Solar Design Challenge

[SoulRaven]

Okay so here's the challenge.:
 

• I have a naked 2012 Toyota Sienna that will not have any permanent mods. No drilling. No gluing.
• I have an ACOPOWER 12V 105W Foldable Solar Panel Kit; Portable Solar Charger Suitcase of Monocrystalline Module & 10A Charge Controller For RV, Boat 
• I want to put the solar panel on the roof while I am driving.
• I want the solar panel to not lift while in motion.
• I want the solar panel to remain in my possession and not get stolen.
• I don't want the paint of the Sienna to be damaged.
• I want to be able to easily remove the panel from the roof when I am camped.
• I would prefer that it isn't obvious that I have a solar panel on the roof.

I want a lot, I know, but that is how things get invented.  I have thought of:

• using strong magnets but am thinking that that might cause issues with the panel. 
• using ratchet straps but it seems that that would call attention to the van.
• using bungies but again, attention getting

Anyway, looking for ideas.  If you are so inclined...

 

[Trebor English]

Does your Sienna have a roof rack of any sort?  My 99 Ford Windstar came with a roof rack.  I used that for the panel mounting.  My panel is a single rigid rectangle 100 watt panel.

5 years ago I needed to carry a ladder for work.  I was driving a 95 Nissan Altima with a naked roof.  I bought a roof rack.  It is two tubes that go across.  Each end has a rubber suction cup that sets on the roof.  Each end has a strap with a flat hook that hooks into the door opening.  There are no screws, no glue.  That rack could carry a solar panel.  

I have no clue how to attach a folding panel unless there is some way to make it not fold.

 

[SoulRaven]

Wood shop magnets...
http://www.fordtransitusaforum.com/camper-vans-conversions/13466-magnetic-solar-panel-mount.html

 

[Trebor English]

Don't put a strap over the panel so that it causes part of the panel to be shaded.  That will reduce the output of the panel dramatically and cause overheating in the cells that are partially shaded.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Okay so here's the challenge.:
OK here is my first pass solution:

• I have a naked 2012 Toyota Sienna that will not have any permanent mods. No drilling. No gluing.

1. I will assume it doesn't have a roof rack.

• I have an ACOPOWER 12V 105W Foldable Solar Panel Kit; Portable Solar Charger Suitcase of Monocrystalline Module & 10A Charge Controller For RV, Boat 

2. Flexible panels with fabric case?  Is the cord running from the panels long enough to get to where you can mount the charge controller?

• I want to put the solar panel on the roof while I am driving.

3. Get a lockable roof rack for the Sienna.  Mount a plywood sheet onto roof rack.

• I want the solar panel to not lift while in motion.

4. You will need to insure air does not get under the panel.  One way to do that is to clamp the edges down to the plywood using metal straps.  If you go over rough roads the panels are still going to vibrate and beat the crap out of the solar cells.  I don't think the panels would last long.

• I want the solar panel to remain in my possession and not get stolen.

5. Locking roof rack, plywood attached to roof rack with tamper-proof fasteners,  panel attached with tamper-proof fasteners.  You will need to carry the correct tools to remove fasteners.

• I don't want the paint of the Sienna to be damaged.

6. A quality roof rack, like a Thule shouldn't damage paint and is removable.

• I want to be able to easily remove the panel from the roof when I am camped.

7. This is in conflict with #5.  The easier it is for you to remove the easier it is for someone else to remove.

• I would prefer that it isn't obvious that I have a solar panel on the roof.

8. Sides on the plywood to make a box; short enough or far enough from panel to not create shade should make the panel difficult to see from the ground.  Your biggest challenge will be to hide the chord running from the panel into the Sienna.

I want a lot, I know, but that is how things get invented.  I have thought of:

• using strong magnets but am thinking that that might cause issues with the panel.

You could get strong enough NdFeB magnets but they would probably scratch the paint and you would need a crowbar to get them off.  Big on-off magnets don't meet the theft-proof requirement.

• using ratchet straps but it seems that that would call attention to the van.
• using bungies but again, attention getting

These are easily cut, don't meet the theft-proof requirement.  Also, panels will flap; beating the crap out of cells.

Anyway, looking for ideas.  If you are so inclined...

 

[SondraRose]

If it were MY car, I would get a lockable, removable roof rack and mount a solar panel that is designed for this purpose to the rack. Keep your suitcase panels for camp; they aren't designed to be mounted.

We have portable panels as well, but if we need more juice, this is what we will do on our van.

 

[John61CT]

Lots of roof rack system's "feet" will clamp to your stock roof side rails.

But not stealthy of course.

So securely tying from the corners to those rails gives sideways security, then add high-power magnets all around, more along the leading edge to hold it down.

But nothing will stop thieves, in a sketchy neighborhood put them inside

 

[highdesertranger]

all three of the methods you mention will rub the paint off, especially in dusty conditions. I feel your best bet is a roof rack like others have mentioned. highdesertranger

 

[SoulRaven]

Does your Sienna have a roof rack of any sort?  My 99 Ford Windstar came with a roof rack.  I used that for the panel mounting.  My panel is a single rigid rectangle 100 watt panel.

5 years ago I needed to carry a ladder for work.  I was driving a 95 Nissan Altima with a naked roof.  I bought a roof rack.  It is two tubes that go across.  Each end has a rubber suction cup that sets on the roof.  Each end has a strap with a flat hook that hooks into the door opening.  There are no screws, no glue.  That rack could carry a solar panel.  

I have no clue how to attach a folding panel unless there is some way to make it not fold.

Hi Trebor English,
There are no gutters on my Sienna, so I can't get a universal rack. So thanks for mentioning the one with the suction cups.  You don't happen to remember the brand and model do you?
GypsyP

 

[SoulRaven]

What if the magnet switches were upside down on the inside of the van?

 

[highdesertranger]

if you lay anything up against the paint it will rub the paint off. this is especially true in the western deserts where dusty conditions are common. highdesertranger

 

[John61CT]

> no gutters on my Sienna

Side rails are standard on the roof

Many Yakima foot styles fit them, just give etrailer.com a call.

 

[Trebor English]

So thanks for mentioning the one with the suction cups.  You don't happen to remember the brand and model do you?

As I recall I got it at Advance Auto Parts.  The old 1995 paint was rubbed by the suction cups.  It was seriously oxidized so anything would leave a mark.  I think a fresh waxing might be enough to not leave a mark.  After 2 years with the ladder on the rack the four circles almost disappeared after a quick rubbing with a rag.

 

[TechScott]

Magnets or suction cups aren't going to do the job alone. They are designed to hold things down but won't hold well against shear forces (side to side) that will be produced by the van going down the road.

Your best option may be to modify your requirements and add a battery isolator to charge your house battery from your van's alternator (through the van battery). The 2012 Sienna's alternator produces 150 amps to charge your van and house battery, FAR more than your 105-watt solar panel will ever produce on the roof as you go down the road. This option will meet your requirement to not make any permanent changes to the van and you'll still have your panel to top-up the house battery charge when you re boondocking.

 

[tx2sturgis]

I think I missed some information, possibly posted in another thread.

Why exactly does the foldable panel need to be on the roof while you are driving?

You didn't mention a separate battery or 'power pack'.

If you do have one and need to charge it, can't it be charged while driving from the vehicle electrical system?

Or is this folding panel kit intended to keep the engine battery topped-up when camping? If so, the folding panels wont be needed when driving the vehicle.

 

[DLTooley]

I don’t think it is doable unless you modify the plywood idea with a glass top sandwiching the foldable panel. That could meet your criteria but it is likely cheaper and definitely simpler to mount traditional panels on a rack which you will need anyway.

For just charging while driving the vehicle alternator solution is better than flexible panels.

I’d start with that and add rigid panels when I expanded the system.

 

[DLTooley]

Maybe a glass faced locking bulletin board? I am recalling ones at school.

 

[SoulRaven]

As I recall I got it at Advance Auto Parts.  The old 1995 paint was rubbed by the suction cups.  It was seriously oxidized so anything would leave a mark.  I think a fresh waxing might be enough to not leave a mark.  After 2 years with the ladder on the rack the four circles almost disappeared after a quick rubbing with a rag.

Thanks!

 

[SoulRaven]

I think I missed some information, possibly posted in another thread.

Why exactly does the foldable panel need to be on the roof while you are driving?

You didn't mention a separate battery or 'power pack'.

If you do have one and need to charge it, can't it be charged while driving from the vehicle electrical system?

Or is this folding panel kit intended to keep the engine battery topped-up when camping? If so, the folding panels wont be needed when driving the vehicle.

There is a 50 Ah AGM deep cycle battery on the passenger floor.  Wasn't thinking of keeping the engine battery topped off.

 

[SoulRaven]

I don’t think it is doable unless you modify the plywood idea with a glass top sandwiching the foldable panel. That could meet your criteria but it is likely cheaper and definitely simpler to mount traditional panels on a rack which you will need anyway.

For just charging while driving the vehicle alternator solution is better than flexible panels.

I’d start with that and add rigid panels when I expanded the system.

See this is why I posted the challenge.  You thought of sandwiching the panel between glass and something else which is thinking outside the box!