Technomadness- My Custom Box Truck Build - with sailboat inside!

[Technomad]

Greetings--

Decided to start this thread because I've reached the point of viability and am gonna pursue this until it becomes unviable or I realize I'm insane.  Part of me thinks this is a little insane (well, typical me insane-- go far out there with different priorities than everyone else, but that has worked for me pretty damn well in my life.)

My crazy idea is-- I want to live full time in a van.  No big surprise there-- BUT-- I want to bring a sailboat with me, and I want to have a nice work space like I have in my apartment.  I'm a software developer and I can't be without my computers.   And I have a tendency to not want to compromise.

I really love sailing, and owned a boat for many years.  I learned my lesson though-- the more hassle it is to get on the water the less time you spend sailing, and the less likely you are to go sailing, and the other lesson is NEVER BUY A BOAT! Well, a "real" boat.  This hobie isn't really a boat, it's a sailing kayak with delusions of grandeur and given what I've seen on  youtube it sails quite well for a not-really-rigged, just-drop-the-mast-in sailboat.   (I haven't bought it yet but the candidates its competing with are smaller.)

I don't want to trailer this baby, and I don't want to give up precious real estate on the roof (cause I want it all solar panels so I can boondock as much as possible.)   So I want the boat to go IN THE VAN.

This boat and mast are both nearly 19 feet long.

So, I started looking at box vans and really liked the shape of U-hauls -- with that "moms attic"-- which allows a couple extra feet of length without extending the vehicle.  But Uhauls are mistreated and since every Uhaul dealer is independant and none of them really own any of the vehicles, I don't think they are well maintained (no offense to anyone associated with Uhaul)

Plus, trucks are damn cheap (unless you're buying a sprinter, SMH) 

These people make the boxes that go on a cutaway chassis.   There are options for a mom's attic and a cab-door, and they will put in windows and all kinds of stuff like that.  Since I'm buying new I can specify it exactly how I want.

In fact, the plan right now, is figure out the exact specs I want, and write them up with all the options, and then send a request for proposals to the relevant dealers across texas (I don't care if its someone in texarkana that puts the box on the frame)... and get a good deal by getting them to bid against each other.  (This is how I buy new cars but never have tried this with something custom.... a lot of them have cutaways on their lots right now already.)

Happy to hear any thoughts or advice from people who have done panel vans.

Oh, and the build-- I haven't done something like this on this scale, but I have worked with extruded aluminum a lot.  I can easily built a simple frame for the boat to sit on, keeping it near the roof (much like people do with their kayaks in their garages) and have it set on a hinge with a winch--- so the back side of it can be lowered to make loading it easier.)

So, one side of the build will be lower headroom than the other.

I'm planning on using 80/20 (or a knockoff) for the build and doing a complete internal frame, with supports a cross the roof, and running front to back on both sides, all connected together-- a box within the box-- which will be attached to the box and the floor, and to which everything will be attached.  So when I build shelves and the kitchen etc I can attach them to this extruded aluminum.  

I've seen wood in old RVs.  I've seen wood in old boats.  I don't like wood.  Aluminum is the material of my choice-- and the nice thing about 80/20 is that you can make changes.  You don't have to custom cut everything.... want to move something 20mm to the right?  Just unbolt it and slide it down.  Plus it's very strong and light weight.

That's what I've got so far.  The actual boat won't be bought this year, this year just going to work on getting the vehicle and then insulating it.  I can fit my bet in there and strap it down as is, etc.   I don't want to bite off more than I can chew all at once, and am going to pace myself (because work is intense and sometimes will take me away.)

 

[rooftopsolarsystem]

hi

 

[user 15857]

You do have expansive plans. I'm curious how you plan to offload and upload the Mirage from the van to the water. I have friends with those boats and you won't be manhandling it, too heavy and bulky. From a trailer at a boat ramp is the only viable way I've heard of launching one of these. Keep us posted on your progress it's an interesting idea.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Let me briefly thumbnail what an old friend of mine named Jim did:

He was diagnosed with early MD and wanted to live one of his dreams, traveling and sailing the lakes and coastal areas of the US.

He had a few years before things would become problematic so you know what he did?

He bought an SUV and a small MacGregor Sailboat on a trailer that has living quarters inside the boat. (I'm not a sailor so forgive the terms).

This boat had a retractable keel, foldable mast, and a small motor, as well as sails. He took me sailing on it a couple of times. It's not fast, but it will go anywhere, with or without wind. 

Plus, it was like a small RV inside, very cozy, with a small galley, head, and sleeping quarters. He pulled it all over the US, camping in the boat's living quarters on land, as if it were an RV, and then, when he would arrive at a lake or the coast, he would launch the boat and go sailing (or motoring) for days, living on board, with many of the comforts of home.

He had a small solar panel on the boat to keep the battery charged, and radio and tv antennas on the mast, for receiving signals from far away, whether parked in an RV park or campground, or on the water. 

That boat was the hit of the campground when on dry land, with no water for 100 miles, and he would boondock and deploy that 40 foot mast, with Texas Flag and TV antenna way the hell up there! Here was this old guy walking with a cane and setting up and taking down a boat mast on dry land...amazing. 

Plus, he could run local shopping errands with the SUV. Best of both worlds. (but not stealthy by any means!)

As his health declined the trips became shorter and then he passed away, sadly, and RIP, Jim Lamb. 

Might be worth looking into if you are still in the planning stages.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I just looked at the MacGregor website and it looks like they are no longer made, but can still be found used...this is a page with some pictures so you can see what they look like:

http://www.macgregor26.com/photo_gallery_page_1/photo_gallery_page_1.htm

 

[John61CT]

Yes the Macs are infamous in "proper yachting" circles as an ugly floating RV, or powerboat with a mast stuck on top.

But they have unique functionality, actually go pretty fast under sail, and when becalmed or see bad weather coming, you just drop your 50HP outboard and head for shore at 15+ knots!

The water ballasting has a bit of a learning curve if you're used to sailing with regular keels.

And yes lots more comfortable living space and storage compared to regular sailboats the same length.

And relatively inexpensive, just watch out even free can be too much if a lot of work is required, spending a grand on a good surveyor is a worthwhile investment.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Yep, for sure other boats could fill that space. I'm only familiar with that one sailboat, and a couple of kayaks and catamarans, and a power boat or two. Oh, and a waverunner!

But the main point is, that a sailboat with a small below deck cabin COULD fill this roll.

Like a dual-sport motorcycle, a MacGregor is a compromise and doesn't excel at anything, but works well for many things....and certainly it was almost perfect for what my friend Jim Lamb used it for.

Anyway, just a crazy out-of-the-box idea on a crazy out-of-the-box website.

 

[John61CT]

Dunno, the Macs are pretty unique.

Soon as you get past 8'6" wide you need to get permits, each state is different.

I suppose a bilge (twin) keel would also be shallow enough if you found one cheap, a lot more common in Europe than here. Westerly would be perfect, also decent amount of living space for their size.

Definitely don't want a regular keel boat sticking up in the air

Cool idea though, lots of bodies of water away from cities you could "boondock" on, pretty much indefinitely.

But maintenance costs do add up...

 

[makenmend]

Yes the Mac 26' is cavernous inside, queen bed aft, large V berth fwd and a dinette than can convert to bed/office. But as the OP said, the boat that gets used most is one that can be put on the water quickly, the Hobie Adventure Island is such a boat. I had the 16' version for many years lots of fun and very capable/safe, the mast is 2 piece carbon fiber so the whole  package is only 16' long. I only sold it because I built a wooden version 13.5' long that will fit inside my Transit.

 

[John61CT]

Very cool!

The idea here for the Mac is **that is your home**, on land while towing, or on water once launched.

Rather than sharing your limited living space with a boat.

 

[Technomad]

I'm curious how you plan to offload and upload the Mirage from the van to the water.  I have friends with those boats and you won't be manhandling it, too heavy and bulky. 

Short answer: Much like people like to hoist the boat up to the ceiling in their garage, I'm going to do the same thing in the truck.

I don't have direct experience with them, though as soon as I can find one for rent I am going to do so (ok, find one for rent, plus temperatures return to above freezing here!)

However, I am an expert because I've watched a bunch of youtube videos!    Seriously, though, there is a dolly that Hobie Makes for rolling the boat into the water from a beach.   I'm thinking of building a wheel system so the dolly is built in for easy deployment, and not having to leave the boat at the beach to go get the dolly and bring it back to the boat.  (I have seen such a system but I am not yet allowed to link to such things.)  

But, the real question is-- how am I going to store the boat, and easily get it in and out of a box truck?

The truck box is about 7 feet tall, and the bottom of that is probably 3-5 feet off of the ground (not sure yet since still speccing things out).... which means I have a 100 pound boat about 10-12 feet off the ground.

The answer is that I intend to build a boat cradle for this, out of 80/20, which is hinged at the front end of the box..... so with a winch I can lower the back end down to close to the floor of the box, and then pull the boat out onto the beach cradle or onto the wheels after I add them. In fact, I can have another winch that is connected to the front of the boat to lower it down the cradle at a fixed rate of speed. 

This means that head clearance on that side of the box will be lower because the boat is up there.  So that side is where the bed and kitchen/cabinets are going to go.  The boat cradle should be able to clear the bed.

However, this may mean a potentially wet boat above the bed, so .... it's not a perfect plan.

Edit: Oh, I meant to add, I like the SUV with boat-as-RV idea, but I need a space so I can work, and that is the other "crazy" requirement that is driving a lot of my decisions.  I get to work remote, so this is taking that to the next level, but I gotta have a good working environment.   I wouldn't be able to do that in an SUV, Pickup, or the MacGregor.  

But LOVE the idea!

He was diagnosed with early MD and wanted to live one of his dreams, traveling and sailing the lakes and coastal areas of the US.

He bought an SUV and a small MacGregor Sailboat on a trailer that has living quarters inside the boat. (I'm not a sailor so forgive the terms).

Wow, I really love that idea!   I have sailed a MacGregor before, in fact, I nearly bought one before I bought the boat I did buy (and lived in and owned for many years, but have since sold.)  They are really great.  I love the minimalist ("cheap") interior, and when I first started on this project, I wasn't thinking about boats at all, as I had put them out of mind when I sold mine and have been living inland since.... but the first boat I thought about going with this project was a MacGregor.  They really were a great combination of practicality, quality, flexibility, etc.

But I realized I do not want a big vehicle and also to be towing.... and I have several times considered a trailer and just don't want to be towing anything.   So, the MacGregor on the trailer would end up in storage somewhere and not get used enough. 

But it was the MacGregor that started me down the path of looking for even smaller boats, and having always been a fan of multihulls, I ended up liking what I see in the hobie-- the hobie is a lot like the macgregor-- low end manufacturing techniques plus really good designed giving a rather flexible versatile boat.

By the way, the MacGregors retired, and sold the business to their daughter and her husband, and they moved to Florida and started up making the MacGregor 26, only it's call the "Tattoo 26" --- they changed the name to Tattoo Yachts-- and then they started working on a 22 foot version but it seems they ran out of money, or have become dormant.   There are some Tattoo 26s around tho.

I had the 16' version for many years lots of fun and very capable/safe, the mast is 2 piece carbon fiber so the whole  package is only 16' long. I only sold it because I built a wooden version 13.5' long that will fit inside my Transit.

I have been looking around for something smaller, and I could go with the Adventure Island instead of the Tandem Island (but that beach camping idea is kinda sticking)... alas it only saves about a foot. 

There's also the TRIAK, and Warren Little Boats, the WETA trimaran and the Windrunner 17.... but all of these are either impossible to find or significantly more rigging time than the Hobie.

 

[John61CT]

Here's another way to go, Canadian outfit called Load-It

 


 http://www.loadit.com/products/


This one OMG 

http://www.loadit.com/boat-motor-trailer-loader/

 

[Technomad]

Here's another way to go, Canadian outfit called Load-It
http://www.loadit.com/boat-motor-trailer-loader/

Nice! That's kinda what I'm thinking about doing, only no trailer.  And man, it sure looks like the boat is molesting that poor pickup truck!

 

[makenmend]

Very cool!

The idea here for the Mac is **that is your home**, on land while towing,  or on water once launched.

Rather than sharing your limited living space with a boat.

Agree totally, and the OP having lived aboard for quite some time may have already considered this already. Spent some time with the Mac awhile back and was hot to trot until I got to to see the time involved rigging/launching/retrieving, even my little Tri takes 15-20 minutes to assemble. The Hobie takes half that time and with a plug in cart 1 person can easily launch/retrieve.

MM

 

[John61CT]

Nice! That's kinda what I'm thinking about doing

I'm thinking the "flipping type" could be rigged to put it right up on top for travel, and even when the boat's not being used, you flip the boat down when you want to use the solar panels.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Now if you have unlimited funds you can be this guy:

 

[Technomad]

Note:  with this arrangement the Hobie will be fully set up, other than the mast being taken out.  So pull boat and mast, drop mast, run main lines and ready to go!   Most of the setup and teardown of the Hobie is eliminated. Amas, akas, mirage drive, all that stays on.  Stowing is just folding the amas in, disconnecting the mast lines, dropping the mast and loading the boat in the cradle.

At one time in my life living in a MacGregor behind an SUV would have been ideal— but I’m keeping the day job so about a quarter of my layout is my work area.

Progress today:  I’ve worked out that I can get a RAM 4500 Cab Chassis and do this with 4WD!

BUT: Is it worth giving up cab access to the back in order to get 4WD and a much more comfortable cab?

This is now a low rent Show Hauler or Global Expedition type vehicle.  

Like Show Hauler I’m building a complete box frame out of 80/20 (they use welded steel but I prefer extruded aluminum, and can't weld, and want to be able to adjust anyway).... anyway this will take up the entire box and be bolted thru the floor to the steel cross beams of the box body, which is itself bolted to the chassis frame.  Should be very rigid and all the furniture, kitchen, bed, etc will be bolted to that.  So the walls can flex without problems. (Not sure if I should connect this frame to the walls as well or not.)

80/20 lets me take my time and change things with little effort just by un-bolting and moving.  I think everyone doing a build should check it out, it's a great solution for these things.

Someone earlier warned about building my ideal and then discovering that it’s not what I want— I’m trying to take that into account with this plan.

Also, since work can get hectic and involve a lot of travel, I’m not planning to eat the whole enchilada at once.  The boat hoist system is planned for next year.  This year I just want to get he substrate and insulate it.  That’s it. Then in the fall tackle heating solutions for the winter and maybe build out more furniture.  Very minimal work — just enough to live in it this summer— is planned this spring.

It may take several months to get this all built because I think I’m going to have to custom order it all—- no way I’m spending all that time ina low rent truck cab with just an FM radio to keep me company!  (The dealers config these with specs for businesses that care less about their employee comfort than I do when building my dream home.)

And that’s what this is. After the boat and traveling full time with just one bag for 6 years, this is the solution that should fit me best.

 

[Technomad]

I'm thinking the "flipping type" could be rigged to put it right up on top for travel, and even when the boat's not being used, you flip the boat down when you want to use the solar panels.

Oh wow, I missed that earlier.  That's exactly what I was trying to find about 2 weeks ago, and spent a bit of time trying to design, but couldn't figure out.  If I went with a Cargo Van or Bus conversion that would be perfect.... but there are many things that led me to this current design such as:
-- Just not being able to figure a way to fit my workspace in any kind of van, Sprinter ProMaster, RoadTrek, any Winnebego.  I could do it in a toy hauler easily, but then I'm towing and I don't want to tow.
-- The hassles of doing insulation (which seems like a big task) in a vehicle with so many curves etc.  I really find the straight walls of a box truck super appealing-- and it supports the "build a box out of 80/20 and then build the furniture on that" kind of approach.
-- All the other solutions seem to be compromised in ways I didn't like.  For instance a cargo van has only really one wall that's left alone-- the front is open to the cab, there is a side door and then there are back doors.... hard to cut any of those off individually, but that leaves you with really one full wall to work with.  (I've seen a lot of peoples' conversions and busses don't have this problem, but the bus thing never quite got to me.... I don't really want a lot of windows, actually.)

I really like the straight walls, simplicity of a box truck right now.   I also looked at Panel Vans (or Snap On Tools type trucks) but I would like to have the front wheels in front of me when driving, and you know, I would kinda like to have some air bags, in case there is a wreck!

 

[John61CT]

No I meant the flipper putting the boat on top of your tall truck.

Seems that company's pretty creative...

 

[Technomad]

No I meant the flipper putting the boat on top of your tall truck.

Seems that company's pretty creative...

They are very creative. And I might end up putting it up on the roof in the end. Right now though, I prefer the internal solution because it is more stealthy, but also because it’s less work. To put it up on the truck I need to break it down, take off the akas and remove the seats and the drive and all the misc attachments... so I think it will be less convenient. Plus right now I can put $1.68kw of solar up there for $1,200 and that sounds like a no brainer to me.

But this is all fluid— it might turn out that the cab over attic is super expensive, or some other compatibility issue might come up and then I have to rethink.


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