Someone tried to break into my van while I was sleeping. Lets talk security
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Patrick46
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I've always like the big dog growling played on a hot switch idea, and also having a big chewed on water dish left outside. (I even thought about getting a big rubber dog turd to leave outside...but once this was discovered to be a fake, the rouse would be up!) 
I have a small one of these in my windows too.
It won't stop a 'real' thief...but it'll make most of them think twice, and move on. (which is all I want)
I have a small one of these in my windows too.
It won't stop a 'real' thief...but it'll make most of them think twice, and move on. (which is all I want)
I thought I remember Bob talking about how people run home from work, and bolt and lock themselves into their S&B homes, because they are scared to death of someone breaking in to get them or their possessions.
Now after reading your (as well as some other peoples experiences on this thread), it looks like things are no different security wise living in a vehicle maybe even less secure. I personally always have been nervous sleeping in my vehicle at times, even in a Wal-Mart. I always just feel more vulnerable, except in a formal campground. Even then, depending on the campground, I have not felt completely safe. Common sense tells me that if I am sleeping in a vehicle on a street, I am not as safe as in a house.
Also...I have never had a cop come banging on my door of my house in the wee hours of the morning either. It just seems to me that if you live in a vehicle you are constantly on guard for either the criminals, or cops. That would make for a very anxious life......for me at least.
This is just my opinion, and how I feel about this.
Now after reading your (as well as some other peoples experiences on this thread), it looks like things are no different security wise living in a vehicle maybe even less secure. I personally always have been nervous sleeping in my vehicle at times, even in a Wal-Mart. I always just feel more vulnerable, except in a formal campground. Even then, depending on the campground, I have not felt completely safe. Common sense tells me that if I am sleeping in a vehicle on a street, I am not as safe as in a house.
Also...I have never had a cop come banging on my door of my house in the wee hours of the morning either. It just seems to me that if you live in a vehicle you are constantly on guard for either the criminals, or cops. That would make for a very anxious life......for me at least.
This is just my opinion, and how I feel about this.
SternWake said:
Crazy story. Glad mine didn't come to that. This experience and reading and talking about the issues in Seattle has made me more aware of how awful the situations are in some parts of the US. I feel fortunate that I've never lived, even until now in my cross-country van trip, in a place filled with so much drug and mental health related homeless people. Having said that, I just spent a month in Vancouver, BC which has a HUGE amount of these people but the city seems to deal with it in a much better (yet still inadequate) way. There doesn't seem to be remotely the same level of crime related to this community as there is in Seattle and many other regions of the US... this is the wealthiest country in the world, yet is on par with Eastern Europe, or worse, by most relevant measures. I'm glad I can just move to new, safer places at the turn of a key... I can't wait to leave Seattle in a few days when I'm done with a few things I have to do here. I can't say I'm worrying about anything, but I'm certainly at a heightened state of alert. Its not a good way to be.
Patrick46 said:I've always like the big dog growling played on a hot switch idea, and also having a big chewed on water dish left outside. (I even thought about getting a big rubber dog turd to leave outside...but once this was discovered to be a fake, the rouse would be up!)
I have a small one of these in my windows too.
It won't stop a 'real' thief...but it'll make most of them think twice, and move on. (which is all I want)
I really don't see the point in these stickers. Couldn't they just try the door/lock and if the noise doesn't incite a bark, then continue? Thanks for the input though.
Stevesway said:
Until yesterday, I had NEVER felt unsafe and I've been living all over north america in all sorts of situations over the past 8 months. Honestly, I never even thought about safety/security. It just seems that Seattle is a complete shit hole with major homelessness/drug/mental health related crime issues that are not being dealt with appropriately. I am looking forward to leaving in a few days and finding somewhere, likely back in Canada, that doesn't keep me on edge all the time. Regardless, I'm going to set up some of the basic precautions that I've mentioned as they are cheap and can only help.
Belinda2
Well-known member
In 1992, I had someone try to break into my (car) that I was living in 2-5 days/week. I must admit, I couldn't control myself. It wasn't just a car to me....it was my home. Once they entered, they saw me, and I went out after them ( to be young and foolish). It was a Saturday night at 2 AM......... He lost massively.
Remember girls: There are two things that men hate:
a. too religious
b. crazy.
Girls, You've got to get this down. You may not win with fighting because you have limited upper arm strength. But crazy? If you've got that "mastered" he WILL leave you alone!!!
To the women reading this post: When I raise my female voice, I always make sure I say a common man's name, like I am calling to a second person to wake them up. ( So it looks like I am not alone).
Remember girls: There are two things that men hate:
a. too religious
b. crazy.
Girls, You've got to get this down. You may not win with fighting because you have limited upper arm strength. But crazy? If you've got that "mastered" he WILL leave you alone!!!
To the women reading this post: When I raise my female voice, I always make sure I say a common man's name, like I am calling to a second person to wake them up. ( So it looks like I am not alone).
Stevesway said:
It might be how you feel before actually doing it, but actually doing it could potentially change your mind.
Humans are cognitively odd when it comes to actual vs. perceived risk. Driving is by far the riskiest activity statistically that most of us engage with on a regular basis, yet most people are not particularly anxious about decreasing their risk for serious injury or death by reducing the amount of time they spend inside a moving vehicle. Many, myself included, even buckle their seatbelt without fail every single time they climb in--which if you think about it is pretty inconvenient--actively preparing for the possibility of a crash. Yet most do not buckle their seatbelts thinking about the risk of collision, they just do so because it's a routine habit.
I'm constantly on guard for criminals because I'm a young white woman who's visibly disabled from walking far. That's going to be the same no matter where I'm living, whether in a vehicle or in a house. And if you think you're safer from cops hassling you in a house, my experience indicates otherwise when I was 17 and cops forcibly entered to my family's house without a warrant. It was supposedly on my behalf...I was gravely ill and CPS was called on my parents by some family friend who didn't know what they were talking about. The cops and agents didn't bother to actually investigate by speaking with any of the the medical professionals my parents referred them to. Thanks to their royal breech in protocols designed to prevent exactly such needlessly traumatic scenarios, to this day I still get massively triggered by any encounter with a cop no matter how kind they are to me.
And, I know most people don't like hearing this, but most women need to be on guard even around men they're acquainted with,as that's the source of the majority of rapes. Yet, this doesn't mean women cease forming connections and letting men into their lives. In fact, unless/until it happens to you or someone you know personally, this and other risks are often completely off a person's radar.
When an experience like the OP's occurs, it's a natural, instinctive reaction to initially go a little overboard in trying to prevent it in the future. As the sting of the experience fades, so does the urgency to focus on absolutely preventing it. Two of the posts here about breakins are from leaving a door unlocked, and would have prevented entry. And honestly I have never heard of anyone living in their vehicles who have had a prowler persist despite the alarm going off, OR a horn. I know of one cardweller who would set up under a car cover, and if a prowler came around she'd lean on the horn. Only had one ever come back for a second try, and leave for good when she honked again.
Living in a vehicle means you're more aware of when someone's testing your security than you would be if in a house.
For those interested in increasing the security of their windows, Enhanced Protective Glass is the deluxe version replaces your window with a different type of glass), VehicleGARD is the DIY version (apply a film yourself that behaves similarly).
nixsee said:
I didn't realize you're still here! PMed you about a spot I always go to when I need to feel safe. You're more than welcome to come on over.
I've been living in Seattle for over a year. Yeah, there are problem areas...I avoid them. The most aggressive attack occurred because I was parked one block away from what would have been a much safer spot. Perhaps this area has more street smarts involved in safety, e.g. if it's a new spot observe the flow of foot traffic at night before deeming it safe. The homeless and prowlers tend to more or less travel the same route, so anytime you can get away from their main pathways through the city and yet still be in a well lit area on a busy-ish road then you'll probably be good, as the odds tip towards safety. If you find yourself on one of their usual footpaths then a lot of them are going to walk by your van and the chances of one deciding to do something increase significantly.
Canine
Well-known member
nixsee said:
The stickers mean little, that is true. However, stickers do provide some measure of security. Nothing that one does to protect themselves will be a panacea to crime. Some methods work better than others. Many of the methods are of the "get what you pay for" variety. If you have a sticker on your vehicle, and a couple of paranoid tweakers see that, they may just think, "Oh, man. I don't know, man. Maybe we should go for the other car. Those windows aren't blocked and I can clearly see a backpack in that one." In the case of stickers, you are trying to make yourself as a less desirable target than the vehicles next to you or to stop a break in from someone who is on the fence. Many criminals are novices, after all they all start somewhere, and you might be able to avoid one of them.
They have to make a choice between car A or car B. If you've done it right, a criminal will not choose your car. At least at first. If the car next to yours goes off, then that gives you that much more notice to prepare. I take any advantage to survive I can. I don't discount anything if it has more value than detriment. Even if it is truly is silly and makes me look stupid, I'm OK with that. At least I survive.
For an encounter with a true bad guy with experience, stickers are an utter joke. You need to be lucky, be able to run like the dickens, or be hard, fast, and violent if you want to survive. The violent people are relatively rare; the petty or weak criminals are much more common.
I'm glad you are asking questions. Very good! Take what you can from this thread and leave the rest. You are clearly a capable person and you know what you want in your bag of tools.
USExplorer
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Security is an illusion, I hope this incident taught you that. The vandweller equivalent of waking up in the morning and finding a drunk passed out on your living room couch.
When you wake up unexpectedly, is your mind clear or fuzzy? I could see how those who wake up with fuzzy minds will be far more fearful of nighttime interruptions. I used to be very fearful of nighttime interruptions, afraid that someone would see me pulling into a campsite, afraid that someone would stumble into me in the dark, afraid that my turn signals would glint in passing headlights and draw attention. I would hide in nasty overgrown mudholes and cover my truck with a camo tarp just to avoid being seen by anyone.
Now, I tent camp on top of ridges and embankments with a commanding view of my surroundings. I camp under bridges when it suits my fancy, or on the shoulder of a back road. I rely on my intuition, of course, and do not deliberately court danger. I avoid sleeping on public streets when possible, because I understand the irrational behavior of bored youth looking for a thrill. That said, I sleep within reaching distance of two guns, but loading and maneuvering either of them within the confines of my vehicle is next to impossible.
Where I generally stay (in rural areas), attempting entry into cars that might contain a sleeping individual is like playing Russian roulette. An out of state plate on a dirty SUV with all-terrain tires tinted windows and a rear spotlight, parked in the middle of nowhere. To predators, I'm not easy pickings, I'm a lone wolf. Of course if the mafia put a hitman on my trail, none of that would matter, but I fall well below the threshold of attention for professional criminals.
When you wake up unexpectedly, is your mind clear or fuzzy? I could see how those who wake up with fuzzy minds will be far more fearful of nighttime interruptions. I used to be very fearful of nighttime interruptions, afraid that someone would see me pulling into a campsite, afraid that someone would stumble into me in the dark, afraid that my turn signals would glint in passing headlights and draw attention. I would hide in nasty overgrown mudholes and cover my truck with a camo tarp just to avoid being seen by anyone.
Now, I tent camp on top of ridges and embankments with a commanding view of my surroundings. I camp under bridges when it suits my fancy, or on the shoulder of a back road. I rely on my intuition, of course, and do not deliberately court danger. I avoid sleeping on public streets when possible, because I understand the irrational behavior of bored youth looking for a thrill. That said, I sleep within reaching distance of two guns, but loading and maneuvering either of them within the confines of my vehicle is next to impossible.
Where I generally stay (in rural areas), attempting entry into cars that might contain a sleeping individual is like playing Russian roulette. An out of state plate on a dirty SUV with all-terrain tires tinted windows and a rear spotlight, parked in the middle of nowhere. To predators, I'm not easy pickings, I'm a lone wolf. Of course if the mafia put a hitman on my trail, none of that would matter, but I fall well below the threshold of attention for professional criminals.
I just scanned through the responses. Being a police officer for the last 17 years I can tell my opinion.
1. You may not legally have a fire arm on some of the places you travel, so IL recommend a paintball gun. Air soft weapons tend to look too real and could cause you issues.
In the dark a paint ball with a tact light on it would allow you reach someone from far enough away that they won't know what they've been hit with. Surprise, violence in action and a clear plan are how you keep safe.
2. Get on Craigslist and get you a smartphone. It can be used for a plethora of entertainment and conveniences and calling 911 is free.
3. If you decide pepper spray , DO NOT USE IT IN YOU VEHICLE except for last resort. It WILL effect your ability to drive away. If you spray you will get contaminated.
4. As far parking goes and crime, sounds like the good decisions of the public places is sound. I would avoid neighborhoods period. Just guessing but based on my personal experience 90 percent of entering auto crimes happen in residential neighborhoods. With boat ramps and commercial properties making up the last 10.
If you parked in neighborhood in commercial looking van, pill heads, meth heads and stupid teenagers are gonna want to see if you anything good or want the whole vehicle.
Another thought is setup a button sounds a car alarm, if you just drawn to residential areas. In the mid of the night the bad will panic. Then just turn it off the neighbors will be none the wiser. Suspect probably won't come back.
1. You may not legally have a fire arm on some of the places you travel, so IL recommend a paintball gun. Air soft weapons tend to look too real and could cause you issues.
In the dark a paint ball with a tact light on it would allow you reach someone from far enough away that they won't know what they've been hit with. Surprise, violence in action and a clear plan are how you keep safe.
2. Get on Craigslist and get you a smartphone. It can be used for a plethora of entertainment and conveniences and calling 911 is free.
3. If you decide pepper spray , DO NOT USE IT IN YOU VEHICLE except for last resort. It WILL effect your ability to drive away. If you spray you will get contaminated.
4. As far parking goes and crime, sounds like the good decisions of the public places is sound. I would avoid neighborhoods period. Just guessing but based on my personal experience 90 percent of entering auto crimes happen in residential neighborhoods. With boat ramps and commercial properties making up the last 10.
If you parked in neighborhood in commercial looking van, pill heads, meth heads and stupid teenagers are gonna want to see if you anything good or want the whole vehicle.
Another thought is setup a button sounds a car alarm, if you just drawn to residential areas. In the mid of the night the bad will panic. Then just turn it off the neighbors will be none the wiser. Suspect probably won't come back.
Gigi
Well-known member
First of all nixsee, I'm just happy you are okay!
So here is my question and I totally accept the fact that I could be incredibly naive but having my own rig broken into a couple times right outside my home-- It is usually drug addicts looking taking everything and anything not nailed down to sell & they go right down the line of neighbors for a block or so-- Wouldn't a potential theif be really surprised to hear a voice coming from inside the vehicle and run off? Don't stealthy vandwellers have that going for them? The element of OMG there is someone IN there!?
Gigi
So here is my question and I totally accept the fact that I could be incredibly naive but having my own rig broken into a couple times right outside my home-- It is usually drug addicts looking taking everything and anything not nailed down to sell & they go right down the line of neighbors for a block or so-- Wouldn't a potential theif be really surprised to hear a voice coming from inside the vehicle and run off? Don't stealthy vandwellers have that going for them? The element of OMG there is someone IN there!?
Gigi
Gigi
Well-known member
This is brilliant and now on my must have list. Thank you for all your tips!K9lestat said:
Gigi
Canine
Well-known member
In New Jersey I think you need a firearm permit to be able to have a paintball gun. People often become felons for having items like that; be careful where you are.
If I were shot at with a paintball gun and thought I had been shot or shot at for real, which would not be an unreasonable assumption, I would defend myself with as much force as I could muster. If that meant running away, I would do that first, but if I felt I had no other choice, then the person with the fake gun would be shot at with a real gun. I would do whatever I could do to stop what I perceived as a lethal threat. I am going to do what I can to survive. Bad guys and good guys alike usually want to live and many will violently do what they can to achieve that goal.
I've been hit with paintballs and have shot others as well. One time there were 3 of us and we stood in a triangle about 20 feet from each other and unloaded on each other as fast as we could. We were laughing and whooping. You know that saying, "It's all fun a games until someone loses an eye?" I got shot in the face. It sucked. I had lost vision in my eye and wasn't feeling too good about that for a few minutes. I was fine after a rest. Getting hit with a paintball will get your attention. Body shots sting and even bruise with a thin shirt, but they will in no way that I can see disable a healthy person. If you are wearing a winter coat, there is no pain, and furthermore, there is no discomfort.
Most of the time criminals aren't looking for a fight and will run from the threat of lethal force. A faux gun will likely help you in those cases. But if you bumped up against a real bad guy, someone who had no qualms about stabbing or violating you, having a faux gun could easily be worse than having no gun of any kind. Threatening a bad guy with a toy when your life is at stake may prevent you from having enough time to utilize a more effective method of self defense (calling 911, running, using a real gun, driving away); in this case, a fake gun would be worse than nothing at all.
One other possible negative is if you escalate the situation with the threat of lethal force with a faux gun, the bad guy with a real gun may escalate with real lethal force and shoot at you, possibly striking people and property behind you. I'm not saying this to demonstrate the legal consequences of such an action. I'm saying this so you know that if you want to go down that road, you need to think about all the potential consequences of your actions/inactions. My point is I don't know of any method of self defense that doesn't have a down side; all the consequences, both positive and negative must be weighed.
Being the victim of a crime like this is very small, so statistically, you should be fine, but if you want to prepare for a truly bad deal, skip the fake crap and get capable. At least be prepared in case the fake stuff doesn't fool him/her/them/it.
Know that if you don't want to use lethal force, don't want to increase your situational awareness, don't want to get into the habit of locking your doors every time, etc., in defense of yourself that is fine. I'm all for using the least amount of force when reasonable, but I don't stop there. If the barking doesn't work, then the biting begins. What we do to defend ourselves is an individual choice. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that a paintball gun will provide more defense/safety than it can actually provide. I'm not saying don't use a paintball gun, just be aware of its capabilities and balance that with its limitations so you can better manage your risk.
Also be aware of the second time you may be victimized- the time you may spend in court defending yourself both legally and civilly. The choices you make now could have long term consequences. Yes, you want to make it out alive, preferably intact; however, you will likely want some semblance of the life you previously had before a violent encounter.
If I were shot at with a paintball gun and thought I had been shot or shot at for real, which would not be an unreasonable assumption, I would defend myself with as much force as I could muster. If that meant running away, I would do that first, but if I felt I had no other choice, then the person with the fake gun would be shot at with a real gun. I would do whatever I could do to stop what I perceived as a lethal threat. I am going to do what I can to survive. Bad guys and good guys alike usually want to live and many will violently do what they can to achieve that goal.
I've been hit with paintballs and have shot others as well. One time there were 3 of us and we stood in a triangle about 20 feet from each other and unloaded on each other as fast as we could. We were laughing and whooping. You know that saying, "It's all fun a games until someone loses an eye?" I got shot in the face. It sucked. I had lost vision in my eye and wasn't feeling too good about that for a few minutes. I was fine after a rest. Getting hit with a paintball will get your attention. Body shots sting and even bruise with a thin shirt, but they will in no way that I can see disable a healthy person. If you are wearing a winter coat, there is no pain, and furthermore, there is no discomfort.
Most of the time criminals aren't looking for a fight and will run from the threat of lethal force. A faux gun will likely help you in those cases. But if you bumped up against a real bad guy, someone who had no qualms about stabbing or violating you, having a faux gun could easily be worse than having no gun of any kind. Threatening a bad guy with a toy when your life is at stake may prevent you from having enough time to utilize a more effective method of self defense (calling 911, running, using a real gun, driving away); in this case, a fake gun would be worse than nothing at all.
One other possible negative is if you escalate the situation with the threat of lethal force with a faux gun, the bad guy with a real gun may escalate with real lethal force and shoot at you, possibly striking people and property behind you. I'm not saying this to demonstrate the legal consequences of such an action. I'm saying this so you know that if you want to go down that road, you need to think about all the potential consequences of your actions/inactions. My point is I don't know of any method of self defense that doesn't have a down side; all the consequences, both positive and negative must be weighed.
Being the victim of a crime like this is very small, so statistically, you should be fine, but if you want to prepare for a truly bad deal, skip the fake crap and get capable. At least be prepared in case the fake stuff doesn't fool him/her/them/it.
Know that if you don't want to use lethal force, don't want to increase your situational awareness, don't want to get into the habit of locking your doors every time, etc., in defense of yourself that is fine. I'm all for using the least amount of force when reasonable, but I don't stop there. If the barking doesn't work, then the biting begins. What we do to defend ourselves is an individual choice. Just don't fool yourself into thinking that a paintball gun will provide more defense/safety than it can actually provide. I'm not saying don't use a paintball gun, just be aware of its capabilities and balance that with its limitations so you can better manage your risk.
Also be aware of the second time you may be victimized- the time you may spend in court defending yourself both legally and civilly. The choices you make now could have long term consequences. Yes, you want to make it out alive, preferably intact; however, you will likely want some semblance of the life you previously had before a violent encounter.
I agree. If the less lethal doesn't work. I'd rather be tried 12 than carried by 6.Canine said:
If you are defending yourself then there has been a perceived threat. An individual needs to be comfortable with telling someone how scared they were. Do be all macho when it's over and the police are there. You tell them exactly how you felt.
Like said above if you defend yourself in a public place you may have to defend your action in court. Unfortunately slick attorneys and administrators scared of litigation have taken a lot of descression for officers on the street.
The civilian model of the real taser from taser international uses the same cartridge design as leo's. It likes like an electric shaver in its shape. The difference in the shock is the police models run for 5 seconds the civilian model runs for 20 seconds. It meant for you to tase an individual and flee to safety.
That said if anyone finds themselves in a situation where they have defend themselves and flee, as soon as you are safe can and report it. If not you will look more like an offender instead of the victim. Be smart.
TheBlackLatin
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First of all...glad that you're alive and well!
I personally have two fake/dummy alarm with a blue LED flashing light in the rear and front windows that I turn on before going to sleep. Additionally, I turn on my real alarm, which has a flashing blue LED light along with removing the face of my stereo, which has a steady red LED light.
I have a Viper alarm installed, so if someone knocks on my van, it will set off a warning alarm for a few seconds. In my opinion, my setup is enough as a deterrent.
I personally have two fake/dummy alarm with a blue LED flashing light in the rear and front windows that I turn on before going to sleep. Additionally, I turn on my real alarm, which has a flashing blue LED light along with removing the face of my stereo, which has a steady red LED light.
I have a Viper alarm installed, so if someone knocks on my van, it will set off a warning alarm for a few seconds. In my opinion, my setup is enough as a deterrent.
Amazing thread, and so important too. Security means safety so security should never a compromise you can afford by any means, IMO.
One idea I had was installing a camera in the front cabin somewhere it would be visible from the outside, maybe with a red blinking light. A lot of people, including police cars and I think even commercial vehicles are installing dashcams now because video evidence is always so important in court and dealing with the law, and this case would be no different. I would imagine a red blinking light attached to a camera pointed out the driver side window at an angle would deter almost any thief, whether or not the camera is even on (if you're worried about power usage). It would also help in certain situations if you are being harassed by a police officer because he knows hes being taped. Not that police are bad people (they aren't), but it only takes one bad apple to have a bad experience. Also, anyone that is knocking on your door or window but not breaking it is probably the police. Not sure why anyone trying to murder you or steal your van would do that as it only attracts attention. Even if it's someone that just thinks you look suspicious would probably call the police first anyway. As a last resort, guns are banned in many states as pointed out, but axes are not. They also make bats that look like normal baseball bats but they are solid steel and designed for self defense as another option. So many things to talk about security!
One idea I had was installing a camera in the front cabin somewhere it would be visible from the outside, maybe with a red blinking light. A lot of people, including police cars and I think even commercial vehicles are installing dashcams now because video evidence is always so important in court and dealing with the law, and this case would be no different. I would imagine a red blinking light attached to a camera pointed out the driver side window at an angle would deter almost any thief, whether or not the camera is even on (if you're worried about power usage). It would also help in certain situations if you are being harassed by a police officer because he knows hes being taped. Not that police are bad people (they aren't), but it only takes one bad apple to have a bad experience. Also, anyone that is knocking on your door or window but not breaking it is probably the police. Not sure why anyone trying to murder you or steal your van would do that as it only attracts attention. Even if it's someone that just thinks you look suspicious would probably call the police first anyway. As a last resort, guns are banned in many states as pointed out, but axes are not. They also make bats that look like normal baseball bats but they are solid steel and designed for self defense as another option. So many things to talk about security!
Canine
Well-known member
Some dash cams automatically upload to a cloud, so if there were someway to communicate to the potential thief that destroying or stealing the camera won't get rid of proof, that would help. If they don't care that their identity is being recorded, you may need to be a little more concerned at that point.
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