Newbe Inverter Questions

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exnavyabfc

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Looking for suggestions as to what size and brand pure sine inverter I should purchase. I will have two deep cycle batteries and I will run a Fantastic fan, a mini fridge, a small flat screen and my laptop. Hopefully go solar in the future Thanks in advance for your help.
 
I like the Samlex brand...I've had good luck with those.


What size depends on what you plan to run, but a mini fridge and a laptop, a small flat screen and maybe a game console, a few other small items...should run very well off a 300-500 watt inverter with some power to spare.

With this size you wont be running a microwave oven, electric skillet, toaster, or an induction cooktop, but you didnt mention those.

You wont be powering the fridge for very long tho...unless you are hooked up to shore power or have a solar array up topside.
 
its really not gonna matter much because with as much as you want to run, you don't have the batt storage.
 
Best are Magnum, Vanner, Victron, ProMariner, Sterling.

Many like Xantrex.

Samlex has a good rep overall.

To size properly run as much as possible on DC direct, 12V or through a voltage converter, especially screens & electronic gadgets.

Then those devices that really do require AC, run them on a Killawatt or ammeter, try to capture the max watts load at startup, add them up to the extent you'll be running them concurrently.

Then figure how many hours per day, get an overall AH/day, maybe 4-5x that gets your minimum bank size.

And if you get true deep cycle batteries and want them to last you need to never go under 50%, and get them back to 100% full most cycles.

The fridge will be a big draw, usually recommend at least 300AH storage for that.

If you're boondocking, solar isn't optional, may need a small gennie too.
 
fantastic fan = 12v
small refer = get a 12v
small flat screen = get a 12v
laptop = get a 12v charger
you don't need an inverter. highdesertranger
 
tx2sturgis said:
I like the Samlex brand...I've had good luck with those.


What size depends on what you plan to run, but a mini fridge and a laptop, a small flat screen and maybe a game console, a few other small items...should run very well off a 300-500 watt inverter with some power to spare.

With this size you wont be running a microwave oven, electric skillet, toaster, or an induction cooktop, but you didnt mention those.

You wont be powering the fridge for very long tho...unless you are hooked up to shore power or have a solar array up topside.

See, I really don't understand this stuff at all. I wont be running all at the same time. The batteries are 200 Res amps each. Isn't that enough storage to run the fan all night and play on the computer some or watch some TV before bed?
 
caretaker said:
its really not gonna matter much because with as much as you want to run, you don't have the batt storage.

How many res amp hours on the deep cycle batteries do you suggest?
 
highdesertranger said:
fantastic fan = 12v
small refer = get a 12v
small flat screen = get a 12v
laptop = get a 12v charger
you don't need an inverter.  highdesertranger

I'm confused. I thought I needed a power inverter to run my electrical stuff ( computer) through.  What system do I need?
 
An inverter is only for changing DC (usually 12V) to shore power (in the US ~110 AC).

If a device's power brick or wall wart when you use it at home shows DC output, it is better to do DC to DC conversion, like a laptop running from a ciggie port adapter.

Very few device types aren't available in DC versions, so you can often avoid the need for an inverter completely or at least get by with buying the minimum size.

About battery size, real deep cycle measurements are in Amp Hour, you should have IMO at least a bank of 400AH to run a fridge.

And the means to recharge them to 100% every day.
 
fantastic fans are 12v you don't need an inverter.
most here use 12v refrigerators no inverter needed
they make 12v TV's/monitors no inverter needed
they make 12v chargers for most lap tops no inverter needed.
it's far better to run as much as you can directly to 12v. every time you make a conversion there are losses. inverters are between 70-90% efficient. you also have the parasitic draw of the inverter which is drawing power even if it's not powering anything. so with what you listed it's all available in 12v you don't need an inverter for what's on your list. highdesertranger
 
I got a Harbor Freight $25, $20 with coupon, 400/800 inverter to run my electric shaver.  That's about as inexpensive as they get.  I used it with the jig saw and electric drill to cut the 14 inch hole in the roof to mount the vent.  I have used it for lots of unexpected stuff like big fans to dry it out after I left the van open in the rain.  

Since it is square wave (MSW) there are things it won't run.  I have not experienced that.  If I do find something that I want to run and this inverter won't do it then I will buy something expensive like filtered (they aren't pure) sine wave with the knowledge that I need to spend the additional money.  The low price test will have been done.
 
exnavyabfc said:
See, I really don't understand this stuff at all. I wont be running all at the same time. The batteries are 200 Res amps each. Isn't that enough storage to run the fan all night and play on the computer some or watch some TV before bed?

Yes but the fan you mentioned will be running on 12 v directly, and wont be going thru the inverter, but will still contribute to the overnight drain on the batteries.  And the other items you have, assuming they are all 120v appliances, (regular house current) then they will run thru the inverter.

As mentioned by others here, if you buy the 12 v versions of the items in question, you might not need an inverter, but even tho many of us have converted most of our mobile electronics to 12v, there are still a few items that you might have or want to buy in the future that will need an inverter.

Common items that might need an inverter are cordless tool chargers, small kitchen appliances, cpap machines, electric razors, laptop chargers, etc. Many or all of these can be bought in 12 v versions but assuming you have some of these and want to keep using them, you will need an inverter to do so.

Also as mentioned, an inverter will draw a small amount from your batteries when it is turned on, even if nothing is plugged into it, so its always best to turn it off when not using it.

Finally, as far as overnight loads, yes, you should be OK, but what are your plans for recharging? You cant just keep pulling small amounts for many nights and then expect to have fully charged batteries forever. You will need to recharge the batteries, preferably daily.

The three ways most of us accomplish that is either with a solar panel array, or driving the vehicle with provisions to charge the house batteries, and third, hookup to a generator or shore power.
 
Trebor English said:
If I do find something that I want to run and this inverter won't do it then I will buy something expensive like filtered (they aren't pure) sine wave
So are you saying when a vendor like Vanner, who makes inverters for life support electronics, is **falsely** claiming "100% sine wave just like grid mains power".

Victron, Magnum, MasterVolt units costing thousands of dollars, I'm not saying they're worth it, but I would hope at 10x the cost they're at least getting the waveform right?
 
Please correct me if I'm wrong but,,,,,,,don't ALL inverters have a sine wave, some pure some modified, with my knowledge base if i read an add for an inverter that said produces 100% sine waves, i would wonder what they were trying to hide, as in what things can that thing produce????gama radiation????? X-rays????? do i need a lead vest to turn it on and off???HHHHHHUUUUMMMMM all pertinent Qs if you ask me. the last thing i want to do is buy a device that starts a runaway time phase distortion that destroys all of mankind,,,because i don't wanna die.
 
tx2sturgis said:
Yes but the fan you mentioned will be running on 12 v directly, and wont be going thru the inverter, but will still contribute to the overnight drain on the batteries.  And the other items you have, assuming they are all 120v appliances, (regular house current) then they will run thru the inverter.

As mentioned by others here, if you buy the 12 v versions of the items in question, you might not need an inverter, but even tho many of us have converted most of our mobile electronics to 12v, there are still a few items that you might have or want to buy in the future that will need an inverter.

Common items that might need an inverter are cordless tool chargers, small kitchen appliances, cpap machines, electric razors, laptop chargers, etc. Many or all of these can be bought in 12 v versions but assuming you have some of these and want to keep using them, you will need an inverter to do so.

Also as mentioned, an inverter will draw a small amount from your batteries when it is turned on, even if nothing is plugged into it, so its always best to turn it off when not using it.

Finally, as far as overnight loads, yes, you should be OK, but what are your plans for recharging? You cant just keep pulling small amounts for many nights and then expect to have fully charged batteries forever. You will need to recharge the batteries, preferably daily.

The three ways most of us accomplish that is either with a solar panel array, or driving the vehicle with provisions to charge the house batteries, and third, hookup to a generator or shore power.
I plan to have my batts connected to the alternator through a solenoid to charge while the van is running and not draw power from the van starting batt.
 
MSW used to mean modified square wave.  Before that there was square wave.  That's a 120 volt plus pulse for 120th of a second followed by a 120 volt minus pulse.  Modified square wave inverters have a brief off time between pulses and a slightly higher voltage pulse to keep the average at 120 volt.  Modified sine wave is a marketing lie.  It is modified square wave.  Look at the waveform with an oscilloscope.

Pure sine wave inverters use PWM pulse width modulated techniques to do it differently.  Over the entire 120th second positive half cycle the output is turned on and off real fast varying the on percentage to approximate a sine wave.  The fast little pulses get filtered.  That makes it much more sine wave like than a square wave or a modified square wave.  Repeat for the negative half cycle.  

The fast little pulses, even filtered, tear up AM and SSB radio reception.  Distortion makes it less accurately a sine wave.  The pure sine waves are as pure as the water in Flint.
 
John61CT said:

That company sells inverters.  This is their marketing.  I looked up their technical detail on one of their pure sine inverters.  They specify less than .5 volt high frequency noise on the output.  That means that the way it works is PWM with an output filter.  Otherwise there would be none.

If you really want really pure sine waves get  a gas powered generator of the high noise construction contractor variety.  The engine constantly runs at 3600 RPM.  There is a spinning magnet next to a coil of wire.
 
Sorry, thought it was a good basic explanation of the issue.

Isn't it the case that some devices can actually be damaged plugging into a lower quality power source?

If so then I really don't like "try it and see if it works".

Like "marine deep cycle" labels in retail, very scammy biz sector. . .
 
Here's a pretty long video and the production values are not...shall we say...great....but some good information nonetheless...


[video=youtube]
 
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