stove and fuel weight will definitely be lighter than a canister or white gas stove.
When I hike, I consider a unit of measurement called weight-distance. Multiply the weight times the distance to get weight-distance. If you carry one ounce for one mile, that's one ounce-mile. If you carry one ounce for 20 miles, that's 20 ounce-miles. If you carry 20 ounces one mile, that's also 20 ounce-miles. Why is this important? Because I think that's the fairest way to determine if your soda can stove is lighter than other alternatives. I'll readily admit that I totally made up this unit of measurement, but it's fair representation of comparing different systems with each other and can be used for any sort of system—not just for stoves and fuel.
Metric system: If you live in some other part of the world than the United States, you probably think in grams and kilometers. It's entirely valid to use "gram-kilometer" or "kilogram-kilometer" (kg-km) units rather than "ounce-miles." Use whatever system of units works best for you!
Let's say you use, on average, one ounce of denatured alcohol each night for dinner with your stove. If you go out for six days (five nights), you need to start with 5oz of fuel. My cookset weighs in at 9oz, so for me, my starting weight in this scenario would be 14oz on Day 1. Calculate the weight-distance for each day and add them together to get the total weight-miles:
Day 1 =  14 * 10 = 140
Day 2 =  13 * 10 = 130
Day 3 =  12 * 10 = 120
Day 4 =  11 * 10 = 110
Day 5 =  10 * 10 = 100
Day 6 =   9 * 10 =  90
                 --------
                = 690 oz-miles (or 43.1 lb-miles)
This is a very contrived example. Most people don't hike exactly ten miles each day, nor do they use exactly one ounce of denatured alcohol each night for dinner. This is just an example of how to do such a calculation, but this type of calculation is necessary if you truly want to know which cookset system is the lightest. I also believe it's important to consider the weight of your entire cook system—not just the weight of the fuel, but also the weight of your stove, pot support, windscreen and other cooking accessories.
So ignore what other people have to say about the weight of their systems or how it compares to an alcohol stove. Only you can run these kind of calculations for yourself—assuming you feel it's even worth the effort. Perhaps someone with a canister stove feels my 690 oz-miles (or 43.1 lb-miles) for a six day outing is too heavy, and frankly, when it's written like that, it does sound heavy—it requires the same amount as effort as carrying 43.1 pounds one full mile—but it's still lighter than alternatives I've tried.
If saving as much weight as possible from your back is the ultimate goal, consider not using a stove at all. My cookset weighs in at 9 ounces, which sounds light, until you consider that a thru-hike of the 2,650-mile PCT means carrying it requires 23,850 oz-miles (1,490.6 lb-miles). Would you carry 1,490.6 pounds across one mile of rugged terrain? Then why would you use the same energy to lug 9 ounces over a rugged 2,650 miles? It adds up! And this calculation doesn't even include the weight of the fuel which is not trivial, but when you're in the backcountry, those hot meals can be worth the trouble. =)
So if you're comparing the weight of different cooking systems, figure out the weight-distance for each of them. That's the only way to make an apples-to-apples comparison of different systems, and the calculations must fit your situation to be valid. As a general rule of thumb, you'll find the numbers work out particularly well if you're hiking alone (or maybe with one other companion), don't do a lot of cooking, don't have to melt snow for water and you tend to cover big miles between resupply points.[/font]

[/font][/font]

 

[highdesertranger]

where do you get alcohol for 2.80 a gallon. I have a propane stove that will melt a soda can to nothing in about a minute. a older Coleman white gas stove will melt a soda can in about 30 seconds. if you put a lit charcoal briquette in a soda can it will melt it. so I don't see how these homemade alcohol stoves burn all that hot. it would seem to be more lie a can of Sterno, which is jelled alcohol. . highdesertranger

 

[Boyntonstu]

where do you get alcohol for 2.80 a gallon.  I have a propane stove that will melt a soda can to nothing in about a minute.  a older Coleman white gas stove will melt a soda can in about 30 seconds.  if you put a lit charcoal briquette in a soda can it will melt it.  so I don't see how these homemade alcohol stoves burn all that hot. it would seem to be more lie a can of Sterno,  which is jelled alcohol. .   highdesertranger

Prices have gone up since I looked but you can buy a quart at Walmart.

[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Aluminium[size=small]/ Melting point  [/font][/size][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]1,221°F[/font]

[font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]Too Hot to Handle. The peak flame temperature of ethanol is [/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]1,920 degrees Celsius [/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]([/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]3,488 degrees Fahrenheit[/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]), while the peak flame temperature of methanol is [/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]1,870 degrees Celsius[/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] ([/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]3,398 degrees Fahrenheit[/font][font=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]).[/font]

---

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]From the Web in 2012:[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]"I spent five months last year living aboard and cooking with my non-pressurized alcohol stove. I loved the simplicity of it. No worries about leaking valves, regulators, or hoses snaking through my cabinets. Boiling a quart of water took a few minutes longer than with propane but so what? 

No, alcohol is not as cost effective as propane but I can buy a years supply of alcohol for the cost of the equipment needed for propane and I don't need specialized compartments for fuel storage. I know propane explosions are rare, but with alcohol, I never, not even once, worried that leaking fuel was collecting in my bilge and plotting to blow my ass to smithereens."[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]After all consideration, I would agree with you and choose propane for Vans.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Thanks for sharing!  [/font]

 

[Baloo]

I have been using my two burner pressurized denatured alcohol stove for years now. Other than an occasional cleaning, it is very reliable and the fuel can be bought anywhere. No it is not as fast as other fuels to cook with, but it is safe and simple. Plus it just looks cool...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Boyntonstu]

I have been using my two burner pressurized denatured alcohol stove for years now. Other than an occasional cleaning, it is very reliable and the fuel can be bought anywhere.  No it is not as fast as other fuels to cook with, but it is safe and simple. Plus it just looks cool...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How much is the alcohol?  

Or, does it matter because of the quantity involved?

 

[highdesertranger]

yes I wasn't talking about real alcohol stoves. pressurized ones work good. but alcohol doesn't have the BTU's per whatever as other common stove fuels. denatured alcohol runs about 7-8 bucks a quart that's about 30 bucks a gallon. now I am sure there are places to find it cheaper but not 2.80 a gallon. highdesertranger

 

[jonyjoe303]

this is a better picture of the blackstone that shows its true size. When I saw the original picture, to me it looked like single burner type portable stove. Its a full size cook entire breakfast griddle that runs on the same propane my mr. heater uses. I like it. And it looks easy to keep clean.

 

[John61CT]

Would be great if the griddle removed to reveal a big cahuna ring for a big pot.

With add-on telescoping legs for outside.

Not asking for much eh?

 

[Ballenxj]

Not asking for much eh?

 Not at all.   Seriously, you could probably rig up a set of legs.

 

[John61CT]

Here we go, 60K BTU should get the party started

http://www.ebay.com/itm/172739559423

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261621407061

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111628573926

BBQ too! http://www.ebay.com/itm/111597605449

 

[CityWoman]

I have been using my two burner pressurized denatured alcohol stove for years now . . .

Thanks, Baloo, for your post. Your "two burner pressurized denatured alcohol stove" does look pretty cool. However, all the comments about alcohol have me confused. I was convinced that is what I want when I first read some guy's blog about his getting an alcohol single-burner thingy for his van. Then I read a little bit here and there about those gimballed marine stoves, Something 5000, that use alcohol. Seeing that they are used in close quarters like small boat galleys, I liked what I read.

Now here in this thread there's mention of gelled alcohol, pressurized alcohol, the expense of ethanol, the dangers of denatured alcohol... I didn't know there are so many kinds of alcohol that can be used for cooking, or so many different kinds of little stoves. And, as with most technology or equipment, everyone has their preferences and some folks will just pooh-pooh anything that isn't what they got. That happens everywhere people have opinions, of course. As a total newbie to this sort of stuff, it is so hard (and somewhat discouraging) to constantly come up against so many varying viewpoints on every small factor involved with living in a vehicle, that I wonder how I will ever figure out what equipment would sit right with me and how to plan for what I'll need. This is not a criticism of anyone - I just want to say that I am pretty confused about these things now.

My username will hopefully be a big clue that I am not an outdoorsy camping sort of gal. Only went camping twice in my life (and never learned anything from either trip), have never been hiking or backpacking, and when I'll be on the road, I don't intend to go boondocking far from any town. I will also want to occasionally stay in different types of lodging from time to time. And, while I will need a stove of some sort, I know I don't want to carry propane with me.

What I am now wondering is this: where is a good unbiased reference/resource to learn about the different kinds of alcohol or other stuff that can be used for fuel, and what kind of stoves there are?

 

[highdesertranger]

IMO there is nothing wrong with alcohol stoves. if you understand that they are not vey economical and indoors you need to burn the correct fuel. there is another thread about alcohol as fuel here,

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26127&page=3

on post number 27 I posted some links to info on alcohol as fuel. they seem to be unbiased. keep in mind any fuel is dangerous more so in a confined space. highdesertranger

 

[WriterMs]

CityWoman,
You have not mentioned how you plan to heat your space on cold nights? Most of us travel to places where we may get enough cold nights (or days) to need some sort of heat source. Unless you are going to be plugged in at campgrounds all of the time, the most common heat source is propane. (Most of us love our Mr. Heater Buddy)

So my point is that if you are going to be outside of a tropical area in your travels, you may need to carry propane at least some of the time anyway.. for heat.

I would also pose this question to you: how much cooking do you do? Do you like to make a real meal from scratch? Are you going to have a couple of pots of something going every day? Or, if you are like me, do you only need to heat up a can of soup or boil enough water to make ramen noodles and throw in some veggies?

I use propane for heat and can use it with my Coleman single burner. But I found out right away that I didn't want to drag out that heavy burner from it's bottom drawer and attach the propane just to heat up some water. So I went simple for most days and use a simple "stove" that is for backpacking and use with a fuel tab. One tab and I'm good. My old van is leaky enough with ventilation that the fumes are not a problem.

So my further point is to consider how much heat you need and for how long based on what you cook. And what you will heat your rig with.

And also consider that you are maybe worrying a bit too much on the safety considering as others have pointed out, hundreds of thousands of folks worldwide use propane every day and very very very few will ever have a fireball. If it still bothers you, then maybe a fuel like alcohol which can catch fire and spread but won't "explode" (correct me if I'm wrong here other folks!!!) is best for you?

 

[CityWoman]

CityWoman, You have not mentioned how you plan to heat your space on cold nights? . . . . you may need to carry propane at least some of the time anyway.. for heat.

Not sure yet. Still researching, and that will depend on what kind of vehicle I get. But no propane for me.

I would also pose this question to you: how much cooking do you do? Do you like to make a real meal from scratch? Are you going to have a couple of pots of something going every day? Or, if you are like me, do you only need to heat up a can of soup or boil enough water to make ramen noodles and throw in some veggies?

Some simple cooking, some buying of prepared foods, some dining out. I don't need a hot meal every day.

And also consider that you are maybe worrying a bit too much on the safety considering as others have pointed out, hundreds of thousands of folks worldwide use propane every day and very very very few will ever have a fireball.

Whether or not someone else considers my concerns and level of comfort to be "worrying too much" is irrelevant to me. From my having read a bunch of nomad blogs, I know I am not alone in my desire not to carry propane with me -- but even if that makes me an oddball, I don't care. I have to honor whatever it is that feels right FOR ME if/when I embark on a nomadic lifestyle. We each have to live with the choices we make and determine what level of comfort or discomfort is acceptable to us, and that's all that matters.

 

[John61CT]

I think quite irrational but then we all have our quirks.

Then space and/or water heating can be done using your propulsion fuel.

Cooking off butane, or alcohol I s'pose assuming in the living space, white gas or wood/charcoal if outdoors.

 

[CityWoman]

IMO there is nothing wrong with alcohol stoves. if you understand that they are not vey economical and indoors you need to burn the correct fuel. there is another thread about alcohol as fuel here,

https://vanlivingforum.com/showthread.php?tid=26127&page=3

on post number 27 I posted some links to info on alcohol as fuel. they seem to be unbiased. keep in mind any fuel is dangerous more so in a confined space. highdesertranger

Just wanted to come back to this thread to say Thank You for the link, HDR. I realized I forgot to do that. I will check it out as soon as I have a chance.