self builds

[jeanontheroad]

OK. Not trying to be confrontational or critical. I just don't get it.

Many of you will buy some poor, sad TT or van and pour years of money and sweat into rebuilding it, all the time paying rent, utilities, renter's insurance, etc. Some of you do beautiful work, some not so much.

Why do people prefer to do this rather than buying a newer model in better condition that already is set up for living? I don't mean run out and buy a brand new Roadtrek, but I see so many good used vehicles out there for decent prices that one could park at a local CG and pay off in a year or two while actually living the lifestyle, maybe making a tweak here or there, but not completely rebuilding the thing!

I know there are some here who are on half a shoestring and they have no choice. But I don't know why the others put themselves thru that.

 

[nwprimo]

Custom building is half the fun. I wouldnt personally buy anything with mechanical issues. But designing and building your own custom rig the way YOU want it to be is 100x better than a cookie cutter conversion. Its a hobby and gives you something to be proud of and talk about.

 

[Luisafernandes]

In my case I bought a brand new chevy cargo van, and I've spent a few months now, working mainly on weekends building the inside. I don't know exactly how much I spent but it wasn't thousands, maybe one or two thousand, with the fantastic vent being the biggest single cost.
Personally I would love something bigger where I could stand up and move around some. But then I wouldn't be able to park where I park, mainly in populated areas near where I work. Also the cost of buying something like you mentioned would cost me more without the benefit of stealth.
In the future when I get closer to retiring I might consider something bigger and already done. Then again I might just like what I built and keep it. Time will tell.
But even if I end up buying something new I'll always think of ways to make it better by building stuff. I guess that's what I do. I did that when I had the house, I'm doing it now and I'll continue to do it wherever, however I live.
I kind of agree with you in not understanding why people buy something rundown, only to spend thousands building it. I guess there might be two reasons: one- they like doing so. Two- they may not be able to afford something better for one reason or another, like you mentioned.
Either way, I agree with you, but I can see why someone would buy something old instead of new. : )

 

[Van-Tramp]

Honestly, I really enjoy the planning and building process. My Mother and I have gone through a few trailers for her (that I tow behind my van when we trip together) and BY FAR the most enjoyable one is the one we have rebuilt from scratch. Sure it is not as luxurious as the others and it even cost more over time, but *creating* something has value in life.

My situation allows me to "buy & build" as I have numerous places (family) where I can park for long periods and do the work. Others may not have that so building is not an easy option. Although, with the proper tools, you can easily complete a build while boondocking in the desert.

But, to better answer your question; I believe the primary reason is up-front-cost. I got my van for $3000 and have probably spent another $500-800 in 3 builds spread out over 4+ years... round that up to $4000 total for arguments sake. You simply can not get a well maintained older Class-B for that amount. In fact, I was just looking at a 1990 Dodge Roadtek (equal to mine but a true B) and it was almost $7000 and the layout would not have worked as well as the one I have in my van. Surely, if I had the $7000 to start with, I'd have bought it over mine but I'm not so sure I wouldn't have gutted the thing and rebuilt it anyway, just because.



PS - I've bought a few vans/trailers and completed a build in them only to sell them at a [small] profit.

 

[akrvbob]

I bought a new cargo trailer instead of an old used Travel Trailer and it has so many advantages it's pathetic.

1) Weight, it's less than hal,f probably a third or less, any old, cheap travel trailer
2) Durability. A good aluminum cargo trailer will last for decades trouble-free! Any RV I could afford would be old and crap. Most of them are crap right of the show-room floor!! If they are quality, I can't afford them new or used.
3) Back-Roads ability. No normal RV can go where I can take this thing! Of course a few can, but for 10-20 times more money.
4) Customization. It's exactly what I want and nothing more.

Of course everyones needs and budgets are different, so just because this was perfect for me, it might be terrible for you.
Bob

 

[christine]

Why do a self build? A list of possible reasons:

1. The IKEA effect. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
2. Learning is fun.
3. Building is fun.
4. Pickiness and customization.
5. In need of a productive hobby, although one might not realize it at the time.
6. Love buying gadgets and tools.
7. Test one's creative, spatial, and mechanical skills.
8. You know how it's built, so you'll be able to fix things when they break.
9. Can be cheaper, depending on your taste.
10. Modularity.

I did it because no cookie cutter builder has yet built a model with under floor storage, a 27" sink, or a full size bed that converts to a full size chaise. And the reasons listed above.

 

[LeeRevell]

I don't fit in many campers. Too tall for standing in most and for the beds. Too fat for dinette booths. And many appliances are just too much for my needs. I like simplicity.

 

[decodancer]

It would be a total waste for me to buy something brand new, I'd end up tearing it apart to fit my needs. I took out the dinette in my TT and replaced it with a long desk. I spend hours off doing crafts, sewing, and using my computer on it. My van was kind of the same story. I needed a van to do dog grooming as well as to travel in, not likely any new vehicle would fit that requirement. I prefer older vehicles because I can actually do some of the repairs and there are less things to break like power windows. Spent $1500 on it and maybe another $1000 (stretched over one year) in tires, brakes, and interior. I love my van. I'd love to have a newer class C but can't afford it right now so why not be happy with what I have.

 

[Patrick46]

Ya know what....

I think these are ALL some very good answers!! ^^^

I'm definately onna those who cannot understand what the designers were thinking of when they built whatever rig I've got at the time. Campers, RV's, even my motorcycles. I simply have gotta modify them ALL to fit me and my needs. I've never had one I didn't.

Plus, being an artist, I enjoy the challenge of seeing how cool and/or functional I can make something, And if it's got good Ju-Ju when I'm done...all the better!


(I wish the designers would ask me for advice before they build these things!! It'd sure save alotta time & hassles!!)

 

[VanLifeCrisis]

up front cost just too much for me. not counting solar my last conversion was probably less than a grand thats including the foam mattress. van itself was 900 maybe another 300 put into it. solar around 600(bought with new rv too so not a factor)

 

[highdesertranger]

these are all good answers. especially bob's #2 and #3. here's my reasons I need a toy hauler type that can go off road. they really don't make a toy hauler that can go off road. at least not at a fair price. I would tear up a regular trailer and it wouldn't take long. another reason is they are either to wide or to narrow, this goes for cargo trailers too. plus like bob said the quality serious lacks. highdesertranger

 

[Sunny1]

The first thing I have done to the two trailers I have owned is completely remodeled them. Took out an uncomfortable sofa bed in the Aliner and built twin beds and a little nightstand with drawers. In the Casita, I turned the dinette into a twin bed and the existing double bed into a twin, and recovered the factory cushions with pretty upholstery and made valances to match. If everything inside wasn't fiberglass and built in, I would remodel the whole interior.

I've done hundreds of van plans, probably. My plans get rid of the wall to wall clutter and floor space hogs that come in almost all RVs. I have often wished I could buy a travel trailer from the factory with nothing but a bathroom and design the rest from there myself.

Quite simply, I love building projects and doing the projects is an immense source of satisfaction to me. And when I'm finished, my space suits me.

Eventually I hope to get a van that I can build the way I want it, but it won't happen anytime soon.

 

[Reducto]

The building process is half the fun for me too. I have always had some project brewing that involved building, fixing, or modifying something. I get to keep learning new things as I go. The latest was body work - I put new paint on the van and had a great time doing it. I'd never sanded down car paint, applied bondo, or used a paint gun before but felt comfortable doing it here because it was just an old $1500 van and it couldn't wind up being worse than it was before!

It's a mobile workshop - any time I'm in the mood to work on something I have a list of little projects. Redo shelving here, replace the TPS sensor, try some different way to insulate the windows, etc.

Even if there was something prebuilt for the same money I put into this I wouldn't be as happy with it. It wouldn't fit my needs as well and wouldn't allow me to make it my own. Other people are the opposite, and that's fine.

 

[PastTense]

"I see so many good used vehicles out there for decent prices"

I disagree with this. There are two characteristics that are important here that it is very difficult to find in the vehicles out there: fuel economy and stealth.

When fuel economy is 7-8 miles/gallon you feel you can't afford to travel anywhere. And those are the kinds of numbers you have with Class A and Class C motorhomes.

Stealth: Even if you plan to spend most of your time in state and national parks there are still going to be times when you don't--and RV parks are very expensive.

As to Class B vehicles like Roadtrek there are very few around and usually high priced.

 

[Van-Tramp]

I've done the math before on the matter of old car vs new car and MPG. The reality came out to be quite shocking.

My van at $3400 vs a newer (but still used) Class B @ $20,000. Yes my van gets worse MPG but only by 1-2 MPG over these new gas-powered vans. I would have to drive 20-30 years (!!!) at more than 10,000 miles per year to eventually make up the $17,000 difference in price.

Case in point; My actual numbers...
I bought my van (1989 Dodge) in March 2010 ($3,400). Since that date I have purchased 4626 gallons of fuel ($14,729) to travel the 57,901 miles at my average of 13 MPG. A total of $18,129 to purchase and drive for 4 years.

If I had bought a mid 90's Roadtrek for $10,000 (which gets about 15 MPG with the 318ci engine) and still drove the same 57,901 miles my total cost would be $22,275. I would have saved $2,454 in fuel by spending $6,600 more on the newer van. That is 10+ years of driving (at 13,000+ miles per year) just to make up the difference in the initial purchase cost, and I am still talking about some pretty old vans. Sure, I could have spent many thousands more to purchase a newer van to save only a few hundred a year in fuel... it's just not worth it.

With that said, if I had had the $10,000 laying around back in 2010, I would have bought the newer van. Basically, I would have bought the newest van my budget would have allowed without going into monthly payment debt hell, but MPG would not have been the deciding factor in that purchase.

Stealth? I don't see how the age of the vehicle matters in this. A vehicle that is poorly cared for will stand out no matter it's age. Care for it and keep it looking good and it goes less noticed. Actually, depending on where you plan to park, a 2010's van would stand out more than a 1990's van. Bring a brand spanking new Sprinter to rural mid-west, and you may as well have a blinking beacon mounted on the top. Newer does not equal stealth, although a trashed 1970's RV will stand out I agree.

 

[coolmom42]

Most RVs are very poorly constructed. The ones that are not, are in the 6-digit range.

I really dislike Dodge vehicles, which a lot of RVs are built on.

I have no issue with buying used cars and love getting a good deal. I do my research and shop for a good price on a vehicle that suits my needs. But the combination of original poor quality and multiple fairly complicated systems is just a recipe for maintenance nightmares. Combine that with owners who know little or nothing about the systems, and often make no effort to maintain them, and buying a used RV is WAY WAY more risky than buying a used car.

Right now there are lots of class B's on RVtrader in the same price range as a high-top van. But down in the $25K price range is either new with higher mileage, or older with low mileage. In almost every case, a person is looking at putting another $5K into the RV to get it in good shape. 6 tires, genny tune-up, lots of work re-sealing all roof penetrations, unattractive and worn interiors (because the materials are cheap to start with), battery replacement, and quite possibly significant mechanical issues with the vehicle, all add up to a lot of money and headaches.

Many RVs have energy-hog appliances, for example the furnace, that make it hard to live off the grid.

When a person does his/her own build, you can put in the exact systems you want, know that the work is done correctly, not have to fix anyone else's mess, and get the layout you want.

Now I would never put several thousand $$ into a van worth $2K with significant mechanical issues, and I do think some people have very poor judgement about their starting vehicles. But to each his/her own.

 

[minimotos95]

For me I wanted a specific van, a rare bird in the US, when I bought mine you only had the option of a 1987-90 2wd model, as of last year 1987 4x4 diesel models are finally legal to import but at $5k+ out of my budget and parts are hard enough to get for the 2wd gas.
So I bought the only one I could find, an 87 with a knocking engine on the cheap and local. I still haven't rebuilt the motor because every time I have the money I wind up buying something else before I start working on it(I blame motorcycles!) Luckily one of my bikes is for sale and when it sells I will have some self control, hopefully.

I've been living in it unconverted now for 6 months and that really made me realize what I need and don't. I could never be happy with a factory conversion or class B.

 

[Patrick46]

I wind up buying something else before I start working on it (I blame motorcycles!)

You say this like it's a bad thing!!

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's in my blood When I was a boy, my dad bought an old (1948?) 14' painted canvas over wood travel trailer and proceded to fix it up. Some of my fondest memories as a boy were 'helping' my dad build that trailer. He and my mom took us kids all over the country in that thing.

Fast forward - After having been an avid backpacker/ tent camper all my adult life, I finally decided (at 65) that sleeping on the ground was not as much fun as it used to be. So, I bought a 1977 FWC Grandby pop up pickup camper and proceeded to gut and rebuild the interior. After having worked with metal all my career, I find my first foray into cabinetmaking very enjoyable. After living in it this winter, I will probably redo half of it

-- Spiff

 

[66788]

Most RVs are very poorly constructed. The ones that are not, are in the 6-digit range.

I really dislike Dodge vehicles, which a lot of RVs are built on.

I have no issue with buying used cars and love getting a good deal. I do my research and shop for a good price on a vehicle that suits my needs. But the combination of original poor quality and multiple fairly complicated systems is just a recipe for maintenance nightmares. Combine that with owners who know little or nothing about the systems, and often make no effort to maintain them, and buying a used RV is WAY WAY more risky than buying a used car.

Right now there are lots of class B's on RVtrader in the same price range as a high-top van. But down in the $25K price range is either new with higher mileage, or older with low mileage. In almost every case, a person is looking at putting another $5K into the RV to get it in good shape. 6 tires, genny tune-up, lots of work re-sealing all roof penetrations, unattractive and worn interiors (because the materials are cheap to start with), battery replacement, and quite possibly significant mechanical issues with the vehicle, all add up to a lot of money and headaches.

Many RVs have energy-hog appliances, for example the furnace, that make it hard to live off the grid.

When a person does his/her own build, you can put in the exact systems you want, know that the work is done correctly, not have to fix anyone else's mess, and get the layout you want.

Now I would never put several thousand $$ into a van worth $2K with significant mechanical issues, and I do think some people have very poor judgement about their starting vehicles. But to each his/her own.

Hey Bob, where's the thumbs down button?