old worry of sustaining lifestyle

[tav-2020]

this topic comes up here from time to time but is weighing heavily on me right now. my plan is made and i have been actively working on making it happen for over a year. goal is to be full-time by early 2020.

now i know there is lots of stuff out on the web, good info, bad info, just plain garbage. but a blog I respect and trust recently posted some stats, real and verified, about the number of people entering this lifestyle, whether by choice or necessity, and the increasing limitations starting to be imposed on locations, residency hassles, mail, insurance, etc.  the blog also had projections on future numbers based on real figures, not wild conjecture.  many of the same concerns voiced here in various threads, with frequency. by the time 2020 arrives i may have missed the better wave. and no, i can not jump in early, my responsibilities are firm until then.

i do not panic and am not about to, but i am rethinking my plan. i am now fairly convinced that i will develop some kind of home base for "summering" and live the vagabond life November - April. i am sure this is how many folks do it, so nothing ground breaking here.

i guess i am just wondering how many here may have been rethinking lately? the only constant is change, right?

 

[Moxadox]

Yes, things are rapidly changing. I've been on the road for 3 1/2 years, and I see things morphing into a whole new thing. Some good, some not so much. There are stratifications in the nomad population just as there are in the settled. New markets are opening up to cater to the monied nomads who may or may not winter in Quartzsite or Yuma, or maybe Thousand Trails or some ritzy Tucson 55+ resort. The "lower socioeconomic levels" of the migratory population is being seen more and more as a problem that impacts the privileges of the middle class. Everyone is moving, and so are the policies of Walmart managers trying to keep up with this demographic phenomenon.

Good luck with your plans!

The Dire Wolfess

 

[Minivanmotoman]

Care to mention the blog? Sharing info is always a good thing.

Pros and cons. The nomad lifestyle has existed forever and never easy nor guaranteed. Locals vs outsiders. Rich vs poor. Us vs them. Tribalism.
The population is growing while habitable land is finite, boomers are retiring and hitting the road.
This is both good and bad.

The Good, you will be lumped in with an ever increasing group and ride that trend. The bad, there will be an ever increasing demand for land and space. Especially the desirable locations and free spots close to civilization. The problems of increased/overuse will bring more regulations and surveillance.

It never was easy. And never will be.
Nothing in life is guaranteed. That is the challenge.
Security can only be temporary at best.
Money helps overcome this. If you can Control your expenses, will reduce the worry aspect.

It's all about adapting and flexing.
Those who do this well, thrive in ever changing situations.
Those who don't, make the best of it.

 

[QinReno]

 the blog also had projections on future numbers based on real figures, not wild conjecture.  many of the same concerns voiced here in various threads, with frequency. by the time 2020 arrives i may have missed the better wave. and no, i can not jump in early, my responsibilities are firm until then.

Would be interesting to see those numbers, but the fact is that, long before the cheap RV living thing got going, there have been MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of Snowbirds living the RV lifestyle for **many** decades. And there have always been Casandras, wailing and wailing, especially in the media - that's their job, to wail and find subscribers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person)
https://universe.byu.edu/2017/02/22...tirement-mecca-for-2-million-human-snowbirds/

Forget the foolish crap, just do your thing.

There is a stratification as Moxadox mentions, lots of RVers in $100,000 motor homes who populate the resorts at $50 or more a night, but you needn't worry about those. I met a few at the fish fry in Bombay Beach in february. A couple of 100 came down from the big spa resorts on the hillside to east. They were funny, I swear they all thought the same exact way (invidious generalization). I was the black sheep in my van. BFD. You are much more likely to run into the 40,000,000 people who camp every year. A few more drops in the bucket aren't going to matter all that much.

 

[GypsyJan]

I named my snowbird plan "MONA" = MO (May thru Oct. car-living in the NE, some National Parks, some state parks, and Walmart and truck stops, etc. NA = Nov.- April in Florida, with kin folk, friends, Water Management land, etc.

 

[Moxadox]

Would be interesting to see those numbers, but the fact is that, long before the cheap RV living thing got going, there have been MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of Snowbirds living the RV lifestyle for **many** decades. And there have always been Casandras, wailing and wailing, especially in the media - that's their job, to wail and find subscribers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowbird_(person)
https://universe.byu.edu/2017/02/22...tirement-mecca-for-2-million-human-snowbirds/

Forget the foolish crap, just do your thing.

There is a stratification as Moxadox mentions, lots of RVers in $100,000 motor homes who populate the resorts at $50 or more a night, but you needn't worry about those. I met a few at the fish fry in Bombay Beach in february. A couple of 100 came down from the big spa resorts on the hillside to east. They were funny, I swear they all thought the same exact way (invidious generalization). I was the black sheep in my van. BFD. You are much more likely to run into the 40,000,000 people who camp every year. A few more drops in the bucket aren't going to matter all that much.

Then there are the poor folks in their million-dollar-PLUS Entegras, Foretravels, Prevosts, etc.....makes even the fancy $100k rigs look like Tonka toys [emoji23]. It's amazing to think that people really have that much money, that they can have a $1.5 million RV and probably a yacht and three homes and a private plane.....and then there's the rest of us, trying to figure out how to make it on "Social Security."

The Dire Wolfess

 

[bpdchief]

" Then there are the poor folks in their million-dollar-PLUS Entegras, Foretravels, Prevosts, etc.....makes even the fancy $100k rigs look like Tonka toys. " And they think they are roughing it if the RV RESORT allows rigs over 5 yrs old.
I'll take my old van any day. My big concern right now is parking spaces while I continue to work for 5 more months, after that the lower 48 will be my living room.

 

[Canine]

I'm not sure it you are concerned about being different than other people. If you are, someone will find some way to put you down because you can't be the same as everyone and humans put down people that are different. I overheard a preacher talking about "heathens' (non-Christians) then laughing about it. An atheist or other denomination was beneath them. People who ride Harleys often put down people who ride BMWs or other foreign bikes. A person who prefers .45 caliber handguns often put down people who use a 9 millimeter and visa versa. A person who doesn't drink often looks down upon those who drink and visa versa. A person who only drinks often looks down at people who partake in the devil's lettuce. And on and on. No matter what you do, it will be wrong, so it's best to accept that.

Then when you find people who don't arbitrarily look down their nose at you, you will be among good friends- like many of the people on here.

As far as finding a home base, my plans are working out for me. I have no doubt I will run into difficulties in the future, but that is life. People die. Laws change. Businesses close down. It's not only about being a positive member of society and not hurting anyone- it is sometimes about the rules. Rules are rules and sometimes you will become a bad guy no matter how hard you try. The same can be said when living in a "regular" house, too. Things happen no matter your lifestyle. Its good to be aware and do what you can, but occasionally that isn't enough. When that happens, I chalk it up to, "That's life!" Then I move on. Instead of always fighting the good fight while opportunities are passing me by, I accept my beatings and move on, walking through doors of opportunity. Rolling with the punches works better most of the time.

Whew, that was long winded.

 

[MrNoodly]

IF it's going to become increasingly difficult to sustain this lifestyle, IF it becomes nearly impossible some day, then the longer one waits to get into it the less time they'll be able to enjoy it.

 

[DannyB1954]

I bought a house when property values were down in a semi rural town about an hour drive from Las Vegas. My mortgage, taxes, and insurance is about $400 a month. Some people spend more than that on gasoline trying to stay one step ahead of an eviction. It gets hot here so I will part time during the summer, as soon as some health issues are addressed.
The places that are nice year round are pricey, so one will end up somewhere it is hot in the summer or cold in the winter. That is what a RV is good for. Where I am now 9 months out of the year is quite nice. I am retired, so my income does not depend on location. If I want to travel year round I could, but If I don't want to travel nobody can tell me move along now. You have been here long enough.

 

[Cammalu]

And some people who drive vans put down people who have fancy rigs

 

[Dingfelder]

Things are changing and changing fast. First I wanted a house, then a tiny house, and now to be a nomad. I think being a nomad is the best choice for a quickly increasing number of people, since the restrictions and possibly coming restrictions on tiny houses are many and strike me as likely to get much worse more quickly than would any restrictions on being a nomad.

Won't there always be profit in renting space and/or utilities to nomads? As more and more people retire or get kicked out of their jobs, that market is likely to increase. Younger people, too, becoming more and more accustomed to having jobs or even careers for only a few years at a time, may be finding home ownership much less sensible than previous generations. There's little point putting down roots if you might move cities or even states every three to five years. And many tech, creative, and marketing jobs don't even require working in any particular place. If both the old and the young, as well as the economically dispossessed, all find themselves increasingly sharing the nomad demographic, the private market will probably attempt to respond by putting up more and better facilities across America.

RVs are supposedly being cranked out at a record pace. Ya gotta put 'em somewhere.

 

[Deb_A]

Do any of you remember the old Kris Kristofferson song "Jesus was a Capricorn?"  That always comes to mind when I see divisions between people who would otherwise probably be friends. I have rich friends and poor friends, mostly gardeners, and the rich ones are very generous and the poor ones are even more generous because they know what it's like to be without. I don't judge people by how much money they have, and so, they don't judge me by how little I have. People who do that don't belong in my life anyway, so let them stay in their little snotty cliques so they can feel superior. I've found most of them use their monied superiority to mask vast insecurities. Just look at rich old men who buy themselves a young, hot sugarbaby. If you have good self-esteem, you don't need arm candy to make you look superior to men who stuck with their wives for 50 years. It's all about how you feel about yourself and how you feel you appear to other people. 

Personally, I don't give a crap what people think of me. My mother always said "Be kind to your enemies. It's like heaping coals of fire on their heads." (paraphrased badly from the Bible, but she was good at that). That visual always makes me smile when I run up on some snotty person being - well -- snotty. Being a southern lady, we have ways of taking care of people like that with a very sweet smile on our faces, so they don't even know we're putting them down.


The chorus of the song:

Cause everybody's gotta have somebody to look down on
Who they can feel better than at any time they please
Someone doing something dirty decent folks can frown on
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me.

 

[QinReno]

And some people who drive vans put down people who have fancy rigs

Aww, come on, Cam. Vans with V8s are the Ferraris of the RV world. Half wolf and half antelope. Our greatest fun is passing 40-foot long Class-A rigs towing silly little cars, and who are barely poodling along. Can you blame us?

 

[Canine]

QinReno, that was pretty funny and well written to boot. And it's true! Nice one. lol

 

[tx2sturgis]

Aww, come on, Cam. Vans with V8s are the Ferraris of the RV world.

Hey that is true...I should invent and build a new performance based RV....kinda sporty, with a bed and bucket.

I'll call it, the 'SportsMobile'....

Ketchy huh?

 

[DannyB1954]

There are advantages and disadvantages to every life style. I lived on a boat for most of my life, now I have a house and rv's. To justify one's own decision people often feel the need to discount another persons. I tried to point out that the choice is not limited to either living in a $500 vehicle or paying thousands of dollars a month in rent. There is a lot of stuff in between.

Living in a vehicle is not always the best choice for people. I lived in Alameda Ca for many years. I had older friends that lived in very nice apartments for $60 a month. It was called section 8 senior housing. Should they have bought a van instead? Nothing stopped them from buying a vehicle to camp in if they wanted. They could do both if so inclined.

On renting a space, I seen a Youtube video on investing in mobile home parks. People are buying them up and jacking up the rents as the people renting space have nowhere else to go. Supply and demand. Pay me twice as much or move your 30 year old home out of here. Can't pay up or move,. No problem, we will put a lien on it and sell it to someone who can pay the rent.

I m not anti Nomad. Just make sure that you do not have better long term options.

 

[Vonbrown]

I chose this lifestyle and absolutely love it.
I have a campsite nearby in Pennellville, NY that will be my summer home. $450 a month includes water and electric, showers and laundry. May 1st to Oct 10 are the open dates and closes for the winter. I hook up and head west then.
I try to keep it basic and just find adventure and fun.
Keep moving forward and before you know it, your living your dream.....pffft, you got this.

 

[Vonbrown]

I chose this lifestyle and absolutely love it.
I have a campsite nearby in Pennellville, NY that will be my summer home. $450 a month includes water and electric, showers and laundry. May 1st to Oct 10 are the open dates and closes for the winter. I hook up and head west then.
I try to keep it basic and just find adventure and fun.
Keep moving forward and before you know it, your living your dream.....pffft, you got this.

I apologize if I seem to make it seem trivial and that certainly isn't my intent. This lifestyle seems to fit me naturally, and I seem to forget sometimes where I came from.
I simply wanted to offer words of encouragement to keep moving forward, you will learn if your heart is in it.

 

[Dingfelder]

There are advantages and disadvantages to every life style. I lived on a boat for most of my life, now I have a house and rv's.  To justify one's own decision people often feel the need to discount another persons. I tried to point out that the choice is not limited to either living in a $500 vehicle or paying thousands of dollars a month in rent. There is a lot of stuff in between.

Living in a vehicle is not always the best choice for people.  I lived in Alameda Ca for many years. I had older friends that lived in very nice apartments for $60 a month. It was called section 8 senior housing. Should they have bought a van instead? Nothing stopped them from buying a vehicle to camp in if they wanted.  They could do both if so inclined.

On renting a space, I seen a Youtube video on investing in mobile home parks. People are buying them up and jacking up the rents as the people renting space have nowhere else to go. Supply and demand. Pay me twice as much or move your 30 year old home out of here. Can't pay up or move,. No problem, we will put a lien on it and sell it to someone who can pay the rent.

I m not anti Nomad. Just make sure that you do not have better long term options.

Danny ... but people are doing the same thing with apartments in growing or crowded or fashionable neighborhoods, and have been doing so for a very long time now.  The speculation creating recurring housing bubbles does something of a similar effect regarding home ownership.

No matter where the opportunity exists, someone will find it and try to make money off it.  So while I can appreciate your warning about mobile home park rentals going up and leaving people vulnerable ... aren't they vulnerable almost anywhere and everywhere else too?

I've certainly known lots of people who have been priced out of homes, including kids who couldn't possibly afford a house in the same neighborhood they grew up in even though they have jobs just as good as their parents did or even much better.  Same with apartment dwellers, same with sometimes very profitable businesses that had to close their doors, forever or sometimes months and years at a time, because they needed a new location after their landlord raised the rent by a huge amount on them.  Happens a fair amount in commercial real estate actually.

Anyway, I guess I'm saying that there is no guaranteed security in live no matter what route you take, so taking any particular route might not save you.  Or it might be smart today and not so smart tomorrow.