Spiritual Journey...

isellsunshine · Jan 23, 2013

HI All! Been lurking for a bit and thought it was high time to formally say hello. Curious if anyone else is in similar situation to my hubby (Dave) and me (Susan). When my husband and I met 5 years ago we were, gulp, over $115,000 in consumer debt between us. This included IRS, Chapter 13 Bankruptcy (the one where you pay back all debts + interest and fees), ex-wife, 2nd mortgage, auto loans and a bunch of credit card debt.  Needless to say we both had done a lot of stupid. For the last 5 years, we've been slashing lifestyle and chipping away at the debt and we now currently owe just over $30,000. It hasn't been easy and our friends all think we are weird so I figure we are on the right track. Both of our income has dropped in the last 6 months and we didn't see it coming soon enough so it's kind of jolted us into looking at making drastic changes. I want this debt out of our lives forever and am willing/wanting to speed things along as I think this last bit of debt is going to take 10+ years to pay off at the pace we are on of late. So here's the plan - would love input on things we may not be considering and just some thoughts from folks who have been in our shoes and have come out the other side. My husband will travel to Minnesota (we live in Arizona), in March and help his brother with his construction business. He'll get his CDL while he's there. I will stay back in AZ and continue to work with my clients (Realtor), and work on getting our house ready to put tenants in it which would cover mortgage payment, taxes, insurance, and maybe pocket a pit of money each month. We live off my income and use his money to save up for a 24 ft Travel Trailer. Wanting to keep it under $15,000 including generator or anything else we need to get it livable. Seems like that is doable from what I've been seeing on Craigslist locally. I would also want to pay off the credit card debt that we've incurred over last 5 months for living expenses - which is around $2,000. I move into the trailer early summer and rent out our house. Can park it at sons house for some time here in Phoenix and can also use his washer/dryer/electric/water etc. Which I'm thinking may make the transition a bit easier for us as we aren't out on the road in strange setting from the outset and can make adjustments as needed. Then when work dries up later this year due to weather in Minnesota, hubby and I will live full time in trailer and this is where things get a little murky for me. I don't know how feasible summer is in a trailer in Arizona. I know other people do it so I know it's possible, just don't know how realistic it is. I can't sleep if it's too hot and I have to imagine these things get crazy hot in the summer. And honestly, I'm not a clothes hoarder but my gosh it's like there is a space to hang 7 items in these things! Would love to find out how other gals make this part work!?! And how crazy is it to be a Realtor and live in a TT?  Seems to me it's like a doctor who smokes, something just doesn't add up, you know? Long term I'd like to move out of Real Estate or only do it part time but in the mean time I feel a little off about this. I do wonder sometimes if this is the right path - I sometimes think your income will arise to your needs and if our needs drop - would our income drop even further? In the medium term, we split the year, 1/2 in Minnesota and 1/2 in Arizona/other - Might be nice to get out of the heat in the summer. The long term play would then save up to pay cash for a piece of land to move the TT on and then possibly build a house or something like that - so that we would be set for retirement and not have to worry about having a roof over our head and place to call home. Self employed means we are on our own for our retirement and it scares the crap out of me that we are 45 with no retirement plan. In addition, I truly believe this process will be a spiritual journey as we learn to live on much less and find new ways of engaging w/the world. And I like the thought of smaller foot print. It's both quite exciting and terrifying all at the same time. Thanks for reading this far - I have tons more questions but for now will leave it at this. Any all thought/comments appreciated. Thanks, Susan & Dave in Sunny, Arizona

bk2valve · Jan 23, 2013

Welcome Susan and David...glad to have you with us and my very best to you and yours. I wish you great hurdles and difficulties on your path because that is what tempers us and sends us on a spiritual path. I know of no one who wakes up and says, "wow, what a great day! I think I will do all the work necessary to become a better me!" In my experience it is the folks who go, "Holy macaroni! My life sux, I am an idiot and have been blind most of my life!" who actually begin to awaken. In my view...and I am going to try very hard not to be controversial here since I tend to either go too far into what has been marked as a no-no on here and folks have problems with it....life IS a spiritual journey and in the end, has little to do with money, jobs, relationships or any of the other illusory things that we find ourselves caught in, EXCEPT as an arena to work out our personal issues and lessons as we move along on the spiritual journey. That is of course purely my personal opinion and experience. I don't think it makes a whit what path you choose, just that you wake up and see that there are paths and you can follow whatever it is.... It seems to me that: As Jerry Garcia sang in Ripple (RIP brother), "There is a road, no simple highway Between the dawn and the dark of night And if you go no one may follow That path is for your steps alone You who choose to lead must follow But if you fall you fall alone If you should stand then who's to guide you? If I knew the way I would take you home Happy Trails, Bri

SirJoey · Jan 23, 2013

S & D, welcome aboard! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/wave.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"> Seems to me, U could do better than 15 grand on your TT, unless of course, you're dead set on new or really late model. I only gave $6100 for mine, TOTAL, tax, tags & ALL. Granted, it's a 2000 model, but it's a 24' Coachmen, & it's like new, inside & out! Other than having to spend $100 when the water heater crapped out, I haven't had any problems at all, at least so far. Of course, I DID buy from a reputable dealer, & I haggled for a better price. Also, I've only been living in it about 4 1/2 months, but I'm pretty well satisfied with what I got for the money. So far, anyway.  Shop around. In this economy, it's a buyer's market, & there really are some good deals to be found, even from a dealer! <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

isellsunshine · Jan 23, 2013

Thanks Bri - just want I needed to hear. My post went on and on about the logistics, but in the end, I want to be free from the trappings and then who knows where things will go! And you are very correct Sir Joey - I had originally put down $10K for our amount and at the last minute changed it. The truth is hoping to spend under $7k for the trailer. Just starting on the search so maybe we'll even go lower. We were at first looking at 35 footers as we probably aren't going to drive it that much to start, but the more and more we looked we realized most of that space was unneeded.   Hubby is a mechanic so a Class C/A would probably be doable but I think I want to start smaller/easier and see how it goes. Cheers to you both! Susan in Sunny, AZ

bk2valve · Jan 23, 2013

Hi Susan, Cool beans.... Bri

akrvbob · Jan 23, 2013

Hi Susan, we are so glad you delurked and glad you are here. If you are at your sons house and have access to his power, you can use your air conditioner and stay reasonably comfortable. If that ends you could go into an RV park and run your air conditioner. The monthly payment will probably be much less than  any house or apartment. I think there are many of us who consider all of life a spiritual journey (and vandwelling even more a spiritual activity) so you will fit right in!! Bob

yesican · Jan 23, 2013

Hi Susan...Sounds like you're on the Dave Ramsey band wagon.  I'm also nearly out of debt and hoping to get on the road the end of summer.  I'm so ready  for that spiritual journey... Rae

isellsunshine · Jan 24, 2013

Dave Ramsey changed our life - curious Rae are you waiting till debt free
before going on road? Couldn't tell from your post

I go back n forth on whether should wait till debt free - but really want to reduce lifestyle and simplify

And thanks Bob - I'm in awe of what you've put together here.
Kudos!

peacetara · Jan 24, 2013

Welcome!!!!! I think the choice of waiting to be debt free or not is one of situation or one of economics. Either your situation forces you into homelessness (and van dwelling is a great cure!), or you have a money/math problem.  Depending on what you are spending on rent now, it might make lots of sense fiscally to just move now. For example, if you can get out from under the house payment, and you are paying $1,500/month to pay for it, either by renting, selling, etc.  If you can get get into a TT or whatever you want for less than a year of paying rent, then I say go for it.  Your return on investment will be a year (or less), I think it makes sense.  As soon as you pay off the TT (or hopefully pay for it all in cash), you are living rent free, and it doesn't cost you anything for shelter anymore.  Suddenly that $1,500 (or whatever your rent payment is) can go towards further reducing your debt. Myself, if getting out of debt is THE priority, then I'd suggest you skip 1 month of house payment, get out from under the house payment, and buy whatever you can afford for shelter with that 1 house payment (make sure the roof doesn't leak!). Then get out from under the house payment as soon as possible (hopefully the very same month).  After a few months, you have either severely dropped your debt, or saved up enough that you can buy whatever you want to live in cash in hand, if it turns out you are not comfortable in whatever it was you did buy.  Then you can sell the old one, and further lower debt. I don't think it matters that you live in a TT and are a realtor.  You have the experience of buying and selling houses (both personally and professionally) and you don't have to tell anyone you work with where you live now if you don't want to. What lots of us tend to do is go up in the mountains in the summer (or just north), and are basically "snowbirds" and travel north in the summer and south in the winter, rather than hassle with paying for electricity and Air Conditioners. Anyways, regardless of what you decide, I wish you lots and lots of successes! With Love, Tara

yesican · Jan 24, 2013

Yes, I am waiting till I'm debt free (via way of Dave Ramsey's teachings).  Which will be this year.  I want no weight of debt when I leave.  I also need to get something to live in while on the road and have not settled my decision on what would suit me best.  Yes, and everyone I know thinks I'm nuts because I purchase nothing frivilous. But, debt has decreased $68 thou in 3 1/2 years.  If I could sell my car, which I need for my job, I'd  be debt free in 3 months.  Unfortunately my car dependably takes me to my patients homes safely and inexpensively. Without it I wouldn't have a job.  Should be able to sell it this summer.  Are you two waiting to be debt free before you leave? Rae

Suanne · Jan 24, 2013

isellsunshine said:
I'm not a clothes hoarder but my gosh it's like there is a space to hang 7 items in these things! Would love to find out how other gals make this part work!?!

First, welcome Susan and David. I've been thinking about the clothes thing lately myself, as I am about to offer to do some volunteer work in a professional setting. I have strategies for packing small and light already as I travel solo in a Prius hatchback and also with hubby in a 20' Class C, albeit it's currently with casual wear.  Those strategies include using duffel bags for my clothes instead of hanging them up because duffel bags are more efficient in their use of space than hangers.  I select lightweight clothing that doesn't take up much space or wrinkle, and will keep me warmer or cooler by layering.  This means that I steer away from cottons and toward nylons and polyesters.  When I shop for clothing online, I do searches on "wrinkle" (resistant & free) and "travel".  When putting away clean laundry, I neatly roll a whole outfit together and put it in the duffel bag, not unlike I did when traveling for work (before retired). It's taken me several years to change my wardrobe over to travel-friendly casual clothing.  But, since I've done it with my casual wear, I suspect I will be able to do it with my professional wear too. Also, I also agree that this is a spiritual journey we are on.  Furthermore, being on the road and in nature transports me and connects me to a higher power and a higher self, like nothing else I've experienced so far. I look forward to hearing more as you both take steps to join the mobile lifestyle. Suanne ... currently in the Class C with John

isellsunshine · Jan 25, 2013

yesican said:
 Are you two waiting to be debt free before you leave? Rae

$68K in just over 3 years?Impressive!Due to lower income I feel like this last debt is going to take 10 years, therefore we are not going to wait until we are debt free to get started. Hope we don't regret this, but we aren't going on the road per se, as much as we are looking to lower our monthly nut and can pay down debt faster. Congrats - to be debt free and have your home paid for will be well worth the sacrafice! Susan

isellsunshine · Jan 25, 2013

Suanne said:
 I have strategies for packing small and light already as I travel solo in a Prius hatchback and also with hubby in a 20' Class C, albeit it's currently with casual wear.  Those strategies include using duffel bags for my clothes instead of hanging them up because duffel bags are more efficient in their use of space than hangers.  I select lightweight clothing that doesn't take up much space or wrinkle, and will keep me warmer or cooler by layering.  This means that I steer away from cottons and toward nylons and polyesters.  When I shop for clothing online, I do searches on "wrinkle" (resistant & free) and "travel".  When putting away clean laundry, I neatly roll a whole outfit together and put it in the duffel bag, not unlike I did when traveling for work (before retired). It's taken me several years to change my wardrobe over to travel-friendly casual clothing.  But, since I've done it with my casual wear, I suspect I will be able to do it with my professional wear too.

Thanks Sueanne! You've given me plenty of food for thought on how to transistion to "travel-friendly" clothing. I've never really given much thought to type of materials, but will start to pay close attention. Have a great weekend! Susan

blkjak · Jan 28, 2013

welcome .... blkjak

papas34 · Jan 28, 2013

Susan and Dave.....Welcome and congrates on you money management....must feel wonderful<img src="/images/boards/smilies/biggrin.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"> I was a realtor myself and found the balance of looking successful, but not too successful a fun line. Some days I drove my Jag and wore worn jeans, or I might wear a suit and drive my wifes older Buick Century.....lol I lived in a 8400 sq foot house on 3 acres and had to keep it hidden from client and other agents. Nobody needs to know where you live, but they will see how you are dressed and what you drive. A woman  usually needs more variety in clothing than men so that makes your delema a bit more difficult. A man can get away with one or two suits. I too am getting ready to full time it, even if I have to leave my wife at home......she thinks it's a good idea.....wonder what's up with that....<img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"> I have not figured out yet if you are dead set on a 24 foot trailer or if other forms and size of rv would be acceptable. My father was a contractor who often traveled out of town to work for his major client who had stores in most us cities......he found a bumper pull(TT) worked best for him. He was able to have his work truck and keep his tools locked up in a shell. He had a 2 slide out 28? footer and loved it as did my step mother......unless they parked at the job site!!! Most full timers seem to prefer 5th wheels.....they seem to hold their value because of this....I had not looked at them much, but now I am. I have been going crazy looking at the low price of Class A motor homes........they loose so much value......what a great bargain???? I have a 1980 fiberglass egg in good condition with next to nothing inside....not even a heater and it is worth about $4500......yet a newer1990s clean low mileage Class A can be found for about $6000  The amount of money you seem willing to invest should get you some bigger with slid outs, basement storage and a bigger closet. Good luck and most importantly.....have fun!!!!!

swankiewheels · Feb 3, 2013

I think your immediate goals are perfect.  I also think, you are trying to come up with all the answers for the future too far ahead of time.  If you take the first steps needed because you know they are the right ones NOW, the future path will become more visible to you as you approach it.  Relax a little more and live in the now a little more.  You are some great immediate solutions, the son's driveway (I have two sons and never had that option).  So I think you are good to go for the NOW. As for clothes, if you need to hang a couple things, for the professional real estate work/look, I think you can find space for that.  Things that could be folded, should be tucked away someplace.  Some people lay slacks/pants flat under their matress pad.  And try to make sure anything new you get doesn't need ironing. You have a great plan.  Answers will come to you, in time. Charlene

bk2valve · Feb 3, 2013

Excellent advice from Charlene... Bri

Bodhi · Feb 3, 2013

Just saying WELCOME and GOOD LUCK! Peace, Love and Freedom! Bodhi

Caspin · Feb 4, 2013

Personally, I'm not paying off any of my debt. In my opinion, the banks owe us all some money after the bailout. I won't ever need credit, especially as a humble van-dweller. Sure, student loan banks have the legal right to tap your social security. But that right there shows how messed up this country is in the first place. Why not just ditch it altogether and go teach English abroad. I taught at two schools in Turkey, without a degree or certificate.  Really, paying off the debt can be avoided, if you're willing to live close to the Earth. The whole dollar system's going down. All of the economics books I've been reading show this. The End of Growth is a good one to read.

Spiritual Journey...

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