Newbie refrigerator questions

[mothercoder]

Starting this out by asking you to be please be gentle with the newbie.   I have a lot of knowledge about many other things but living in a van is not one of them. :blush:

To be sure, anything having to do with power and electrical confounds me.  What I consider simple questions become complicated and I feel I have to read them with an electronics for dummies handbook nearby. 

I will be starting out on a strict budget and I have identified my basic needs to be happy.  I'm actually compiling a table of those needs with different cost options depending on how the finances shake out. 

From my reading on the forum, it seems that the cheapest option is a standard cooler with extra insulation and ice.  While I can do this, I don't want to do the ice thing.  Too many bad experiences with not finding a damn thing that will keep the melted ice out of your packaged goods.  Next step up would be a super cooler with extra insulation and...ice.  The next step up (budget-wise) would be a 120v apartment refrigerator - but it seems it's almost a wash when you have to boost your power supply to be able to run it.  And then we come to 12v compressor refrigerators which you have to be sure to vent properly and which are costly. 

Do I have this right?  I want to put my money to what makes the most sense and makes my life on the road as simple as possible.  If I have to move funds from one area to another in order to do so, I will.  But I want to be smart about it.  If it means paying a little more now instead of trying things that don't work only to end up with a more expensive option after all, then why not do it that way to start.  I know many people are quite happy with using a cooler with ice but I'm not one of them. 

Thanks in advance for dumbing down your answers.  If you want to talk law, CSS, Javascript or some other subjects, I gots plenty o' knowledge.  Electronics...not so much.   :s

 

[o3dave]

I purchased a Dometic CFX65 12v/120 refrigerator/freezer. It was $680 on amazon with free shipping and it has been one of the best purchases I have made in a very long time. I am on my second year with it and super happy. Not cheap but well built. Plus it will not leave you stranded. It uses very little power and will not drain your primary battery down.

 

[mothercoder]

That price isn't too bad. It might be worth the expense for ease of mind.

 

[Reducto]

I got my 24 quart Dometic for around $450 and it's great. I'd definitely recommend it if you have the power.

If you don't have power set up yet, you can make a standard cooler work in the meantime. Get a 5-day model which costs a few bucks more but is actually insulated. Many that don't state that are just two layers of plastic with nothing between to keep things cold because they are just meant for afternoon trips to the beach.

My rule for coolers was everything must be in a ziplock bag. Even ice got its own bag! You may have to look online for them but they make bags big enough to fit a block of ice. When it fully melts you have a bag of clean water that can be used for cooking or cleaning. All food goes in a ziplock even if it came in its own container or it seems naturally protected like fruit. Don't use the ones with zippers because in my experience they do leak a little.

Another alternative, of course, is to not buy any food that needs refrigeration. It's worth doing this for a time if for no other reason that it gets you looking for other ways to cook. You may decide that you actually do need refrigeration but maybe you only need a small one for a few basics.

 

[highdesertranger]

I hear you on the ice. here's a little story.

back in 09 we were prospecting an area that took one whole day to get resupply 4 hours one way to a small store. I was still using ice chests. one day was ice day and we went to the store, only to find they were out of ice. dang another 2 hours to a larger store. so that night around the fire I thought about it and the next year I acquired a dorm fridge. used it for a few days the thing sucked my batteries dry, had to run the truck a few hours a day. I only had 65 watts of solar at the time. so out with the dorm fridge. then I tried a 3 way RV fridge. this actually worked good except now instead of needing ice I needed propane. so the next year I bought 2 80 panels and a 12v refer. dang why didn't I do that to begin with I would have been dollars ahead. the next year I bought another 12v refer, I will buy 1 more to use as a dedicated freezer when I build my trailer.

also when using an ice chest you must factor in the cost of ice which goes on forever. sooner or later the cost curve intersects the price of a 12v system. I know solar, a battery, and a refer is a big investment. but after the initial outlay you basically have free refrigeration. except for new batteries every 5-10 years.

oh yeah I forgot I tried those 12v coolers, don't even waste your time. highdesertranger

 

[Almost There]

If you absolutely have to use a cooler in the end until you can save up enough for a 12V compressor fridge - which btw you don't need to 'vent' per se, you just don't want to cover up the exhaust vents in the unit, you can do this.

Put your block of ice in a plastic container in the cooler so that the water doesn't flow all over the bottom of the cooler. Yes, you have to remember to empty the plastic container before it overflows but you'll get used to doing this after you have to clean up a few times...  

Put all the items that won't drown in the bottom of the cooler...ketchup, mayo, juice containers etc.

Use LocknLock containers for storing things that get yucky if they get into contact with the ice water...you'll need several different sizes of these.

But this is just a temporary solution until you can get yourself a good 12V compressor fridge.

The problem with this is that you will be spending money on ice and the gas it takes to get to the store and back at the same time as you're trying to save money for the fridge unit.

 

[mothercoder]

Yeah right now I'm pricing solar vs generator (and where do I put the genny) plus 12v fridge and seeing all the big numbers and it's freaking me out a bit. ?

 

[SternWake]

The chest style 12v compressor fridges are powerful and reliable, save for the Ciggy plug electrical connector which is easily remedied.

Seems you have read up well on this topic of refrigeration.

Fridges don't force things cold, they suck heat from the box. This heat has to go somewhere and is released by the condenser, which is the finned radiator looking thing or the metal bars and coils. Some dorm fridges actually use the metal skin of the exterior to transfer heat to the environment, which makes adding extra insulation there, unwise in the extreme.

The chest style 12v compressor fridges can have extra insulation added, and can also have ventilation upgrades to help with efficiency, but this is not strictly necessary. What is necessary is to not block the cooling unit's vents, just like one would not want the fridge baking in direct sunlight in a 120F car.

I have taken the steps to extra insulate my front loading fridge( vitrifrigo c51is) and also went a bit nutty ensuring only the coolest possible ambient air gets pushed through condenser once, without chance for recycling, but this was unnecessary, just something I did to help increase efficiency as much as possible..


To reliably power just the fridge one needs a minimum of 60 watts of solar in a sunny environment, but more of course is better.

My preference on deciding the amount of battery capacity required, is how much charging source There is. I want more than 2 solar watts to 1Ah of capacity, and would be even happier with 3 solar watts to 1Ah Capacity. Some others want a lot of battery capacity and whatever amount of solar wattage they can afford ( or fit on their roof) to help replenish the battery, and it is what it is. Neither strategy is wrong.

My system is 200 watts of solar in a sunny environment at 33'North. My alternator is thickly wired and can provide upto 106 amps into my Single high$$ AGM battery rated at 90 AH capacity. How much juice any battery actually pulls from alternator depends on its state of charge and alternator rpm, the thickness of copper connecting the two, and the target voltage of the vehicle's voltage regulator.

I also have a 40 amp plug in charging source for when I can plug into the grid to ensure the battery gets to a true 100% state of charge regularly.

These 3 charging sources can allow me to use my laptop several hours each day, have a fridge whose electrical consumption is not a concern, power fans Tv lights ect.

Now the ability to plug in is Kind of crucial in the wintertime for me. I do not drive very much so the alternator does not have much time to do a lot of recharging of a depleted battery, and the sun is not high enough for long enough to meet my needs, unless I cut way back on the laptop. But here I am anyway, sucking up 30 to 40 watts typing this, while my fridge consumes 32 watts and only for 15 to 20 minutes every hour at most.

In general if one is driving daily with a well wired alternator, and has a dedicated 100AH house battery and at least 100 watts of solar, with a fridge being the only major power draw, they should not have to replace the battery within a year. 200 watts would be better and yield more battery life and more of a buffer when driving less.

Really it comes down to how often and how much of a pain in the ass replacing the battery(s) is/are. The battery simply is happiest when it is fully charged and It takes a long time to fully charge a battery to a true 100% state of charge.

80% charged to 100% charged cannot be accomplished in less than 3.5 hours, no matter how powerful the charging source might be. However, Getting to 80% can be accomplished fairly quickly with a high amp powerful charging source, But over ~80% charged The battery simply cannot accept much current , yet it needs to get as close as possible and preferably to 100% each recharge cycle to yield 350+ deep cycles.

The Truck fridge is one of the cheaper 12v compressor fridges.

http://westyventures.com/parts.html

Keep in mind the battery is simply rented. The length of the rental contract is determined on how the battery is treated. Keep it above 50% charged and return it to as high a state of charge as possible as often as possible and it will should yield a respectable rental contract.

One does not have to recharge perfectly, but one should ensure some minimums are met, and at least Know what Ideal recharging would be, even if it is impossible to attain 99.5% of the time.