RVers trash left behind........

[djpotts2554]

I, as many of you with this forum; love the opportunity to spend a couple weeks camping absolutely free in different locations throughout the United States. With such a privilege as this, why would anyone NOT want to "Pack In/Pack Out to preserve this entitlement we long for??

I have first, second, third..... accounts of seeing people being so frickin' lazy to pick up after themselves. In their opinion the next guy will pick it up OR I'll never be back here to worry about the trash I left. The Forest Service will have no option but to close these sites down because lack of funds to constantly clean up after the slackers which leave a mess.  

                            Please, please.... help to preserve our awesome FREE campsites.

 

[LoupGarou]

Illegal dumping is typically done by the locals, believe it or not.

There’s two classifications of long term campers. Recreational and Non-Recreational. The former being Boondockers, the latter being Squatters.

 

[A Savage Adventure]

And some people are just self-important and don't care about anyone but themselves. I see it every single day when I drive. I see what look like drunk drivers, weaving all over the road. Not going when the light turns green. Switching into my lane and nearly hitting me. Then I realize, they're texting while driving.

It's illegal in most states. Yet I see at least a dozen people every day doing it. Despite all the ad campaigns like, "It Can Wait" and all the news of people getting killed by drivers texting, they still do it. And when I catch them and point it out, they just keep doing it.

It's the same with the trash. Even if you caught them doing it and said something, they wouldn't care. I've watched people throw trash out their window while driving. I've watched people in parking lots get back into their car and empty their ash tray outside the door before leaving. I've seen people set other trash along side their car before pulling out of a parking space. They're shameless, don't care and we're never going to change people like that. Sad, but true.

 

[John61CT]

Many if not most people lie & steal if they think they won't be caught, some make/deal drugs, assault, rob, even murder.

Refraining from littering is asking a bit much for these folks, whether local or nomads.

Nothing will stop them but surveillance and threat of force,

much less preaching to the converted online.

 

[A Savage Adventure]

Totally agree John. It sounds so cynical or even pessimistic, but I am a realist. That's the nature of this type of person.

As for me, depending on the type of trash I come across I will pick up things I find and properly discard them, especially if they're dangerous, such as nails / screws I seem to find in parking lots.

 

[Stuck]

Chris;

The trash problem gets worse as you go east of the Rockies, and the texting is worst in the deep south. In both cases I think there is a cure - simple, painful enforcement of existing laws.

Oregon was the first to adopt strict DUI laws, the first mandatory deposit on soda bottles, and the first to put litterbugs in jail. Oregon is clean.

We have litter laws, texting laws, speed limits, and drunk driving laws here in GA. They don't work because they aren't consistently enforced. The communities don't want them enforced.

Enforcement works.

And I concur with LoupGarou. Locals in rural areas are the biggest litterbugs.

 

[ZoNiE]

We were camping in the forest a few weeks ago on the Mogollon Rim. Had a crappy spot. Was going to move to the space next to us when the campers left, (After they packed up but left their trailer blocking the space all day) but was beat to it by partiers from the local town. They got there Saturday evening, partied all night, left Sunday morning. I went over there to put some chairs and a table to hold the spot so I could move the rig. Changed my mind when I got there. You could see all the spots where the two women squatted to pee. Little piss craters and loose TP. They left a bucket of shit on the fire ring, and a bag of trash, and some loose trash.

In the same area, people who were at least thoughtful enough to bag their trash and take it with them all left it piled by the big sign that said "pack out your trash". There was a dumpster 2 miles away ($3 per bag fee) that they ignored.

There are also dozens of bags of shit next to trees under rocks. There is a vault toilet...

I hate litterbugs. I wish they would charge for this area and use the funds to pay for a host and a dumpster.

 

[Bobflhtc]

I pick up when I move to a new camping spot and I always manage to find a place to legally dump trash. I feels good to leave it better than when I found it.

 

[B and C]

Broken glass is the worst. Seems people like to use beer bottles for target practice and then won't pick up the pieces. We were camped just out of Cottonwood, AZ up on the mesa and in the morning it looked like a diamond mine. Spent several hours picking up the glass around our spot. As we were finishing filling the second bag, a ranger came by to tell us of the two week limit and said they don't haul trash. After seeing the second bag of trash and after our talk, he loaded both bags in the back of his truck to haul off. Nice older guy. I guess he could see we were in a class B and really didn't have a good way to haul or he was just being nice to us. Dunno, but rangers can be nice too if you are friendly and look to be good stewards of the land.

 

[toilfreelife]

You're right, it's amazing to me how inconsiderate many, many are in our human society. Just wanted to mention though, you referred blm land and such as privilege to camp for free. If this isn't a human 'RIGHT" I don't know what is. Everything, including EVERYTHING you and I are is a gift from (whatever you want to call it) the ultimate source.  To make everything a thing of purchase is just the stunning arrogance of human beings to usurp everything that's not ultimately theirs for their own monetary enrichment.   Just sayin'.   Rich

PS, Idea, group together to clean these places, and put up inconspicuous "happy" signs to remind the #$^%&*% type people to get a clue.

 

[John61CT]

The only rights we actually have are those enforced by those with money & power, as in guns.

All the rest is wishful idealism.

We don't even have the unrestricted right to van-dwell or permanently camp on the land we own in 99% of jurisdictions.

When the government is the owner, that means more restrictions not less.

And as this thread shows, that's usually a good thing for rule-abiding citizens, at least some level of control over the Mad Max types most humans turn into when given total "freedom".

 

[lenny flank]

Sadly, many people are all gung-ho about THEIR "rightz!!!!", but don't give a shit about anyone ELSE'S.

 

[rm.w/aview]

"djpotts2554"
people being so frickin' lazy to pick up after themselves. In their opinion the next guy will pick it up OR I'll never be back here to worry about the trash I left. .  
 "A Savage Adventure"
And some people are just self-important and don't care about anyone but themselves. . Even if you caught them doing it and said something, they wouldn't care.
"altruisticvanbuild"
You're right, it's amazing to me how inconsiderate many, many are in our human society.

This sums it up well

 

[1st Chippewa]

I share everyone's concerns, emphasize, understand, and am also aware of such people who have no regard for the Land that sustains life, and provides pleasure, substance,shelter and Peace. Right now, I live next door to Squatters who have no respect for Law, nor care if they end up in jail, pay fines later or whatever: They, are what they are and no more rules, Law Enforcement, etc., will change them. Adding more Laws, Law Enforcement to the situation only puts us all in even another difficult situation: If there is no budget to keep Law Enforcement , or caregivers of the land hired, the land is often times shut down and closed up to all. Native Americans will impose restrictions etc., More Law , and government oversight often backfires ie , more regulations and ultimately fees, taxes, etc., and loss of the Freedom we now enjoy.
What to do?
First accept the fact that there are Humans who are dirtier than your own pets, and wildlife; Second, we are needed as "The Care Givers " of the Land". Maybe this is part of our calling to the Land and love for its natural state. I think we all know and have seen some Humans to be the most disrespectful, filthy, uncaring, takers-never giving back, users and abusers of nature, other people, and all that is easily taken advantage of. Laws are for the Law abiding,not the Lawless.
I for one will simply for the good of the Land and those who believe as I regarding its care , will simply , humbly, clean up the filth other humans leave behind: Will I get thanks and rewards, and recognition by the ones who cause this mess? No! They don't care. Do I need thier appreciation? No. But I know ,even by this thread of comments, that many like me outnumber those who are the "Users and Abusers" of the Land. It only takes a few minutes to clean up after the pigs mess.
Second : Keep in mind that many of these people have problems with drugs, apathy, no understanding or enlightenment of what they do; So, if and when there is opportunity teach by example ie ., Ask them "Do you want help in cleaning up?" We are better off being good teachers, and Stewards of the Land by actively accepting the responsibility of keeping it clean whether its our filth or another's who don't care. No more Laws will change the Lawless ; It will only create more limits on us. Its a culture of preservation that needs to be spread and taught to these who may never have been taught to be clean, and caregivers, concern for others, and the Land. Its this culture of Preservation VS Apathy and Ignorance that we are wiser and preserve, like a battle must stand ready to give care to the Land. These people who don't care, will never police themselves, and having more enforcement and regulations only creates limits on us as well. I hope I did not offend anyone: Peace and Meegwetch to all.

 

[rvwandering]

I moved some off topics posts into another thread - Liquidating possessions

 

[John61CT]

Peace and Meegwetch to all.

And to you.

Well put, fully agree