Trebor English
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Vagabound said:
It is most unlikely that the two knob valves are equally broken doing the same thing. Problem is likely to be back towards the tank. Intermittent problems are unpleasant.
Propane weirdness
- Thread starter Vagabound
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It is most unlikely that the two knob valves are equally broken doing the same thing. Problem is likely to be back towards the tank. Intermittent problems are unpleasant.
Optimistic Paranoid
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Refresh my memory. You bought a new tank, right?
Is it still working on it's first fill, or have you had it refilled since it's initial fill?
If it's still on it's first fill, are you sure the tank was purged correctly?
Is it still working on it's first fill, or have you had it refilled since it's initial fill?
If it's still on it's first fill, are you sure the tank was purged correctly?
Trebor English
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If it wasn't properly purged it had air in it limiting the first fill to less than 20 pounds. The first time the stove got lit the air, being lighter than propane, came out first.
Rather than dump 20 pounds of propane into the air, try a new 1 pound can.
If you must purge it don't dump 20 pounds into the atmosphere. The unburned hydrocarbons are bad when they get ultraviolet. Here's what you can do. To get out any water turn the tank upside down and bleed out some liquid. Borrow a 1 pound propane can refilling adapter. With that screwed into the tank valve, opening the tank valve will release liquid. Water (8 pounds per gallon) is heavier than propane (4 pounds per gallon) and will come out first. Propane instantly evaporates, water does not. Next, set it right side up and release vapor. With the adapter in place vapor can be released very fast. That should convince you that the air is out without discarding the whole tankful. Once you have purged the water and the air it doesn't matter if it was done initially or not or who did it or how they did it or who trained them how to do it. By the way, all propane activity should be done outside on a breezy day. Gloves and eye protection are a good idea. Frostbite on hands is bad. Frostbite on corneas is devastating.
I have never seen a propane professional, or anyone else besides me for that matter, turn a tank upside down as part of the purging process but I have heard them say that air and water need to be purged. Water will make ice that can clog pressure reducers and make the output pressure unstable. The little spring / diaphragm operated valve is where the pressure drops and the coldness happens and ice forms. So how does water get in? Does the tank manufacturer put some in each tank? Do they put in a carefully measured amount to cause rust to happen at a speed based on warranty length?
On the side of the tank valve there is a recessed screw head. Unscrew it a half turn, maybe a whole turn. There will be propane vapor hissing. Use a foot long screw driver to keep it off your hands. It is connected to a little tube that goes part way down into the tank. When they fill the tank they should stop filling when that vent gives liquid. The tube goes down into the tank to the 80% full level. Because of that tube that vent can't be used upside down to drain water. Right side up if there is air in the tank that tube won't release the air floating at the top either. If you have any suspicion that your tank may have been overfilled crack open the vent and see. Turn the tank upside down so you know what liquid looks like compared to the vapor.
Rather than dump 20 pounds of propane into the air, try a new 1 pound can.
If you must purge it don't dump 20 pounds into the atmosphere. The unburned hydrocarbons are bad when they get ultraviolet. Here's what you can do. To get out any water turn the tank upside down and bleed out some liquid. Borrow a 1 pound propane can refilling adapter. With that screwed into the tank valve, opening the tank valve will release liquid. Water (8 pounds per gallon) is heavier than propane (4 pounds per gallon) and will come out first. Propane instantly evaporates, water does not. Next, set it right side up and release vapor. With the adapter in place vapor can be released very fast. That should convince you that the air is out without discarding the whole tankful. Once you have purged the water and the air it doesn't matter if it was done initially or not or who did it or how they did it or who trained them how to do it. By the way, all propane activity should be done outside on a breezy day. Gloves and eye protection are a good idea. Frostbite on hands is bad. Frostbite on corneas is devastating.
I have never seen a propane professional, or anyone else besides me for that matter, turn a tank upside down as part of the purging process but I have heard them say that air and water need to be purged. Water will make ice that can clog pressure reducers and make the output pressure unstable. The little spring / diaphragm operated valve is where the pressure drops and the coldness happens and ice forms. So how does water get in? Does the tank manufacturer put some in each tank? Do they put in a carefully measured amount to cause rust to happen at a speed based on warranty length?
On the side of the tank valve there is a recessed screw head. Unscrew it a half turn, maybe a whole turn. There will be propane vapor hissing. Use a foot long screw driver to keep it off your hands. It is connected to a little tube that goes part way down into the tank. When they fill the tank they should stop filling when that vent gives liquid. The tube goes down into the tank to the 80% full level. Because of that tube that vent can't be used upside down to drain water. Right side up if there is air in the tank that tube won't release the air floating at the top either. If you have any suspicion that your tank may have been overfilled crack open the vent and see. Turn the tank upside down so you know what liquid looks like compared to the vapor.
Wabbit
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I have a 20# tank, hose, then Coleman stove.(newer version). No regulator, no filter, and its been working for about 5 years now. Do I need a regulator, filter?
As to O.P, don't you think the filter is the easiest thing to check first? Just remove it or replace it. I thought I heard about a 3 month lifespan on the MrBuddy filters. You will have to replace filter sooner or later, if that's not the issue, just put old filter back on and have the new one for when it is time to change.
As to O.P, don't you think the filter is the easiest thing to check first? Just remove it or replace it. I thought I heard about a 3 month lifespan on the MrBuddy filters. You will have to replace filter sooner or later, if that's not the issue, just put old filter back on and have the new one for when it is time to change.
highdesertranger
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Wabbit your Coleman stove has a regulator, somewhere. highdesertranger
Optimistic Paranoid
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Vagabound said:
Tom, if you didn't see this problem with the first fill, then the factory purge was good.
There are two ways to purge a tank. One way is to hook a vacuum pump up to the tank and suck all the air out. Tanks shipped from the factory as pre-purged must be done that way. I suppose it's possible the tank had a tiny leak, in which case air COULD have leaked back in before the first fill.
The other way is to pressurize the tank with gaseous propane (NOT LIQUID) and release it to atmosphere. Do this 3 or 4 times, and only a miniscule amount of air will be left in the tank, and it can then be filled with liquid propane in the usual way.
Thanks for all the great information. Even though this thread has grown into something a bit beyond my situation, I'm sure this has become something useful to others as well.
I'll keep monitoring my stove, and if I figure anything out, I'll let everybody know ... just for posterity and all.
Tom
I'll keep monitoring my stove, and if I figure anything out, I'll let everybody know ... just for posterity and all.
Tom
Of course, as luck would have it, right after I finished my "okay I have enough information" post, my stove starts doing something else related.
The low pressure / low flame problem happened again this morning. I turned everything off, and then blew out the connection to the stove. To be clear, I just blew air into the very end of the regulator tube that connects to the stove, and into the little portal on the stove that the regulator connects to. My goal was to blow out any dust or obstruction that might be in there. When I hooked everything back up, and lit the stove, it worked normally in terms of flame height. In other words, it seems like that fixed it. That would also tend to indicate no problem with the tank period
However, something new started today. Or at least I noticed it today. Normally, the propane flame is mostly blue and maybe a little white. The flame today was completely yellow, and a very bright yellow. Not sure what that means, but I don't think it's normal. I think I remember hearing something about air getting mixed with the propane to create a yellow flame, but I'm not sure about that.
If that's enough information to help narrow this down some, please provide your best guess.
Tom
The low pressure / low flame problem happened again this morning. I turned everything off, and then blew out the connection to the stove. To be clear, I just blew air into the very end of the regulator tube that connects to the stove, and into the little portal on the stove that the regulator connects to. My goal was to blow out any dust or obstruction that might be in there. When I hooked everything back up, and lit the stove, it worked normally in terms of flame height. In other words, it seems like that fixed it. That would also tend to indicate no problem with the tank period
However, something new started today. Or at least I noticed it today. Normally, the propane flame is mostly blue and maybe a little white. The flame today was completely yellow, and a very bright yellow. Not sure what that means, but I don't think it's normal. I think I remember hearing something about air getting mixed with the propane to create a yellow flame, but I'm not sure about that.
If that's enough information to help narrow this down some, please provide your best guess.
Tom
jimindenver
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Maybe bad breath?
Optimistic Paranoid
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Incomplete combustion caused by not enough air. Here you go:
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/causes-burner-flame-gas-stove-yellow-82498.html
As far as the do-it-yourself adjustments, I think they are talking about residential ranges, not sure if you can do that to camp stoves or not.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/causes-burner-flame-gas-stove-yellow-82498.html
As far as the do-it-yourself adjustments, I think they are talking about residential ranges, not sure if you can do that to camp stoves or not.
Trebor English
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Bugs, bug nests, and dust bunnies can obstruct air flow. If they move they can cause intermittent symptoms. Blowing could have moved some dust bunnies.
highdesertranger
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yep lack of O2. check your air inlets. highdesertranger
highdesertranger said:
I should also mention that like everything else, the yellow flame is intermittent. It is a blue flame almost all the time, and sometimes becomes yellow. Right after my last post, when I turned off the stove and relit it later, the flame was blue and normal.
Also, as of today, I'm starting an experiment by removing the Buddy Heater filter between the hose and the Coleman stove. That was never necessary according to Coleman, so it might be causing a problem.
Unless John's earlier link tells me where to find the air inlets, please tell me so I can check them.
Thanks,
Tom
highdesertranger
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the air inlets are usually right behind the valve on the tube that goes to the burner. highdesertranger
Saw a PM way late, asking me to not be so "insulting" repeating safety warnings and "obvious" advice
Decided to post my defensiveness publicly:
Thanks for reaching out!
Often I will repeat stuff unintentionally, poor memory, don't review the thread.
And even when people "know" something in the abstract, when it comes to propane I just see way too many people just have no idea just what they need to be doing on a regular basis to keep their systems safe, way too many people listen to others saying "oh I don't do that and nothing ever happened to me".
It just takes one time doesn't it?
I post not to individuals but those googling later, so if you already know and do it all, accept a little condescension in the interest of public safety.
And thanks again for the reminder, yes I come across as arrogant, I know and apologize.
Decided to post my defensiveness publicly:
Thanks for reaching out!
Often I will repeat stuff unintentionally, poor memory, don't review the thread.
And even when people "know" something in the abstract, when it comes to propane I just see way too many people just have no idea just what they need to be doing on a regular basis to keep their systems safe, way too many people listen to others saying "oh I don't do that and nothing ever happened to me".
It just takes one time doesn't it?
I post not to individuals but those googling later, so if you already know and do it all, accept a little condescension in the interest of public safety.
And thanks again for the reminder, yes I come across as arrogant, I know and apologize.
if you clean everything and it still does it, on top of the regulator is a large cap screw,( it might not have one,but if it does) inside is another screw, light the burner and on medium setting turn that screw until you get the flame you want then replace the cap screw. also if you go from low elevation to high elevation get what is called a sea level regulator. it will keep the outside of your pots from getting sooty.
