Renogy Eclipse panels?

[tripper]

Sorry about the double post, new info at the bottom

Renogy Eclipse panels are excellent panels, and a great company, however this information about them putting out any useable wattage during dusk and moonlight is false.

No solar panel will pull any useful amount of energy from moonlight or  dusk. Eclipse panels only advantage is they are physically smaller by one row compared to their standard line due to their having better efficiency solar cells. This means you may be able to put these in areas that the slightly larger standard ones wont fit. They still only produce 100 watts of power, the same as the larger standard 100 watt panels.

The reason panels do not output power in moonlight is as follows:

Regarding the power the SUN puts out "The amount of solar energy that hits the Earth amounts to approximately 1,368 watts per square meter, and solar panels are designed to work with this level of energy

Regarding the amount of energy the MOON puts out "This corresponds to an energy of approximately 0.0006 watts per square meter. This is approximately 2.3 million times smaller than the energy produced during the day by sunlight"


Please refer to the following reading
Is Moonlight Strong Enough to Power Solar Panels?

Additionally I have owned both types of Renogys and others, there is no usable power output without sunlight. You might get a tiny (couple of watts) bit of power if parked under very bright lighting. Your panels may show a small amount of voltage from moonlight, but won't supply any usable current.

Eclipse panel is about 800 square inches = about 1/2 square meter
Sunlight 1368 watts per square meter = about 684 watts hitting the Eclipse panel
684 watts times 18% efficiency is about 125 watts
This is simplified math so other inefficiencies aren't included
So daylight max would be 125 watts in sunlight

Moonlight 0.0006 watts per square meter = 0.0003 watts hitting the Eclipse panel
0.0003 watts times 18% efficiency = 0.000054 watts in moonlight
So moonlight max is 54 microwatts

It is impossible for a solar panel to put out any useable current in moonlight.

There are other sources that do claim higher number for moonlight, such as a ratio of 345:1 meaning a 345 watt solar panel can put out 1 watt in full moonlight, still not really useable but more in line with what I see on my own system (1-3 watts)

 

[GotSmart]

What I am experiencing is not what you are cut and pasting.

 

[John61CT]

LOL, alternative facts, welcome to our wonderful new post-truth world.

Some things are not matters of opinion.

All it takes is an ammeter on a well-depleted battery, should be easy for someone in the business to verify.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

When I started this thread I thought the efficiency numbers had something to do with performance of the panel. Now that I understand that number is basically what leads to the difference in size of panels all equalling 100W, I'm less concerned about that.

Also, I've decided I'm just going to get a 400W system from the start. I think that's overkill for my usage, but I think solar over built for your needs is exactly where you want to be. I was going to wait for Renogy's next 15% off sale but I'm getting impatient and I have a 10% coupon, so I expect to order within the next couple weeks.

I like the idea of having multiple panels instead of one large one. And, I think my cross rails are a little too narrow for that 65" panel anyway.

We usually like to park facing west so we can enjoy the sunrise without actually getting out of bed that early. So my next task is to figure out how I may want to mount my panels so that they can both tilt and avoid shading from the cargo rack and MaxxFan. Because I expect this system to be oversized for our usage, I'm not going to worry too much about the absolute best angle at all times of the day, but simply something better than flat.

Lots of help and good ideas in this thread. Thanks a bunch.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Because I expect this system to be oversized for our usage, I'm not going to worry too much about the absolute best angle at all times of the day, but simply something better than flat.

Lots of help and good ideas in this thread. Thanks a bunch.

Ah, grasshoppah, you are close to reaching solar nirvana.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

What I am experiencing is not what you are cut and pasting.

To be clear, what are you experiencing? Do you see charging amps under moonlight? I'd be interested in seeing some meter readings that show what's happening, it could be very interesting.

 

[jimindenver]

I use to tell people so you think you know your needs, how much solar and battery? Well good, now double it. People are always very conservative with their numbers AND once they have power, they start using more.

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

Yeah, that's pretty much how I started. I think ultimately my desire for the series/parallel circuit is was made me decide to just jump in at 400W. Oh well, my batteries will thank me for it.

And I just pulled the trigger and placed my order. I'm excited to get to work on this!

 

[HumbleBeginnings]

My theoretical Voc and current mentioned in a previous post would be 40Voc and 10A. So, when I put an inline fuse to protect my charge controller, should I size it for the controller capacity? That's 40A, although it looks like the biggest inline fuse Renogy sells is 30A. But that's also way more than I would expect from my panels, so would it make more sense to size to my expected panel generation? Maybe 15A-20A?

 

[tripper]

I use to tell people so you think you know your needs, how much solar and battery? Well good, now double it. People are always very conservative with their numbers AND once they have power, they start using more.

Ha yes I started with 100 watts and was sure that was all I would ever need. After frying some batteries with undercharging/overuse I really got tired of always monitoring battery levels. Then I found out I could use microwaves, induction cooktops, 12v fridges, tv, blu ray player, and charge  my ebike battery. So I just went ahead and put as much as I could on my RV and I totally love it. Now with the solar I have I have every luxury of home all the time.

Biggest mistake is basing summertime AZ as baseline for panels, when really should be using Oregon in the winter as a baseline for how much solar is needed.

 

[tripper]

My theoretical Voc and current mentioned in a previous post would be 40Voc and 10A. So, when I put an inline fuse to protect my charge controller, should I size it for the controller capacity? That's 40A, although it looks like the biggest inline fuse Renogy sells is 30A. But that's also way more than I would expect from my panels, so would it make more sense to size to my expected panel generation? Maybe 15A-20A?

Yes you are going to want to make the inline fuse a bit larger than what you are using, you want it to blow if there is a short to your rigs power somehow. Your panels in series will never exceed that 10Amps so a 15A will handle the normal current and blow appropriately if something bad happens.

 

[tripper]

When I started this thread I thought the efficiency numbers had something to do with performance of the panel. Now that I understand that number is basically what leads to the difference in size of panels all equalling 100W, I'm less concerned about that.

Also, I've decided I'm just going to get a 400W system from the start. I think that's overkill for my usage, but I think solar over built for your needs is exactly where you want to be. I was going to wait for Renogy's next 15% off sale but I'm getting impatient and I have a 10% coupon, so I expect to order within the next couple weeks.

I like the idea of having multiple panels instead of one large one. And, I think my cross rails are a little too narrow for that 65" panel anyway.

We usually like to park facing west so we can enjoy the sunrise without actually getting out of bed that early. So my next task is to figure out how I may want to mount my panels so that they can both tilt and avoid shading from the cargo rack and MaxxFan. Because I expect this system to be oversized for our usage, I'm not going to worry too much about the absolute best angle at all times of the day, but simply something better than flat.

Lots of help and good ideas in this thread. Thanks a bunch.

With tilt panels your really don't have to worry about optimizing the angle throughout the day, the most important use is catching the low angle the last few hours during wintertime. You can really double the amount of power received the last few hours with having them tilted and extend useable light about an hour.

You will be happy with 400 watts, that really seems to be the sweet spot to be able to do almost anything with your rig.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Well I thought my post was funny but oh yeah...no joking allowed.

:huh:

 

[John61CT]

Regarding 12V AGM from Universal Power. I got the specs from the mfg for model UB121100 (aka D5751). These are also relabeled as "VMAX".

They say those batts are only rated for maximum 500 cycles at 50% DoD,  way less if you go any deeper.

Not what I would call true deep cycling, probably not much better than the Wallyworld so-called pseudo deep-cycles, IMO fraudulently labelled.

And that's under ideal lab conditions, which are never matched by real-world use. As well as published by a mfg not yet proven over decades to be trustworthy, like Deka, Odyssey, Lifeline and Northstar, in an industry dominated here by scamming marketeers.

In general I'd say ordering batteries online is not the way to go for quality deep cycle.

Shipping becomes such a huge proportion of a small lot purchase, in the end it is never "free", has to come at the expense of quality in the end.

Especially considering these ship all the way from Guangzhou/Shenzhen.

 

[VanKitten]

I started with 690 Watts of solar and 400AH lithium batteries.

But, just as Jim said...my wants have expanded greatly.

The biggest thing I learned...I can go straight from solar to discharge. Meaning, I can run A/C from the solar....I do not have to rely on the batteries to produce the power as long as I have enough solar and lots of sunshine. These days I tend to cook while the sun is up...my induction cook top doesn't even cause the batteries to hiccup...coming straight off the roof..

I plan to add another 600 watts of solar so I can run the A/C

Now..if I could just get water out of the desert air I could truely be off grid.

 

[jimindenver]

There is always going to be the "best" of everything. It is the easy way out when picking equipment just as it is the easiest way to suggest what is chosen. Neither has to work out what is really the best for the user, just brand baby it. How can either go wrong with the highest rated, most expensive gear out there? I will tell you how, because neither did their home work. Neither knows what is needed just that they can hold their head high while talking about what gear is failing.

Do any of the high dollar brand of battery NOT become damaged if they are abused or not taken care of? Is there something about them that makes it okay to have a controller that can not be set properly or is simply retarded in how it handles power? When batteries start failing the answer is always buy better but what about when the better batteries die? Is that when we start looking for the cause or just be bewildered because how can the best of everything possibly fail.

Out here I am not finding that it is a choice of high end gear, it is too little power coming in and a lack of education. Most would not benefit from better batteries, they would benefit from a extra panel or two.

So when recommending the best of everything, have a reason to recommend it besides the fact that it is the best. We tell people to not make decisions based on the lowest price, that is true for the highest price too.

 

[John61CT]

The Deka/Duracell **are** the cheapest designed for deep cycling per AH, that is my point. Very very far from "the best", just a minimum baseline.

And they're **great** for a first bank while learning how, or even if you just want to give up on taking decent care, willing to just replace your bank more frequently.

I would bet big bucks under any equal conditions, and **especially** being abused, they would last much longer than any Wallyworld 12V or UB/VMAX.

Maybe 2-3x longer, especially compared to SLA.

There are many **much** better brands, all the way up to Rolls/Surette at the top of the heap, but yes as you say, not worth the extra unless you know they will be coddled.

Now, when people say Trojan's T-105s are available locally in the same ballpark as the Duracell FLA GCs, maybe do that, not a big step up but IMO worth it say within 20%.

But anything less quality than those, you're wasting money, no matter how you treat them, because they're just not designed for deep cycling usage.

 

[C-Cat]

Now..if I could just get water out of the desert air I could truely be off grid.

Well, the future might already be here! http://www.businessinsider.com/zero-mass-solar-panels-water-from-air-launch-us-2017-12