Running Mr. Heater with 20# tank - need feedback

[VanTrekker]

<p>I'm kind of nervous about refilling the small propane bottles.&nbsp; I wanted to run another idea past ya'll...<br /><br /><img rel="lightbox" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TcF-3lmlA2g/UMV7UD820nI/AAAAAAAAE-4/gb-W37-YYh0/s320/Van+Layout+2.jpg" class="bbc_img" /><br /><br /><br />I'm thinking about getting a 5 foot Mr. Heater hose (and fuel filter)&nbsp;that I can run from the heater toward the rear of the van...&nbsp; It might be a 4.5 foot distance between the two.&nbsp; This diagram shows the proposed hose in red.&nbsp; One of the doors is marked in green.&nbsp; The other is where the yellow "buddy" is mounted.<br /><br />I am not sure if I can squeeze the bottle in the storage compartment (desk) between the bed and kitchenette.&nbsp; If I can, it would be out of sight.&nbsp; <img src="/images/boards/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" align="absmiddle"></p><p><br />The vast majority of the hose would be concealed&nbsp;when in use (100% concealable when not in use during the summer)&nbsp;</p><p>Of course, I would have the tank valve&nbsp;turned off when not in use.<br /><br />Is this a better idea than refilling propane bottles?&nbsp; Is it more scary?&nbsp;&nbsp; Please weigh in.<br /><br />Thanks!</p><p>Brad / V.T.</p>

 

[wrcsixeight]

What is the concern, the hose being damaged, or the 20 lb propane tank not being secured?<br /><br />Or a little of both? &nbsp;I'd think those concerns could be largely mitigated with &nbsp;sufficient precautions.<br /><br />Refilling the green tanks more than once would have me more concerned.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[VanTrekker]

I was most worried about the hose being damaged.&nbsp; With how I plan to route it, I think it will be pretty safe... probably safer than messing with refilled 1 pound bottles... And there would be no waking up and having to swap spin-ons...

 

[peacetara]

There was a thread a while ago that I started about propane safety, lots of great things on that thread.&nbsp; This is what I remember from it:<br /><br />1) green "1lb" bottles are safe but very expensive.<br /><br />2) Refilling them more than 1 or maybe 2 times is asking for trouble, and you have to have special adapters and stuff to refill them.&nbsp; People refill them with success more times than that.<br /><br />3) 20lb bottles are cheaper than the 5 and 3lb bottles by about half.<br /><br />4) the problem with 20lb bottles, if something bad happened, that's a LOT of gas to make even more bad things happen.<br /><br />5) pressure differences happen with temperature differences, so don't fill the tank and store the tank in vastly different temperatures, as bad things could happen.<br /><br />6) Perhaps the safest way to handle 20lb bottles is to just not fill them 'full'. say 1/2 full might be more sane.<br /><br />7) all in all, if you treat all of it with the respect it deserves, chances are you can be very safe, and not run into problems.<br /><br />(Not in any particular order).<br /><br />With Love,<br />Tara

 

[Les H]

Hey VT, both my bus and my tiny travel trailer have a buddy connected to a 20 lb tank. In the bus, its in a cabinent beside the sink, and in the travel trailer it replaced the non functioning furnace, plumbed into the origional trailer tanks on the tounge . FAR cheaper than the 1 lb disposables. There are several videos on you tube about refilling the 1 lb tanks, and most involve putting the small tank in a freezer for 20 min or so. Not so bad at a house, but a pain on the road. I dont bother, even with my propane plumbing torches. Wall mart has a 20 lb fuel guage for 9.99, a "T" adapter that lets you run a buddy and a stove off the same tank for around 20.00 and a 20 lb tank to 1 lb tank adapter for arond 15.00. I carry all of them with me at all times, hey, ya never know what you will run into. I did all my own plumbing work in the van and trailer because im comfortable with it, and im certified. If your not comfortable, no biggie, ask a propane retailer to do the work, better safe than sorry.And safe is the name of the game with propane.

 

[wandering mike]

Mr. Heater recommends keeping the large tank outside. &nbsp;After thinking it through, I am guessing it is because as peacetara points out, that is a lot of gas if it leaks and is confined to the van or RV. &nbsp;Enough to make a really big "boom". &nbsp;With a one pound tank, the propane probably&nbsp;dissipates&nbsp;enough to have too much air in the fuel/air mixture to explode. &nbsp;Again, I am not an engineer or anything so your mileage (or explosion) may vary and maybe there is an engineer that can explain it better. &nbsp;<br /><br />If you do get the hose and tank (I have a 10 lb external tank and they make a 5 lb one too), I would get the<a href="http://www.climatedoctors.com/Mr-He...gdftrk=gdfV25437_a_7c1839_a_7c7233_a_7cMRHE19" rel="nofollow"> "plasticiser free" version</a>&nbsp;of the hose discussed in another thread that I can't find at the moment. &nbsp;I think it is a green hose. &nbsp;When I use the external tank, I keep the tank outside. &nbsp;(and when I refill the 1 lb bottles, I do that outside too).<br /><br /><br />

 

[bk2valve]

Brad, If you follow the directions I posted on your other thread, you can apparently refill the 1 pounders many many times before there is a problem. The man who gave the demo at the RTR refills about 10 bottles every couple of weeks and has never had a problem...he has an invalid spouse and she needs the buddy heater wherever she is sitting in their 5th wheel so she uses them a lot.<br /><br />As far as keeping a bottle inside, you are going to have to go far to get anyone to reccommend it not knowing the level of someone elses common sense.<br /><br />That said, I keep one inside and know of about four other vandwellers who do as well including our illustrious forum founder Bobby W. You really need to be careful though and know you are going against the grain of many to do so and you are on your own when you do it.<br /><br />The way I do it......and I am NOT suggesting you do it......is to have a hose made up by a professional LPG person or company. Coleman sells one in most sporting good stores also. I had one made up for my purposes by my local LPG dealer in my home town. Mostly because I wanted a 'T'or 'Y' installed so I could run my stove and my heater off one main hose. If I remember right including all the brass fittings it cost me $75 to have made.<br /><br />I use a gallon size bulk propane tank due to room and also since I already owned it for another purpose. It is my responsibility to attach it right and to keep it turned off unless I am using the appliances. I carry a small bottle with soapy water to spray on the fittings to make sure there are no leaks and I do it every time I remember to...or when I change or add oil, etc. to my van....<br /><br />Your call completely but some of us have success with it and also realize the danger and do what we need to to minimize it....kinda like riding a motorcycle...<br />As usual YMMV or as Mike says, YEMV...<img rel="lightbox" src="/images/boards/smilies/eek.gif" class="bbc_img" /><br />Bri

 

[wandering mike]

Brian, the gallon size sounds like a nice size. &nbsp;About 4 of the little bottles it would seem. &nbsp;I think for me, I could be careful enough to have that inside.

 

[Guest]

<p>I'm kind of nervous about refilling the small propane bottles.&nbsp; I wanted to run another idea past ya'll...<br /><br /><img rel="lightbox" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-TcF-3lmlA2g/UMV7UD820nI/AAAAAAAAE-4/gb-W37-YYh0/s320/Van+Layout+2.jpg" class="bbc_img" /><br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />What is the width of the bed in this diagram?<br /><br /></p>

 

[peacetara]

I have a 20lb tank as well.&nbsp; I ask the filler people to only fill it 1/2 full, which gets me some weird looks, but I feel safer that way.<br /><br />Someday, I hope to come across a 3 or 5 lb tank cheap, just to save space, until then, I'm happy with my 20lb tank.<br /><br />With Love,<br />Tara

 

[wrcsixeight]

Back when I was spending a lot of time in Baja, &nbsp;I found that I was asking to buy other camper's green bottles when they were leaving, and was still running out, and I only use propane for cooking. &nbsp;While some stores down there did sell the bottles, they were about 6 to 10 dollars each.<br /><br />Thankfully I carry a MSR multifuel stove, and was just filling the tank by disconnecting &nbsp;my van's fuel filter and letting the fuel pump fill it up. But cooking over unleaded fuel is dirty and smelly and of course has to be done outside the van. &nbsp;Baja is so windy that this option is not always practical.<br /><br /><br />Basically I figured I had the space underneath for a propane tank, but it has to be one designed to be used horizontally, and they were $$$. &nbsp;Also refilling promised to be a hassle.<br /><br />But then the areas I liked to camp in Baja was infiltrated by meth amphetamine, good people turned into liars and thieves, and I quit going down there, and continue with the easy obtainable but wasteful green bottles, one every 3 weeks or so on this side of the border.<br /><br />I always try to carry a full bottle to have ready, but would still enjoy having a better, less wasteful less expensive source, especially if I were to ever locate to an area where a heater is necessary.

 

[bk2valve]

Mike, I use the stove and/or the heater very lightly, so the gallon lasts me quite a while...I do carry a couple full 1 pounders and my backup heat sourse is a good sleeping bag and clothes and my backup stoves are a collapsible outdoor fire box and an alcohol stove and quart of alcohol...always carried....and soon to be, a folding homemade sun oven...if I get to it before I leave....<br />Bri

 

[sl1966]

This might sacrifice some stealth but you could mount it outside behind one of the back doors in some sort of secure cage. I've seen some custom metal cages on lunch trucks that conceal the LP tank as well as portable generators. Also, some places have a minimum gallon refill which could be problematic with smaller tanks. As for your worry about possible leaks. I would get a detector installed since there's really is no sense in running that kind of risk with your life.&nbsp;<br /><br />

 

[VanTrekker]

To answer one question - the bed is a twin mattress.&nbsp; The diagram is not to scale.<br /><br />Thanks for the notes, folks.&nbsp; I've decided to hold off on refilling the bottles till I need them, mainly for cooking or the hot water heater.<br /><br />Things are up and running with the 20 pound tank (for the winter)<br /><br />In the meantime I bought a 10 foot Mr. Heater hose (the "non plasticizer" kind that does not require a fuel filter).&nbsp; I punched two holes in the kitchenette counter, one near the heater and one near the tank, then ran the hose through the cabinette and holes.&nbsp; <br /><br /><img rel="lightbox" src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-1A_GLzhN5LY/UMY4Y7plUUI/AAAAAAAAFAg/DqoZDJ_c1Uc/h120/Bushing.jpg" class="bbc_img" /><br /><br /><br />In each of the two holes I inserted a rubber grommet / bushing.&nbsp; They are&nbsp;actually some kind of a pipe adapter and snap right into the hole.&nbsp; They are very large and thick (1.5 inches in diameter with a good 3/8" inch thickness between the inside hole and outside edge.&nbsp; The bushings also stick through the full depth. This ensures that the hose will not rub on wood edges&nbsp;and rupture.&nbsp; The hose can be moved in and out as needed.<br /><br />At the moment the temp is 76 degrees in the van, 25 degrees outside.&nbsp; With this big tank I should be able to get 100+ hours of heating on low.&nbsp; The next step is to strap the tank in place.&nbsp; So far, so good!&nbsp; It's comfy in here!&nbsp; Come spring time, the tank will be stored in a shed.&nbsp; The hose will remain in place or I could pull it out and store it till next year.

 

[OverTheTopCargoTrailer]

Just remember that when LEO stops &amp; questions you about refilling the 1 lb bottles , that you can safely demonstrate to him how to refill them , so he only writes you up for 1/2 of the $10,000 fine.&nbsp;<br><br>So be careful what you BLAB about if you have a stack of full 1 lb &nbsp;laying about.<img src="/images/boards/smilies/wink.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/tongue.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/tongue.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><img src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/rofl.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><br><br><img src="/images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img"><img src="/images/boards/smilies/sneaky.gif" class="emoticon bbc_img">

 

[Simran]

Brad,<br>I know this is an older post but I wanted to add this link from walMart. This is a Mr Heater brand heater with&nbsp; built in Oxygen sensor &amp; self contained 20# bottle of propane. This is rated for indoor use.<br>Now I know there are those of you that would not feel comfy with a propane bottle in your van no matter what. This post is not for you. This is for those riding the fence.<br>Here is an example of a stove designed for indoor use that contains a 20# propane bottle inside it.<br>A little big for a van IMHO, but it shows as an example that these propane tanks are not inherently dangerous in ones living quarters providing precautions are taken.<br><br>http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mr.-Heate...iant-Propane-Heater/21714347?findingMethod=rr<br><br>Gus<br><br>

 

[ccbreder]

The "20" lb tanks are available for exchange at supermarkets, hardware stores home-depo, lowes and others. Mostly here in SJ about 18.00. These are the legal new fill regulated valves and you don't have to worry about the safety. (three sided valve handle)<br>Don't keep propane (heaver than air) were the gas is not vented to the outside. A van makes a large incinerator.

 

[Rob S.]

The best way to stay warm in winter is to dress right...it cuts down on the explosions!

 

[highdesertranger]

those exchange places charge around 2x the cost the propane.&nbsp; no deal for me.&nbsp; highdesertranger

 

[wagoneer]

Rob S has a very good point the life style we choose is not the walk down the hall on your persian carpet and turn the t-stat higher. I cannot emphasize the right clothing choices enough. Moreno Wool Irish sweaters/blankets see them on a regular basis at the flea and ignore the dry clean only bull. soak and lay in the sun (if it,s out). I washed my "dry clean only" ARMANI suit for gods sake. looked better/different without the small of the chemicals.