Registration and Insurance on a Home Built Camper

[NoMadYesHappy]

While I've pretty well decided on towing an enclosed cargo trailer, I'm still perusing the solutions, both here and on YouTube, that others have used for mobile living quarters.  I've really liked the wooden gypsy wagon / vardo style builds on factory flatbeds, but, it raised some questions in me:

How difficult is it to get them [vardos on flatbeds] registered and insured? 
Is it [a vardo] any different than building out the insides of an enclosed cargo trailer?
Does one need to specify at the time of vehicle registration weather it's an RV or a utility/cargo trailer? 
What happens if there's an accident and you've listed the trailer as some sort of work vehicle that, in truth, has been converted to a camper?

I really love the vardos ... they just seem to match my personality.  But I want to make sure I'm not going to step in some deep bandini before thinking about them further.

Thanks! 

 

[Almost There]

What you can and cannot do and how deep the 'bandini' is will depend entirely on the jurisdiction in which you are claiming as legal residence.

Each state/province varies as to what they will allow a registration under, most all  have 'home built' classifications but the requirements vary from porta pottie, bed and a sink to nailed down, non-removable interior and include holding tanks/propane/electrical etc. etc. etc.

And then comes the insurance conundrum. Just because your jurisdiction allows you to register something doesn't mean that the insurance companies have to insure it.

If you can fight your way through the registration details then check with specialty insurance companies that cover antique vehicles, show cars, etc to see what they can do for insurance purposes.

My first advice is: DO NOT go to your current insurance broker/provider with the idea. I did and barely lived to see insurance coverage on my van...  

Go to someone else that you've never dealt with before and who does not have your insurance information! Be completely honest with them about what you'd like to do. You may  have to talk to 2 or 3 of them before you find someone who actually knows what they are doing and is willing to go the extra mile to help you sort out the insurance side of it.

And then, because you're never going to be able to find your exact build on Kelly blue Book in case of a claim, keep  meticulous records/pics of the build.

 

[John61CT]

Agreed value insurance, where the current "replacement" cost in the event of a total loss is negotiated before signing the contract,

is pretty common in boating. Obviously more expensive premiums than where you have to fight them after the fact.

But the real key is being 100% covered for third party liability, at least in the States that can easily bankrupt you otherwise.

 

[rm.w/aview]

So, RV insurance companies have a definition of what an RV is and meeting this qualification is directly related to how it'll be registered within your jurisdiction, which may very well be Travel Trailer in your case? Sound advice from AT on the carrier or company search btw.

 

[lenny flank]

I tried to insure my van as an RV. Progressive told me they could only insure in PA as an RV it if it was titled as an RV. Pennsylvania won't title as an RV unless you have an external hookup and waste tanks. I have neither.

I ended up being insured as a pleasure van.

I have heard stories from many dwellers that they cannot get covered at all for a DIY van. The insurance companies are afraid that a DIYer will eff something up and the van will burn, leaving the insurance company with the bill.

 

[NoMadYesHappy]

... pleasure van.

Ooo! 

Seriously, thanks for all the answers here!  I think I knew it could be a headache from my experience with one-off custom bikes ... building is fun, legitimizing them to the bureaucracy, not so much.

I've heard of loop holes, no doubt depending on where you license the vehicle, where it is considered a "load" on an already registered flatbed, presumably held in place by some temporary means .. straps or ...?

Anyway, thanks again for the input ...

 

[Weight]

There are underwriters that will insure any item you can think off. But are you willing to pay the premium? You really need liability on the tow vehicle. Just be sure it covers you when towing a trailer. Any trailer.

 

[NoMadYesHappy]

... You really need liability on the tow vehicle...

Absolutely!  And I want it to be legitimate coverage.  But, I want to be smart enough to do things, both in selecting a dwelling solution and it's coverage, that make sense, capitalize on options to reduce cost and stay within what will be a very limited budget.

As much as I love the Gypsy Wagons, I'll chose another route if it's going to cost too much.

Thanks! 

 

[SoulRaven]

I would go here and check to see what others do that have converted cargo trailers, and using the "search" feature there, I came with several hits on the subject: http://tnttt.com/ There are always going to be a lot of variables, so the more answers you can get, the better.

 

[NoMadYesHappy]

Wow! Looks like a lot of good info there! I've got it bookmarked and will be perusing it more deeply. Thank you!

 

[Whit30]

I figure if I have a portable potty, a dishpan, and some gallons of water, technically it’s still a Cargo trailer. Just an insulated one with house batteries. Stuff in it is personal property, ie. cargo.

 

[user 423]

I figure if I have a portable potty, a dishpan, and some gallons of water, technically it’s still a Cargo trailer. Just an insulated one with house batteries. Stuff in it is personal property, ie. cargo.

Yeah, just don't make the build too elaborate. Then it's not that great of a loss if it's totalled.

 

[NoMadYesHappy]

I figure if I have a portable potty, a dishpan, and some gallons of water, technically it’s still a Cargo trailer. Just an insulated one with house batteries. Stuff in it is personal property, ie. cargo.

Yep, that's where my thoughts landed as well.  Just because the contents can be used in situ doesn't make it any less cargo.  The contents will be of a value easy to replace in my circumstance, and my greatest concern is for liability regarding damage to others on the road with me.

 

[tx2sturgis]

Unless you are financing it, why do you need insurance on the trailer?

Maybe you live in a state that requires it, and if so that is the answer. 

If not, then again, why do you need insurance on the trailer? It's not a motor vehicle (that requires insurance). The insurance on your towing vehicle covers liability.

Maybe you want to insure it in case it is stolen, damaged by something you do, or wrecked...(comprehensive/collision) OK I get that...but....

Mine are all 'self insured', all of them. I've never even heard of purchasing insurance on these small (consumer level) trailers. 

In fact, converting a cargo trailer for camping or dwelling has one very important advantage over converting a van for camping or dwelling:

No insurance company and no state agency gets involved in the process of conversion and it does not normally change the registration, at least not in the states I'm familiar with. 

Maybe where you live it is different?

 

[NoMadYesHappy]

Unless you are financing it, why do you need insurance on the trailer?

Um?  I thought it had to be insured?  I've never owned a trailer, so this is all new to me...hence my ask.
So, your comments put a whole new light on it ... I'm a gunna go find out, yep!
Thanks! 
PS: I'm getting the trailer tomorrow or Tuesday   !!!

 

[user 423]

If not, then again, why do you need insurance on the trailer? It's not a motor vehicle (that requires insurance). The insurance on your towing vehicle covers liability.

So if the trailer became detached from the TV and rolled across the median at speed and smashed into a car headed in the other direction, liability on the TV would cover that? I almost got creamed by a tandem axle utility trailer in that type of scenario a few years back while driving from Amarillo to OKC. It was a 'pucker' moment...

 

[tx2sturgis]

So if the trailer became detached from the TV and rolled across the median at speed and smashed into a car headed in the other direction, liability on the TV would cover that?   I almost got creamed by a tandem axle utility trailer in that type of scenario a few years back while driving from Amarillo to OKC. It was a 'pucker' moment...

Well in that case, their basic liability coverage would probably fall way short unless they had some very high coverage. Hopefully you understand that I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, nor am I an insurance agent. And any damages above the liability limits of the other party are hopefully covered by your un-insured/under-insured coverage. Ok, lets get past that disclaimer. 

A trailer that becomes disconnected from a towing vehicle does not suddenly become a seperate motor vehicle that needs its own coverage.  It should be covered to the limits of liability of the vehicle owner who was pulling it. 

Now as to whether your auto insurance company is in the loop about you, or someone else, who is living full time in that trailer, and towing that trailer full time, that's another story. 

And yeah, if I was pulling a large, expensive, travel trailer or 5th wheel trailer, I'd have full coverage on that. Absolutely. 

But we are talking about a small, home built, cargo trailer conversion...right? Worth probably less than 5 grand? Realistic market value...

Unless you (speaking to the OP) want it covered while it is in storage, or if it gets stolen when at a campground, there is not much reason to get comprehensive on one of them. 

Unless you just enjoy paying premiums and handing out money. 

But the liability part is covered while you are towing it with a covered vehicle in normal situations.  That's the short answer.

 

[Almost There]

Well in that case, their basic liability coverage would probably fall way short unless they had some very high coverage. Hopefully you understand that I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, nor am I an insurance agent. And any damages above the liability limits of the other party are hopefully covered by your un-insured/under-insured coverage. Ok, lets get past that disclaimer. 

A trailer that becomes disconnected from a towing vehicle does not suddenly become a separate motor vehicle that needs its own coverage.  It should be covered to the limits of liability of the vehicle owner who was pulling it. 

Now as to whether your auto insurance company is in the loop about you, or someone else, who is living full time in that trailer, and towing that trailer full time, that's another story. 

And yeah, if I was pulling a large, expensive, travel trailer or 5th wheel trailer, I'd have full coverage on that. Absolutely. 

But we are talking about a small, home built, cargo trailer conversion...right? Worth probably less than 5 grand? Realistic market value...

Unless you (speaking to the OP) want it covered while it is in storage, or if it gets stolen when at a campground, there is not much reason to get comprehensive on one of them. 

Unless you just enjoy paying premiums and handing out money. 

But the liability part is covered while you are towing it with a covered vehicle in normal situations.  That's the short answer.

That depends entirely on the jurisdiction in which you are claiming residence. One size does not fit all. Each jurisdiction and insurance company makes their own rules. Maybe in Texas you're covered but maybe in NJ or any one of the other states you're not. The only answer is to check your auto insurance policy, read the fine print and figure it out for yourself.

Just for example, (and I know it's Canadian but we're not THAT different   ), in Ontario I did  not need to pay for a separate policy for the trailer. It was covered while being towed under my automobile liability policy. Theft of the trailer was another story. Now that I've moved to BC, any towed vehicle registered there is NOT covered under my automobile liability policy. I have a separate liability policy for the trailer which costs me a whole $60.00 per year. Not expensive by any  means. It also covers theft of the trailer whether it's from my driveway or while on the road.

 

[tx2sturgis]

That depends entirely on the jurisdiction in which you are claiming residence. One size does not fit all. Each jurisdiction and insurance company makes their own rules. Maybe in Texas you're covered but maybe in NJ or any one of the other states you're not. 

That's precisely what I said in post number 14, second sentence. Check your state laws.

This thread is about converted trailers and the USA, and I don't pretend to know Canadian laws about trailering.

But what happened here was that many of the answers above my post #14 were referring to motor vehicles converted to camping, and the original question was asked specifically about converting a trailer into a camper, and then registering it and insuring it.

I think the OP will be checking the requirements where he lives and where he registers the vehicles.

 

[user 423]

Just checked with State Farm. $75/year for full coverage but that's just for the trailer. Liability on TV does cover the trailer.

Very reasonable but for a fancy conversion you can expect to pay more. I didn't tell them that I would be converting it but I would be happy enough if I got the trailer repaired or replaced if there was an accident or theft.

YMMV..a lot.