Ten pages from front. Ten pages from rear. Solar building

[regis101]

Ive done a shipload of reading , here, and thru links. My brain hurts. And the number of products exhibited from the various vendors doesn't help.

I choose not to purchase a ( kit ) since I don't like their list of components for my needs.

Here is what I think I want. Simple system. Load calc accounted for with regards to the future.

200 watts. One 100w panel permanently mounted and the other wired in as portable.
3 stage dual battery controller, for future expansion , that will supply one, for now, ~125aH AGM batt will most likely be hidden from view.
Optional remote monitor is required.

Seeking parts list, corrections, directions, or a face slap to calm down.

One of my inquiries is wire conductor size with regards to voltage drop throughout the system. Most schematics I have viewed tend to be on the small side of AWG, imo. I don't know if a typical 30a controller will accept a 8 AWG or 6 AWG into its lug(s) , or if it's even needed.

'lil help to get on track? Thanks

 

[jonyjoe303]

For wire size on my 240 watt panel I use 10 gauge. I use that for the past 4 years. Just make sure you get good quality wire, some wires might say they are 10 gauge but they are not. Even 12 gauge will work as long as the lengths arent too long less than 10 feet. My panel is 5 feet from the controller. Also since the voltage from the panel will be higher 20 volts or higher voltage drop wont be a big issue. From controller to battery , I try to use 8 gauge if I can get it to fit in the controller, but I have also use 10 gauge and as low as 12 gauge, The distance from controller to battery is also less than 5 feet. On the controllers I have had 10 gauge was the largest size you can use, 8 gauge sometimes you can force it in there.

From the battery out, thats when you need thicker gauges, but even then I use 10 gauge since I wont use more than 30 amps. But if you have a huge inverter, then you need 6 gauge or lower and keep distance short.

A 100 watt panel (20 volt) will give you a max of 5 amps at mid day, your best bet is to get 2x 10 amp pwm solar controllers (and just connect each panel seperately to the battery at the same time when needed) that way you get 10 amps total. If you try to connect both panels together then to one pwm controller your only going to get 5 amps. But if you have one (more expensive) 20 amp mppt controller, then you can connect both panels in series and get 10 amps. Mppt only produce more amps on high voltage 30+ volt panels, or on two low voltage panels connected in series (thus increasing the voltage of the panels 2x20 volts = 40 volts).

One thing you don't mention is connectors, I highly recommend the xt60, its easy to solder and you can get 10 pairs for less than 10 dollars, they handle 60 amps, easy to connect/disconnect, and no way to connect backwards. Its all I use.


For remote meter I use "dc battery wireless 120v 30a lcd voltage current combo meter" they are less than 25 dollars, it measures volts/amps , and also can do overvoltage/undervoltage protection. I only got this because I needed overvoltage protection for my lithium. 


Another led meter I use connected between the controller and battery is "90 volt 30 amp combo meter" this isnt wireless but its always connected and easy to read from a distance. cost about 20 dollars. If your controller is somewhere you can see, this is all you need.


No need to spend alot on controllers, 10 amp pwm controllers you can find for less than 20. If you want mppt, you can get an ecoworthy 20 amp for 100 dollars, I've had mine almost 4 years. Mppt will work on a 100 watt panel but won't increase the amps, you still get 5 amps, but at least you can upgrade later.

My only recommendation is if you got the room just get a single large 200 watt or bigger panel. I was able to fit a 240 watt panel (36 volt) on my small astrovan. With mppt I can get up to 15 amps. I only paid 200 dollars for it. You won't regret having a large panel especially in bad weather.

 

[regis101]

Wow. Thanks. A plethora of info. And thanks for being easy on me. The wine googles were getting thick. I grew tired from research overload.

My thought with connectors and using one panel as perm and the second as portable is/was with the use of the MC4 multi branch connector. Thought was that if I'm parked in the shade then I could string out some cable to a sunny spot and plug in the second panel if needed. I'd even entertain having the second set of panel wires join with a bulkhead type connection on the van's body or something. Or just hang near the rear where the trailer light plug cord is located.

Thanks again for the info. You've pretty much put things into a nutshell for me and hopefully a few others.

~RL

 

[LoupGarou]

During the planning stage, a pad of paper and a pencil are your friend.

Start by downloading any and all data sheets for the major components your considering to use and build a top level block diagram. Using the data sheets, you can determine what it takes to physically connect those pieces together. Once its down on paper, source your parts and start the build.

There's a saying, "Plan your work, then work the plan".

BlueSea is a great source for electrical parts. The downloaded catalog is definitely a great reference. There are Tech Tips and Application Diagrams scattered though out the pages.

 

[jimindenver]

You can hook multiple panels up in a PWM system as long as you hook them up parallel instead of series. This Morningstar sunsaver duo with remote panel will handle 200 watts and take care of both batteries. I only use the link as reference, you might find a better price elsewhere.

http://www.solarpanelstore.com/sola...fdom=adwords&gclid=CJmoqMbOg9QCFce2wAodXOwCKg

 

[IGBT]

You can hook multiple panels up in a PWM system as long as you hook them up parallel instead of series. This Morningstar sunsaver duo with remote panel will handle 200 watts and take care of both batteries. I only use the link as reference, you might find a better price elsewhere.

http://www.solarpanelstore.com/sola...fdom=adwords&gclid=CJmoqMbOg9QCFce2wAodXOwCKg

Midnite has also come out with a PWM controller called the Brat.

12V or 24V battery system - selectable
Rain proof, sealed with no fans
temp compensated charging
Max PV input 60V, max output 30 amps

$125

I am probably going to get one to add some additional capacity to our system via the garage pod.   Our main living pod uses a Midnite Classic 150 and I have been very happy with it.

 

[John61CT]

Ability to use Whizbang Jr is worth a lot IMO

 

[user 37446]

Hmm, our normal solar guru's are taking their time in responding. You've gotten good input. jimindenver does a lot with solar, maybe pm him. 

You said "[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]200 watts. One 100w panel permanently mounted and the other wired in as portable".  Is it space limitations or do you want to sometimes park in the shade yet sill get some production? [/font]

[font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Otherwise just save a lot of headache and get a Renogy 200 kit. Maybe not the best "piecemeal" components but certainly tried and true... Upgrade the controller to a digital readout MPPT and then learn from it. That's a possibility.  If you are remoting 25 feet or more than yes, better go at least 8 gauge, maybe 6. The controller reviews should tell you what size wire they accept.[/font]

 

[regis101]

Prolly for the best that I don't get pummeled  from the top down.  Sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous.

Yeah.  My thought was that one panel is permanently attached and keeping a constant check on the battery(ies).  Finding shade to  dwell is a bonus.  And if for some reason I needed that extra boost then string out some cable and a second panel.  Keeping with the 1:1 ratio but having the 2:1 for extended stays or help other people.

I like to live by the , "Buy once.  Cry once.", creed.  Not opposed to purchasing separately.    Not opposed to overkill.

My head tells my to get a decent MPPT with remote read-out screen.  The battery and the charger will want to live under the bench seat/bed.  I was hoping for a dual battery charger to allow two systems or again, to help maybe charge others.

Hard part is that there are soooo many vendor choices now.  I'm sure if I was to pick up one of the 200w Renogy kits and even purchase it through Amazon to help Bob out, I'd be a happy camper.  

So anyway, guys.  Thanks for the feedback.  Everyone gave good info and provided good experiences.  i don't want this to be a never ending thread.  We have 84+ pages already.  

One question I have about charger / controllers.  As a rule of thumb, Does one keep the panels in parallel with PWM and series with MPPT?  

The PWM's should allow higher voltage than 12, since the battery wants ~14.4 or more at times?  
The MPPT's seem to be able to cater to a wide variety of situations.  

I'm not in any hurry.  When the time is right it will be time.  
Thanks again,
~RL

 

[John61CT]

Say you buy the Victron 100/50 MPPT, first is Volts, do not exceed! Second is amps, can go over a bit.

Say panels are 19V and a bit over 5A. You can string five panels in series and that keeps you under 100V. Two of those strings paralleled makes around 50A, so ten panels altogether.

PWM you straight up waste any voltage over your target, so 17 or 18V panels, no serialing.

 

[jimindenver]

With two panels you would want them in series and functioning alike, that's going to be pretty hard with one as a portable. MPPT thrives with excess voltage and going parallel with 12v panels doesn't leave much excess for it to work with. It would be a expensive headache with little to gain.

The duo part of the controller I posted is that it is meant to handle two separate batteries. With the panels ran parallel it would combine the amps each panel produces even if one is producing more than the other. Since it is rated at 25 aps you could add a panel or two later.

 

[regis101]

https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watt-...lt_1&ref-refURL=http://www.cheaprvliving.com/

This a kit via Amazon that raises an eyebrow for me. I like the larger AWG wire size(s) included. I would probably make the panels both portable now I'm thinking. As for having one permanent , on this rig, is prolly not the best option since the roof raises and ends up angled being hinged at the rear. I might be better off using one of the panels to get a grasp on the days needs and be able to attach the second panel along side if needed. Having portable panels seems like more work at first. But I'd be able to take advantage of the east-west placement better. Dunno. Totally new to this.
Thanks for reading

 

[regis101]

Whelp.  After some more and some more reading and the trickle down shake down of all the info into my three remaining brain cells, I did just purchase a kit.  I chose a kit from the Home page via Amazon since it helps Bob in some way.

This is what I picked.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WGW485F/ref=twister_B06XY8RHC7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Coupla reasons I guess.  This will be my first solar experience.  The intended vehicle is the Vanagon and the load calc is low.
I mainly use this as a weekend warrior thing.  Largest draw will be the Max Burton 37 qt freezer.  Prolly add some low wattage interior lighting.  

The vehicle is factory prewired to charge an aux battery albeit piggybacking from the starting battery .  Has a relay so as not to drain the starting battery. Not optimum but it works.   A group 41 is spec'd but NLA in a deep cycle so I have a Duracell SLA 1161 44aH since it fits in the battery box under the drivers seat with some room to spare.  When I outgrow this battery, I will revamp with a Gr 24 or 27 that can be placed under the rear bench seat.

I have many feet of #8 Marine wire, access to proper terminal ends and a proper crimper.  I also have lots of #10 and #12 automotive wire with terminals and crimpers.  

Gotta start somewhere, huh?  I was prepared to jump right in there and head to the top.  But, I'm probably better off with this.  
Thanks for reading

 

[user 37446]

Ok, wait just a minute... Your signature has both a 98' E150 and an 85' Vanagon... Tell you what, if that Vanagon is running I'll take it off your hands just so your signature isn't so, uhh, crowded. Yea, that's it, crowded...

Don't pay any attention to this CarGuru's search on Vanagon values: 

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[regis101]

Its ridiculous I know.  Ours is a Weekender with pop top.  
It's soon to have solar so that'll prolly jack up the value a few more thou.

 

[user 37446]

Ok, sigh,   I'll take the E150 then...  

 

[regis101]

Things are running smoothly.  Got the solar functional today.  I still have some temporary things happening here but it's working.

The Samlex 1215 does what it should.  The Renogy 100 watt with Rover MPPT , ( thanks Bob ), shows me all I need to know.  The two Duracell 55Ah batteries , ( sorry Bob ), were chosen mostly due to location location location in the Van and the weight.  I have proper sized fuses to cover the charger, controller, load, and panel

I picked up a second 100 watt panel to match the first panel and that is still in the works.  My plan is to make the panel(s) portable and yet still be able to latch one onto the front luggage area.  It's strapped on now for testing.  I won't drive that that.  
The bulkhead fitting into the body is a marine 40a unit. All wiring is marine 10 awg due to charger and controller lug size.  

I'm sure that this being my first dabble with power from the Sun, it should treat me well.  Now the real learning begins.

Thanks for everyones help not only with my questions but the questions also answered for others from which I have learned

Peace, ~RL

 

[regis101]

*I picked up a second 100 watt panel*  ( thanks Bob )  Missed that the first time.

 

[highdesertranger]

how's the output on that panel with the strap over it? highdesertranger

 

[regis101]

I'm glad you asked since it is something I need to know.

The controller read 18.6 v and when the one inch strap was removed it still read 18.6
The first picture read 15.3 on the controller.  The second picture read 16.2 with a VOM.  Third picture was 20.8 with a VOM