Propane lead in

[IanC]

I'm getting ready to lead the gas into the trailer (2x20lb mounted on the tongue). Is the correct way just to run the line under the frame to the 't' or would it be more secure to drill a hole through the frame and run the line through .

 

[BradKW]

I'm not sure, but I've been pondering a similar situation for a bit now...and I kinda feel like the real question is do you use real gas pipe, or flexible hose? I've seen a couple very high end builds done by the "OCD engineer" type, and they ran black pipe. And then I remember reading stories of dry-rotted hose going bad...believe Bob had a flame-thrower incident once too.

So while I'm not sure yet, I'm leaning towards using gas pipe...it can't be all that expensive?

 

[IanC]

I'm not sure, but I've been pondering a similar situation for a bit now...and I kinda feel like the real question is do you use real gas pipe, or flexible hose? I've seen a couple very high end builds done by the "OCD engineer" type, and they ran black pipe. And then I remember reading stories of dry-rotted hose going bad...believe Bob had a flame-thrower incident once too.

So while I'm not sure yet, I'm leaning towards using gas pipe...it can't be all that expensive?

I was thinking about using the rubber hose, (and then the rest of the lines being copper) but wondering if that would rub through. Have you noticed how it's done on manufactured travel trailers? I guess I could get off my butt, go to a dealer and crawl under a trailer. I just have the stove and (eventually) wall  mounted heater, so that part won't be complicated

 

[ahh_me2]

Black iron pipe is the approved method for running a length under a vehicle, and you can tee-off into black pipe or copper pipe for lines up into the unit.

Rubber hose would never withstand the elements down below

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

Just remember that, for safety, there should be no tees or unions anywhere inside the rig.

 

[ahh_me2]

Just remember that, for safety, there should be no tees or unions anywhere inside the rig.

The RVIAA codes allow tees and unions inside a vehicle, provided they have full access around them for leak testing purposes

 

[blars]

Flex gas pipes are not legal in vehicles, they are prone to fatigue fractures.

 

[Optimistic Paranoid]

The RVIAA codes allow tees and unions inside a vehicle, provided they have full access around them for leak testing purposes

I won't dispute what you say, I'm sure it's correct.  But I will suggest that "What's Allowed" and "Best Practices" are not always one and the same thing.

One of the reasons I'm interested in building my own rig instead of buying one pre-built is because I'm convinced I can do it better than the factories can.

 

[highdesertranger]

the standard way is that there is a short rubber line run from the regulator to black iron pipe. the black iron pipe runs under the vehicle and tees in the pipe supply gas inside. the tee is standard pipe fittings on two ends and an inverted flare on the other fitting. then flaired copper tubing(sometimes aluminum) is run to the inside where there is another inverted flare that connects to the appliance. or connects to a quick connect where you could attach you portable appliance. this is the SOP(standard operating procedure). now I guess anybody can do whatever they want but that is how RV manufacturers do it. highdesertranger

 

[ahh_me2]

One of the reasons I'm interested in building my own rig instead of buying one pre-built is because I'm convinced I can do it better than the factories can.

Totally agree with you on that!

I won't dispute what you say, I'm sure it's correct.  But I will suggest that "What's Allowed" and "Best Practices" are not always one and the same thing.

Not dis-agreeing with you on this, but I suppose I should have added a few things:

All copper lines/ joints on propane systems must be done with proper flare fittings.

People with little experience on making these flares, should definitely minimize the number of connections.

And the more joints/connections in any given system, the higher the likely-hood of a failure, even if a professionally done gas fitting job was used.

At the end of the day on here, it's to empower people to make their own informed decisions, which I guess is why I pointed out it is legal for inside tees and unions, as to the "should they?" well, they can make their own decision.

And as for you challenging "legality" against "best practices", I'd do the same if our roles were reversed!

Cheers!

 

[masterplumber]

I flared a piece of line for someone to add a wave 3 heater to a Casita trailer at RTR. It was almost new and I was surprised to see it had a copper line run the length of the trailer attached to the frame with insulated clamps. I still need to add gas to my own cargo trailer and am toying with different solutions. My biggest issue is I'm thinking I need 2 outlets, with different pressures, and one of them may be as high as 25 psi. normal residential LP appliances run at 11 inches of water column on the input side (about 1/2 to 3/4 psi). Originally I was thinking I'd run black pipe all the way in to both appliances with a shutoff at each outlet. An LP supplier I talked to was concerned about running that high of pressure through the black pipe, but that doesn't concern me much - standard test pressure for 2 lb systems used to be 60 psi and the pipe, fittings, and valves are generally rated to 600 psi max. My concern is with the fittings working themselves loose due to road vibrations since the pipe in my case would be rigidly mounted and have a tee with pipe coming in from the sides and front.

Another quick and simple solution I thought of, and one anybody could do with no piping experience, would be to put a small boat hatch in the floor below each appliance. Then install a tee at the tank and run a separate rubber hose to each appliance. If you're concerned about the hoses degrading you just replace them each year as Bob has begun to do I believe. The only main drawback to this is you have to remove the hoses each time you move camp because as others have pointed out, they wouldn't fair well permanently on the outside while traveling. On the other hand, most of the time you wouldn't even need to run the hose to the heater depending upon where and what season you you were in certain areas. This of course assumes you only have a stove and heater. If you add a water heater, forced air system etc you would want to probably run a more permanent gas system.

 

[flying kurbmaster]

I have done something like that MP. I have separate tanks one for the stove one for the heater, located below the stove, on the floor in a sealed and vented cabinet which I can access from inside to turn on or off.. two regulators, a short rubber hose that goes up to the stove, and a longer one the goes under the van and come back in under the heater, I split a garden hose and covered the rubber hose, so no rubber exposed outside, or on entry, I inspect it every so often, 5 years on seems to be doing good. I have a detector and turn propane off after every use, don't sleep with heater on. I am not advising anyone do this but I am pretty comfortable with it, all hose are clamped in, so no movement.

 

[IanC]

I flared a piece of line for someone to add a wave 3 heater to a Casita trailer at RTR. It was almost new and I was surprised to see it had a copper line run the length of the trailer attached to the frame with insulated clamps. I still need to add gas to my own cargo trailer and am toying with different solutions. My biggest issue is I'm thinking I need 2 outlets, with different pressures, and one of them may be as high as 25 psi. normal residential LP appliances run at 11 inches of water column on the input side (about 1/2 to 3/4 psi). Originally I was thinking I'd run black pipe all the way in to both appliances with a shutoff at each outlet. An LP supplier I talked to was concerned about running that high of pressure through the black pipe, but that doesn't concern me much - standard test pressure for 2 lb systems used to be 60 psi and the pipe, fittings, and valves are generally rated to 600 psi max. My concern is with the fittings working themselves loose due to road vibrations since the pipe in my case would be rigidly mounted and have a tee with pipe coming in from the sides and front.

Another quick and simple solution I thought of, and one anybody could do with no piping experience, would be to put a small boat hatch in the floor below each appliance. Then install a tee at the tank and run a separate rubber hose to each appliance. If you're concerned about the hoses degrading you just replace them each year as Bob has begun to do I believe. The only main drawback to this is you have to remove the hoses each time you move camp because as others have pointed out, they wouldn't fair well permanently on the outside while traveling. On the other hand, most of the time you wouldn't even need to run the hose to the heater depending upon where and what season you you were in certain areas. This of course assumes you only have a stove and heater. If you add a water heater, forced air system etc you would want to probably run a more permanent gas system.

So, does this sound right? (and I wish I was better at describing things), if the black pipe was mounted flush to the bottom of the trailer, using the U-shaped brackets , then I would have to drill a big enough hole through the frame in the front of the trailer so the pipe could protrude enough to connect the hose from the regulator, then a 't' below where it is to enter the trailer with a brass fitting (assuming you can use brass with iron)to connect the copper line up to the stove and then on to the heater? I could either point the 't' up through the hole in the floor and connect there , but that would put the connection inside the trailer, which others had mentioned was incorrect. Then I would need to place the 't' sothat the copper pipe doesn't have to make too sharp of a bend.

The removable rubber hoses sounds like work if you're just stopping someplace for a couple of hours and want to throw on a pot of coffee.

Hopefully I can find already threaded pipe in the lengths I need so that I won't have to buy a pipe threader just to thread 3 pieces of pipe. There is not much clearance to work under the trailer, so I know it's going to be quite an event - f-bombs a-plenty. Plus where the trailer is I can't get a vehicle in to pull it up on blocks (to get more clearance) without removing sections of stockade fencing. I'm saving this part of the build for last, that's for sure .

 

[IanC]

 I could either point the 't' up through the hole in the floor and connect there , but that would put the connection inside the trailer, which others had mentioned was incorrect. Then I would need to place the 't' sothat the copper pipe doesn't have to make too sharp of a bend.

ok, I just re-read the other replies, so scratch that sentence

 

[IanC]

I found the answer to whether you can connect brass to iron (but then again, how else would you do it?)

"The electrolytic conditions happens when connecting ferrous metals to non ferrous metals that contain zinc (galvanized) if you think about it EVERY SINGLE CAST IRON RADIATOR has a brass shut off valve, Most black steel gas line have a BRASS gas valve. Brass bolts are the best way to go when installing CAST IRON ROOF DRAINS
Also why use a dielectric union when there are dielectric nipples less chance of leakage"

 

[highdesertranger]

I know Home Depot will do one cut and one thread for free. so say you need a 42 inch piece, you would buy a 48 inch piece and they would cut and thread to 42 inches. a brass fitting into the black pipe to adapt to the copper tubing is SOP. highdesertranger

 

[masterplumber]

If you only have to drill through one cross member that might work, otherwise I would go below the frame. It is really hard to drill multiple holes perfectly in line and if you drill them the exact size of the pipe there just isn't enough accuracy in the threading process to ensure everything will line up. Also, the tees and 90s are larger than the pipe and need room to spin around so you can't mount the pipe tight to the underside of the floor anyway. If you mount the pipe tight to the bottom of the frame and run wood blocks between the floor and pipe it should be fine. On my trailer the only 2 places that ever come into contact with stuff on rough roads are the bottom of the jack, and the rear leaving a ditch across the road. The blocks are there to stop anything like wire etc from getting wrapped around the pipe. By doing it that way it will also keep the joints outside under the trailer if that is a concern for you. Just use a male pipe thread (MIP) by male flare adaptor and it will only stick about 1 1/2'' above the tee.

Most Home Depot and Lowes stores, at least in CO, will custom thread lengths of pipe for you at a lot less cost than buying a threader. Also most plumbing supply stores. If you're planning on leaving this until the end, just run on 1 lb bottles for a bit and work your way to CO. together we could pipe it just the way you want in a couple hours. Whatever you decide, just be careful, take your time, and do an air test on it before putting it into service. When I was an apprentice my boss would always say " you can flood them with water, you can flood them with s**t, but you get a leak on gas and they blow up!"

 

[IanC]

If you're planning on leaving this until the end, just  run on 1 lb bottles for a bit and work your way to CO. together we could pipe it just the way you want in a couple hours.

Funny, I was just thinking when I wrote that "I wish I could hire MP for the job ". Just one more quick question : attaching the pipe to the frame - what would you use? Also, what you're saying is to use a nipple off the t that extends into the trailer below the appliance and add a brass flare fitting to that? Would make sense because there is a false floor in the cabinet that holds the stove/oven, and a nipple will bring it up past that .

I'm going to crawl under there in the morning and get a better lay of the land

 

[highdesertranger]

you use similar metal. for iron/steel use steel, for copper use copper. btw keep the copper insulated from the steel. wrap it in tape so the copper doesn't contact the steel. highdesertranger

 

[IanC]

you use similar metal.  for iron/steel use steel,  for copper use copper.  btw keep the copper insulated from the steel.  wrap it in tape so the copper doesn't contact the steel.  highdesertranger

In an  apartment I lived in once they had laid a copper water pipe across the iron toilet drain - it took 30 years from when the building was built til the time the flood happened. One after another every apartment on the floor got flooded.