NV200 S

[GotSmart]

As for electric, the guy at Recon Campers puts his battery under the passenger seat.  I asked him about solar and he said unnecessary since the NV200 has a great alternator that requires infrequent running to keep an auxillary battery charged.  Will you have a fridge?  That is the big energy draw.

You want AGM deep-cycle batteries.  They are sealed.  You can tip and store on the side and they don't need to be vented.  Look for a smart battery.  There are smart controllers or solenoids you can hook up under the hood to charge your aux battery while engine is running without draining starter battery while sitting.  If you do this, you probably don't really need solar.  To charge from house, just get a smart battery charger/minder.    Lithium batteries might be another choice but they are very expensive.

Gary.  You should know better than to trust a car salesman. 

Read Sternwakes postings on batteries, and see that you will have to run the van for hours every day to top up the battery.  A solar panel does this passively.

 

[B and C]

GLWORDEN's problem is a little more unique.  He will be parking in a covered parking garage.

This should probably be a separate thread so this one isn't hijacked.

 

[highdesertranger]

yep relying only on your alternator leads to short battery life. my solar is portable and if I don't put it out for 2 days I need to drive like 8 hours on the third day to get the batteries back up. sitting and idling is not an option as the alternator output at idle is way to low, and way to expensive for the return. highdesertranger

 

[glworden]

yep relying only on your alternator leads to short battery life.  my solar is portable and if I don't put it out for 2 days I need to drive like 8 hours on the third day to get the batteries back up.  sitting and idling is not an option as the alternator output at idle is way to low,  and way to expensive for the return.  highdesertranger

According to Stephen at Recon, who does this professionally, the NV200 alternator is very capabable of charging an auxillary battery with minimal run-time.   Deep-cell batteries, such as your solar system surely uses, are designed to be run down 30% to 50% before recharge rather than be under constant charge like a starter battery.    What electrics are you running that drains a battery in two days?

 

[highdesertranger]

respectfully you need to do a little research.
1. I am talking lead acid batteries.
2. batteries should never be taken below 50%. in fact 70% is much better for the battery.
3. the less you take it down between recharges the better. you will get more cycles(longer battery life).
4. the quicker you recharge the better for the battery. as in everyday.
5. charging off an alternator takes hours. I would have to disagree with Stephen. there is no magic alternator.
6. read Stern Wake's threads on battery charging, if you don't believe him go to the marine forums and read theirs.
7. I run 2 12v refers. plus charge a lap top, phone, and occasional other draws.
highdesertranger

 

[glworden]

respectfully you need to do a little research.
1.  I am talking lead acid batteries.
2.  batteries should never be taken below 50%.  in fact 70% is much better for the battery.
3.  the less you take it down between recharges the better.  you will get more cycles(longer battery life).
4.  the quicker you recharge the better for the battery.  as in everyday.
5.  charging off an alternator takes hours.  I would have to disagree with Stephen.  there is no magic alternator.
6.  read Stern Wake's threads on battery charging,  if you don't believe him go to the marine forums and read theirs.
7.  I run 2 12v refers.  plus charge a lap top,  phone,  and occasional other draws.
highdesertrangers

I asked Stephen about solar and he said it is simply unnecessary in this set-up.  He is an engineer, with a successful conversion business and has lived in vans for several years himself and comes across as credible.   Call him yourself and see what you think.  It's not that I am against solar - I am very much for it.  I am looking for a simple viable solution.  How big are your solar cells?  Are the permanently mounted?

Your electric needs are higher than what mine would be.  Two fridges is a lot.  I don't even know if I need a battery.  LED lights and possibly a vent fan.

I am not talking traditional lead acid battery, which needs to be vented and upright.  I am reading about AGM batteries:
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The leading advantages of AGM are a charge that is up to five times faster than the flooded version, and the ability to deep cycle. AGM offers a depth-of-discharge of 80 percent; the flooded, on the other hand, is specified at 50 percent DoD to attain the same cycle life. The negatives are slightly lower specific energy and higher manufacturing costs than the flooded. [/font]

I don't mean to hijack the guy's thread.  I also have an NV200 and am eager to discuss the same issues regarding insulation, electric and outfitting.

 

[TMG51]

You can trust this one guy if you like, but many people mistakenly believe that an alternator alone correctly maintains a house battery and he is one of them.

 

[BigT]

Hello all,

I have a brand new Nissan NV200 S

Are those things electric?

 

[glworden]

You can trust this one guy if you like, but many people mistakenly believe that an alternator alone correctly maintains a house battery and he is one of them.

That is his experience.  Yours is obviously different and don't try to invalidate that or your opinion.  For me, it would depend on what my projected useage would be and whether I would be moving around or static.   

There is a level of hostility here where if you say one wrong word, people jump down your throat.  Why is that?  I am obviously a novice, as is possibly the OP.   I am doing research yet being told I need to do research.  If you don't want to help, the just don't respond.

I have covered a lot of bases in the last couple weeks and there are just as many people doing alternator charging systems as there are solar, and there is all kinds of harwdware available to do it.

As far as maintaining a house battery, the whole idea of a deep cycle battery is you can draw it down some.  You don't have solar at night, so you must be drawing it down as you run your appliances.   The battery doesn't care where it gets its recharge in the morning, and what I am reading says the AGM batteries recharge much faster than the lead acids somebody mentioned above.  I have been looking into lithium batteries but a 100 amp 12 v lithium is about $1200 and I don't even know if it would work.  Most lithium batteries are smaller and are used to start motorcycles or power a wheelchair.  The wheelchair ones must be able to withstand a prolonged drawdown. 

I am just trying to learn, and if you don't care to be nice - just scroll on.  For those who care to be helpful.  Thanks. Maybe I should just find a newbies forum.

 

[glworden]

Are those things electric?

No.  But they get about 30 MPG.  Not bad for a cargo van.  And 100,000 mile warranty.

 

[highdesertranger]

easy, no one was jumping down your throat. we are just trying to help. so the first thing to clear up is an AGM battery is a lead acid battery. it has slightly different charging parameters then a regular flooded battery. I didn't mean to imply not to use the alternator, I use the alternator too. an alternator is great up to about 80% of charge if you happen to be driving. it's the last 20%, it takes a long time to get the last 20% into the battery, if you are driving all day(8 hours) then fine just the alternator will do it. but if you are only driving a hour or two or want to idle for a hour, that will not cut it. your battery will be undercharged, constantly under charging will greatly shorten the life of your batteries. this guy Stephen is giving bad advice. sure wish Stern would chime in. again nobody is jumping down your throat, we were all in your place at one time. for me it was about 25 years ago, and I ruined many batteries at first, we are trying to keep you from making the same mistakes. btw 12v compressor refrigerators draw very little power. highdesertranger

 

[TMG51]

That is his experience.  Yours is obviously different and don't try to invalidate that or your opinion.  For me, it would depend on what my projected useage would be and whether I would be moving around or static.   

There is a level of hostility here where if you say one wrong word, people jump down your throat.  Why is that?  I am obviously a novice, as is possibly the OP.   I am doing research yet being told I need to do research.  If you don't want to help, the just don't respond.

I have covered a lot of bases in the last couple weeks and there are just as many people doing alternator charging systems as there are solar, and there is all kinds of harwdware available to do it.

As far as maintaining a house battery, the whole idea of a deep cycle battery is you can draw it down some.  You don't have solar at night, so you must be drawing it down as you run your appliances.   The battery doesn't care where it gets its recharge in the morning, and what I am reading says the AGM batteries recharge much faster than the lead acids somebody mentioned above.  I have been looking into lithium batteries but a 100 amp 12 v lithium is about $1200 and I don't even know if it would work.  Most lithium batteries are smaller and are used to start motorcycles or power a wheelchair.  The wheelchair ones must be able to withstand a prolonged drawdown. 

I am just trying to learn, and if you don't care to be nice - just scroll on.  For those who care to be helpful.  Thanks.  Maybe I should just find a newbies forum.

I understand your point about hostility and what's more, I agree with it. I also do not respect people who turn a difference in knowledge into an opportunity for condescension (or worse, mistake a different opinion for a difference in knowledge). I didn't intend for that to be my tone. But I'm afraid that in this case it's not a question of a difference in opinion, the math is not there for an alternator properly tending a house battery. No, the battery does not care where it gets its charge from, but the top of they battery's charge cycle is delivered best over a slow charge, which you will not get from the alternator alone unless you are driving hours at a time regularly.

Sure, you could just hook a second battery up to your alternator and maintain it poorly, and use it until it no longer works. Some people do that and are happy with that setup. But I suggest using a cheap battery if you go that route as you'll be killing it prematurely. Since you're here talking about AGM and lithium it's obvious you're trying to get the answers to do it right and we're trying to give them to you.

 

[akrvbob]

Sadly, this is a case of BEST is the enemy of GOOD ENOUGH. For people with very low electric needs, just alternator charging may be good enough. Is it BEST? No, it is not. Are the odds good that you will find you need more power than you think? Yes, I think that's likely but it's just a guess. Will you slowly abuse the battery and find it fails sooner than it should? Probably, I think that's likely also.

The concern is that ALL batteries want to go to 100% charged very often. And it's easy for your alternator to charge to 80%, that' with a bulk charge. But that last 20% is difficult ad slow, and if yu don't drive enough, it won't happen.

So you're battery is constantly at 80%-90% charge. It will still work, and work well. But instead of lasting 5 year, maybe it will fail after 2-3 years. Is that important to you?

Your guy at Recon is probably unaware of that (few people are, they just can't understand why all their batteries die early) and even if he knows it, probably thinks it's an acceptable loss. Maybe it is an acceptable loss, who are we to speak for you?

If you put in a 100 watt Renogy kit for about $250 bucks it will bring the battery up to 100% charge most of the time and you will gain a year or two extra from your battery. Is it worth it to you? Only you can decide.

For most of us, yes, it is worth it.
Bob

 

[highdesertranger]

well said Bob. you should have been a diplomat. highdesertranger

 

[akrvbob]

After a few years of herding cats here on the forum, I'm getting the hang of it--on good days. Now if I could only figure out those bad days!
Bob