Renogy Eclipse panels?

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HumbleBeginnings said:
I may have missed it, what was the advantage of multiple controllers? Is it just cheaper per controller, controller redundancy?

If the controller is inexpensive enough per watts output - another reason 1:1 works better with larger panels - then any shading on a given panel has zero impact on the other panels.

And besides just shading issues, each MPPT controller optimizes independently, greater output boost rather than having to compromise across the collection.

Different panel models bought at different times is not an issue.

Easy use of portable "suitcase" types away from the van, combined with permanent panels on the roof.

And yes, redundancy can be incorporated without having to carry spares, but I've only done that with cruising or liveaboard boats where getting replacements can take months, have to pay customs etc.

You then have to oversize the controllers vs panel wattage, which costs more.
 
ok let's stay on topic. JohnCT if you don't have the experience with the Eclipse Panels stop posting like you do. I am sure the OP doesn't want to hear it. highdesertranger
 
I have seen evidence of different panels reacting differently in varying light on identical set ups side by side. It is the reason I chose the panels I have of the panels I had access to. I would not assume a newer panel would or would not do anything based on past testing because in 5 years I have seen improvements in both types of panels. I expect the improvements to continue and you see this in the reduced footprint of the Eclipse panels. You see it again in the higher efficiency of the SunPower panels.

The assessment of Voc/Isc is correct for series and series parallel. I agree with series/parallel but wish to suggest that before you mount the panels, lay them out and try the different ways of wiring them to the controller. See what difference there is in output to the battery in the different configurations and see what happens if you shade a panel too. I would suggest seeing what happens if you tilted them but only if there is a possibility that you will do it. A tilted/tracking panel is worth nearly double what a flat mounted one is, maybe more in the low sun of the winter. Knowing just how much there is to be gained might drive you crazy. lol
 
It's crazy to me to think the angle could make that much of a difference vs a flat unshaded panel. I do think I'll do a setup in the driveway like you said. Having other people tell me about it just isn't the same as seeing it for myself. Thanks for the feedback, it helps me feel like I'm starting to understand this stuff.
 
I had not seen those on Amazon. That's pretty much exactly what I was going to try to make!

The 41" model I would need is $99... I'm pretty sure the aluminum angle, some bolts, and wing nuts could be sourced for a lot less than that.

Although, if I only needed 1 I would probably buy it for simplicity. But I need 4 and that adds up quick!
 
HumbleBeginnings said:
I do think I'll do a setup in the driveway like you said. Having other people tell me about it just isn't the same as seeing it for myself.

There is much to be gained from reading and talking, even possibly to those that are just googling the answers and regurgitating them back up here. That does not nor ever will hold a candle to push the button and see what happens, been there and done that. It will be well worth the effort to gain the practical knowledge.

My truck's panel is pointed east in the morning and standing near vertical for the low rising sun. Around 10 AM I lower it to a better angle for the mid day sun and back the truck up a few feet with the wheel turned. I will move the truck twice more through out the day and raise the panel back up around three as the sun is dropping.

The result is that that panel starts seeing light and producing power before the rooftop system wakes up. At 435 watts it has a peak that matches the flat mounted 750 watts in the winter high sun and it sees that peak before and after the roof can. All together the smaller tilting/tracking system is out producing the larger flat system. On cloudy days the extra power can mean the difference in running the generator or not.
 
jimindenver said:
 On cloudy days the extra power can mean the difference in running the generator or not.

Well I'm not planning on having a generator, so I better get to work on this tilting system! I'm planning to mount 4 x 100W on the roof by constructing something similar to what was linked above. Building it to tilt in one direction seems pretty easy. Tilting multiple possible directions could be possible too, but the question is how to I make it easy enough to adjust that I'm willing to mess with it multiple times a day.

Another driveway experiment.
 
jimindenver said:
My truck's panel is pointed east in the morning and standing near vertical for the low rising sun. Around 10 AM I lower it to a better angle for the mid day sun and back the truck up a few feet with the wheel turned. I will move the truck twice more through out the day and raise the panel back up around three as the sun is dropping.

Have you thought about installing motorized suspension hydraulics like the gangs, I mean, kids do?

You could push a button on a remote and tilt the whole truck to a 45 degree angle and gimbal the whole darn thing around as needed, and never start the engine!

Now THAT would get some attention!

:p
 
Just what we need more power robbing accesories! Don't give Jim any more reasons to get more panels!
 
On RV.net there is someone that uses door hinges and pins to be able to tilt in any direction. I likely would not adjust my trucks panel so often were I not able to reach it from the ground. On a parked rig the panels are generally tilted to the south in the best position or the mid day sun and left there. A smaller RV or van could track by moving a few feet at a time like I do with my truck without having to repack everything every time.

I have ran a number of concepts for lifting the panels mechanically through my head for a while now. Screw drive and hydraulic come to mind instantly but are complicated, heavy and prone to break down when you need it the most. Also at issue is getting the extension needed to stand it up as well as the strength to deal with winds. What I think may be doable is gas struts that are compressed in the closed position. A latch would hold them down and a strap would limit the tilt in the summer just as it could keep the panel from releasing on the road.
 
jimindenver said:
On a parked rig the panels are generally tilted to the south in the best position or the mid day sun and left there. 

Well, that was my plan until you got me thinking about going overboard!
 
As long as I have you thinking about the possibilities it is all good. I do not think anyone should duplicate my set up but rather see it for what might be adaptable for your needs. I could hang a panel on the front that could be tilted flat but I do not want people to think what I have to do to get the power to run what I do as being absurd.
 
jimindenver said:
On RV.net there is someone that uses door hinges and pins to be able to tilt in any direction. I likely would not adjust my trucks panel so often were I not able to reach it from the ground. On a parked rig the panels are generally tilted to the south in the best position or the mid day sun and left there. A smaller RV or van could track by moving a few feet at a time like I do with my truck without having to repack everything every time.

I have ran a number of concepts for lifting the panels mechanically through my head for a while now. Screw drive and hydraulic come to mind instantly but are complicated, heavy and prone to break down when you need it the most. Also at issue is getting the extension needed to stand it up as well as the strength to deal with winds. What I think may be doable is gas struts that are compressed in the closed position. A latch would hold them down and a strap would limit the tilt in the summer just as it could keep the panel from releasing on the road.


Jim, come over to La Posa South and check a guy's RV here that has panels that tilt by 12 V. All home built

If u decide to look call John and he can show you where it is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I have a very simple and easy tilt setup for my 3 x home panels, if you are at the RTR you can take a look at them. I use giant cotter keys so it only takes a moment to lock/unlock them in place.  I tilt/untilt my panels often, there is a definite 30-50% power increase in having them tilted depending on the time of year (winter, like right now, is huge), plus most importantly is the ability to get the last 2 hours of sunlight which a flat panel wont do, that is 2 hours less your batteries have to work overnight.
I am using an angle aluminum frame and boxed aluminum support rods.  Because my system is huge the materials cost me about $200.

On the partial shading of panels question, it hasn't been a problem for me, I rarely park anywhere with shading, and if I do park under shade I use a portable 160 watt panel.

Partial shading, such as one entire square on the panel, DOES make a fairly large drop in power output, I have many different panels and they ALL are disproportionately affected by partial shading. Once you get to about a hand size worth of shading or more the performance of panels does start dropping rapidly when pulling full amperage from them. The key is to either minimize partial shading or overbuild the system some to compensate for it. If I was planning to park under a lot of partially shaded areas I would have one set of panels at the front of the rig and another at the very back on two separate controllers and/or have a nice external panel set up.

I speak from experience, I have both types of Renogy, LG, Cynergy, and some other no name poly and mono crystalline brands. I have the ability to monitor my panels from both built in software and a calibrated volts/amps Fluke multimeter, I also have an electronics degree and have run as the Flight Chief a couple of metrology laboratories (Precision Measuring Equipment Calibration and Repair) for the United States Air Force. Renogy Eclipse just use a higher quality monocrystalline cell (18.35%, which isn't that great compared to the newest cells out there now which are around 21%+) so they omit an entire row of cells vs standard Renogy panels, that's why they are smaller in footprint to their standard panel. The Eclipse panels are affected by shading just the same as their cheaper panel.

This is not a forum for attacking people so please refrain, I saw an earlier post where someone got attacked for stating about the same as I just did, please don't get stuck in the "my equipment is better" mindset and be open to others opinions/facts.


Shade Losses in PV Systems, and Techniques to Mitigate ThemHere is an excellent blog on partial shading that describes it in detail and addresses bypass diodes. It is an easy read and if you are interested in solar I highly recommend you take a moment to read it. One interesting quote from it that explains diodes is "Although it would be theoretically ideal to have a bypass diode for each solar cell, for cost reasons a typical solar module will have three bypass diodes, effectively grouping the cells into three series cell strings (Figure 5). For instance, a 60-cell module will typically have one bypass diode for every 20 cells."This means for most panels with bypass diodes, shading of a small portion can take out 1/3 of the power output .
 
That sounds like an awesome setup, I'm very interested in seeing it. I'm still in the M-F 9-5 trap for now, so I'll probably be at the RTR only Sat-Sun 13th-14th. It's only about 4 hours from me.
 
HumbleBeginnings said:
I'm currently a weekend warrior hoping to go full-time in about 9 months.

My power consumption seems pretty mild, and by that I mean I ran my 2 x 100Ah AGMs down from 12.9v to 12.5v over 5 days running my fridge, fan, pump, and lights. I know that isn't the most informative data, but it's the data I have. As you can see, for short trips I don't need solar. But to go full-time I will.

I'm leaning towards an MPPT kit (I know there are disagreements on this topic, let's not debate MPPT/PWM here please).

My thought is to start with 200W and increase to 300-400W only if necessary. I know I can put two panels on my roof without any concern, and I'm pretty sure I can mount three-wide (but I haven't mounted my cross bars yet so that's a little TBD). I could probably get creative with a fourth if I had to but my roof fan is in the middle of the van and I plan to use the rear for a cargo rack. 

My question for this thread is: panel selection

I've been looking primarily at Renogy panels. I've searched here for information about the Eclipse line, but I don't see too much mention of it. For those who have the Eclipse, do you feel they were worth the extra money? Has anybody had experience with both the standard and Eclipse Renogy panels to compare?

Below is information from Renogy's site regarding their 100W panel options (I've rounded some values slightly for simplicity):

100W 12v polycrystalline panel - $120 - 40" x 27" - 14.56% efficiency
100W 12v monocrystalline panel - $140 - 47" x 21" - 15.47% efficiency 
Eclipse 100W 12v monocrystalline panel - $220 - 41" x 21" - 18.35% efficiency 

By my calculations, using the poly panel's cost and efficiency as a "100%" baseline:
  - the mono panel adds 6.25% more efficiency for 16.7% higher cost

  - the Eclipse panel adds 26.03% more efficiency for 83.3% higher cost

I'm not sure how real these efficiency numbers are, so this comparison may not make sense.

For your original question posed, you will hear over and over again, get as much solar as you can afford, you will never regret it, having too little sux. The only real benefit to the Eclipse panels vs the rest is they are physically smaller by having a row of cells less.  If the normal Renogy panels will fit in the location you want then there is really no need for the added expense. Both panels put out 100 Watts. .  There is a giant difference between 200 watts and 400 watts in usefulness and your AGM battery life, 200 watts is definitely too little for 2 100 AH AGMs for full timing. At the very least do the 300 watts since you have the space for it, and future plans just use a portable setup to expand.
LG Panel I seriously recommend fitting one house style panel if it will fit for your application (maybe not with your vent and cargo requirement) rather than a bunch of the 12v style, less brackets to use. The best of the house type panels put out more power for the area used for example  LG has a 365 watt panel 21.1% efficiency that is 67 x 40 inches.
 
GotSmart said:
The Eclipse panel will harvest electricity in conditions where the others won’t.  Such as dusk and moonlight.  I have had nothing but happy people when I install them. 

Over the life of the panel, they will more than pay for themselves.
No solar panel will pull any useful amount of energy from moonlight or  dusk. Eclipse panels only advantage is they are physically smaller by one row compared to their standard line due to their having better efficiency solar cells. This means you may be able to put these in areas that the slightly larger standard ones wont fit. They still only produce 100 watts of power, the same as the larger standard 100 watt panels.

Regarding the power the SUN puts out "The amount of solar energy that hits the Earth amounts to approximately 1,368 watts per square meter, and solar panels are designed to work with this level of energy

Regarding the amount of energy the MOON puts out "This corresponds to an energy of approximately 0.0006 watts per square meter. This is approximately 2.3 million times smaller than the energy produced during the day by sunlight"


Please refer to the following reading
Is Moonlight Strong Enough to Power Solar Panels?

Additionally I have owned both types of Renogys and others, there is no usable power output without sunlight. You might get a tiny (couple of watts) bit of power if parked under very bright lighting. Your panels may show a small amount of voltage from moonlight, but won't supply any usable current.
 

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