Tell me what I need!

[akrvbob]

Okay, here's what you need:

1) To use much less power.
2) 600 watts of panels.
3) Morningstar Tristar 60 amp charge controller
4) 8 golf carts.

Start with these four things and then if you just can't live with it add more panels and golf carts.
Bob

 

[akrvbob]

I think I may not have answered an earlier question you had about inverters: why have both a MSW and a PSW?

All inverters have a certain amount of power that they use setting there idle even with nothing plugged into them. PSW inverters do more work so they have more of a draw at idle. Usually at least another half amp an hour more than a MSW, so that means they waste 12 amps a day doing nothing, just turned on. And it can be more.

The great majority of appliances are 100% happy with a MSW so why not save yourself money on the intitial purchase and waste a lot less power by having a MSW? If you have appliances that are touchy and need pure power, get a PSW for them and only for them.

Other than a microwave nothing I've ever owned complained about a MSW so that's what I use 90% of the time.
Bob

 

[kyonu]

Thanks for the information, Bob!

Just to clarify, I am intensely working on shaving off at least 2000 of those needed watts, to again cut my usage in half.

Most of that power listed was when a printer is printing (which, again, is rare, and will be off most of the time) and with a Modem, Router and VPN all working on the backend (which will change when I switch over to mobile internet, which is cheaper), and two LCD monitr's with a laptop docking station and an IP phone.

My current plan is obviously to keep the printer off (saving 25 idle watts, 120 running watts), change out my LCD's to LED (or preferably OLED) to save another 25 or so watts, upgrade my equipment to mobile internet, saving another 15 - 20 watts, and make sure all parasitical draws are eliminated (since I probably have a few.)

On that note, at some point I will be getting an upgraded OLED TV vs my LED currently, and a smaller one at that, which should save me around 60 watts, and cut my misc draw down from 300 to about 150.

With that math, I'm saving 650 watts throughout a regular day, just by doing that. I should be able to cut my lighting down to 450-500 watts after using natural sunlight instead, and also eliminate the coffee maker altogether (if I need coffee, I can devise a solar heater of sorts.) Unfortunately the Blender is a requirement for the lady's meal plan, as is the juicer, so no saving there.

All in all, that should save me around 1000 watts for the day, and then I can cut down that extra 100 watts to around 50 watts by making sure my laptops are always charged, saving me 400 more watts a day, putting me at around 2800 needed a day without the fridge. This I think is a lot more doable, and with a 12v system I think 250ah should cover my needs, so 500ah of battery power which isn't bad at all, cost wise.

Of course I have no experience with solar panels--can you explain how much they fill per hour? Would 600 watts theoretically fill 600 watts per hour?

Also, thanks for the information on branding! I'm doing so research on those units now.

EDIT: Would you recommend a MPPT charge controller?

 

[TucsonAZ]

A chest freezer conversion, even if you use a larger chest freezer or run two of them, one as a fridge the other as a freezer will yield you some large savings, I've run the numbers on this many times, they're much better in terms of energy use, wrapping it may not help as much as you would hope.

To answer your question about refilling your battery bank and let's say you're able to cut your usage down to 5,000 watts a day. You would need a about a 900ah battery bank, you can make that up any way you choose, I would do whatever needed to firstly make sure you have as few parallel connections as humanly possible and secondly go with AT least a 24v battery bank, don't even think about 12v with that size. Now keep in mind, this leave you no room for a cloudy day, you're storing just what you need only for a single day.

To refill that bank you will need to produce 5,000 watts of solar per you can look at a map for peak solar hours based on the area you're in. You will take a loss at the inverter, the panels, wall warts and so account for those loses in your numbers but if you're getting 3 peak hours of sun in the winter you will need roughly 2,500 watts of panels.

The mppt and battery monitor is mandatory on a system this size, I didn't want to suck it up and pay the money but bought the MidNite Classic 150.

You don't mention your budget but I can tell you for fact you're going to run out of roof space long before you have enough power to meet your needs. Many people telling you that you can get by with less are never fully charging their batteries and don't understand how the system works to properly care for it.

 

[kyonu]

I noted previously that my combined wattage will be pulled down to about 2800 per day, no longer 5000 per day. How many panels/watts of solar will I need for that much? (Doubling that equal 5600 total per day, or just under 500ah.)

 

[TucsonAZ]

I noted previously that my combined wattage will be pulled down to about 2800 per day, no longer 5000 per day. How many panels/watts of solar will I need for that much? (Doubling that equal 5600 total per day, or just under 500ah.)

That's about what I'm sized for and I have 1,380 watts but only because it was all I could fit on my roof. The price difference between say 1,500 watts and 2,000 is really just the cost of the panels as all of the other equipment you need will be the same.

 

[highdesertranger]

kyonu is that 2800 watts at 120v or 12v? if it is at 120v that is like 28,000 watts at 12v. not to mention losses. highdesertranger

 

[kyonu]

kyonu is that 2800 watts at 120v or 12v? if it is at 120v that is like 28,000 watts at 12v. not to mention losses. highdesertranger

12v.

 

[highdesertranger]

wow, cool. yeah I wasn't sure on that. 2800 watts @ 12v is still quite a lot. keep us posted on how you do this. highdesertranger

 

[TucsonAZ]

kyonu is that 2800 watts at 120v or 12v? if it is at 120v that is like 28,000 watts at 12v. not to mention losses. highdesertranger

2,800 watts is the same no matter what the voltage is, if you're consuming 2,800 watts it could be any combination of voltages and it wouldn't change the watts.

 

[Zil]

Many of your questions are about solar. This guy has information for you-- http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

 

[VJG1977]

That's about what I'm sized for and I have 1,380 watts but only because it was all I could fit on my roof. The price difference between say 1,500 watts and 2,000 is really just the cost of the panels as all of the other equipment you need will be the same.

I have been looking into how practical it would be to stack 2 panels, one above the other. The upper panel would be mounted on heavy duty full length draw slides. While the van is moving the upper panels would be supplying power to the house batteries. When parked the upper panel could slide out and lock in place to expose the lower panel.
I am also looking into high output alternators and adding more than one alternator on the van engine. I saw some alternators with 300 and 400 amp outputs some rated at 200 amps at idle. One picture showed 4 alternators mounted.

 

[SternWake]

How much do I need?

Well nothing short of this:

I just need to figure out a way to put it on my roof.

Maybe I can get away with one of these though:

But perhaps if I have 2x this amount of ballast I can get by:

And of course I will need at least this much Solar and on trackers to properly recharge them along with the perfect weather 365 days a year.

I will make no concessions to electrical efficiency!

Heck, I forgot about the need for a washer and dryer too, Better double the above requirements.

 

[kyonu]

Don't think I need that anymore, Stern. But thanks for the chuckle.

Right now, I'm 99% certain I can get away with 500ah of batteries (using only 250ah) and have Propane for the heavy lifting. A single 3000 watt generator (maybe even 2000 watt) will supply the extra demand if needed, and up to 1000 watts solar (being a Class A I have the same on the roof) to keep them charged throughout the day.

ATM I am just needing brand names, which Bob is helping me with, and technical knowledge. I can pay for someone to help me install if it need be.

 

[akrvbob]

Simple:

2 315 watt Kyocera Panels (or 3 240 watt panels)
1 Morningstar Tristar 60 amp controller
8 Trojan T105 RE batteries

The most important ingredient: Power conservation!
Bob

 

[TucsonAZ]

Simple:

2 315 watt Kyocera Panels (or 3 240 watt panels)
1 Morningstar Tristar 60 amp controller
8 Trojan T105 RE batteries

The most important ingredient: Power conservation!
Bob

I don't think a blanket statement like that works without first knowing where he lives, how many panels he can mount, how long his wire runs are and so on. Also, are you talking about the TS-60 or the TS-MPPT-60, if you're talking about the TS-60 that doesn't future proof the system and it's a PWM with grid tie panels so that isn't even an option.

If you're talking about the MPPT there are certainly far, far better choices out there (now anyway) for that kind of money including the Midnite Kid and Classic.

I'm not trying to nit pick your wisdom or advise just offering another perspective for the op.

 

[kyonu]

I asked earlier about MPPT, and according to almost all sites, MPPT is required to get more use out of panels. Is there a specific MPPT brand charge controller I should be looking at? Will also try out the MSW inverter instead of PSW to see how it works--I don't have anything too demanding that requires PSW that I'm aware of.

Definitely looking at getting the Trojan batteries, Amazon has good deals on them and has good reviews as well.

As for the Kyocera panels, what makes the brand good?

Not trying to poke at your choices, I actually have them written down on my spreadsheet--just trying to gather as much info as I can! Saw some good deals on Kyocera panels, so will probably stick with them regardless!

@Tuscan: I currently reside in Middle-west TX so I have plenty of sunlight. I do plan on marching my fancy a$$ up to Colorado as soon as I can, though, because of the great temperature change and the glorious views.

 

[TucsonAZ]

I asked earlier about MPPT, and according to almost all sites, MPPT is required to get more use out of panels. Is there a specific MPPT brand charge controller I should be looking at? Will also try out the MSW inverter instead of PSW to see how it works--I don't have anything too demanding that requires PSW that I'm aware of.

Definitely looking at getting the Trojan batteries, Amazon has good deals on them and has good reviews as well.

As for the Kyocera panels, what makes the brand good?

Not trying to poke at your choices, I actually have them written down on my spreadsheet--just trying to gather as much info as I can! Saw some good deals on Kyocera panels, so will probably stick with them regardless!

@Tuscan: I currently reside in Middle-west TX so I have plenty of sunlight. I do plan on marching my fancy a$$ up to Colorado as soon as I can, though, because of the great temperature change and the glorious views.

There is often a balance of cost versus efficiency, avoid square wave and modified square wave and stick with sine wave, you will be thankful you did and will find you're using far more power with the modified square wave and you'll have happier appliances. I can post youtube videos if you so desire but you're safe to trust me on this one as I really researched it in depth!

Get the lowest cost per watt, the end, don't worry about anything else like brand, I managed to get Solarworld panels for $0.69 a watt, call around locally, you'll find a deal.

For a lower cost MPPT I would highly, highly recommend Rouge if that charge controller fits your needs, he's a little guy, local to the US, great product, amazing customer service and support, if you have an issue, you will get the guy that made and designed it on the phone. You get an amazing deal with him because he's priced to compete with far lower quality products.

For a higher cost (where Rouge leaves off) look at Midnite, the Kid or the Classic will work.

You need MPPT for 24v panels and they're about half the price of 12v panels so it's well worth it, they're also far more efficient you can grow into them and they save you money in potentially being able to use smaller wiring due to the higher voltages.

 

[kyonu]

Is a Modified Square Wave different than Modified Sine Wave? According to Bob, who uses Modified Sine Wave, he says it leeches less power from the batteries, and gives you a decent enough power stream, where Pure Sine Wave uses more power for cleaner energy. If my budget allows (all depending on the specific RV I get), I'd prefer to get the least hassle product available, which so far sounds like Modified Sine Wave.

 

[Zil]

check here -- http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/