Need advice on what Solar system equip to buy

[John61CT]

But series really is **not** a good idea if there's a chance of partial shading. As in a leaf, twig or bird poop dramatically reducing power output.

Ideal for that is a cheap but solid controller like Victron 75/15, paired 1:1 with a 25-50V panel of the right size under 300 watts. Ideally Sunpower cells, which I believe is what Renology uses.

If you get another panel, get another controller, well under $100.

If you're placing panels out in the sun away from the van, moving as needed, keeping them clean, then series is good for reducing wiring gauge needed for long runs.

Nice thing about Victron is their high tolerance specs allow for a lot of flexibility, can often go series if you like, then later on change to parallel without having to go to another controller.

To me that's worth more than the extra 10-15% you might get from the fact they're MPPT.

And the extra logging / monitoring you get with the dongle later on's pretty cool.

They're also pretty bulletproof, widely used at sea.

 

[akrvbob]

If it is not too late, you should consider a PWM controller vs the MPPT for only 200W of solar.  There are a lot of misconceptions about MPPT, to get the full benefit of MPPT you really need to be at least 500W of solar.  

As always, I appreciate the sincerity of your opinion but I totally disagree with it. Unless you just can't afford it, spend a little bit more and get a good quality MPPT controller. No matter the size of your solar array, in the long run you'll be very glad you did. 

If you can't afford it, get the PWM and then start saving toward a better solar controller.

 

[Hermes1]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  In my case I can afford a high quality MPPT but in my previous rig and now my present I have chosen a PWM, because the performance I got using a PWM did not warrant the extra expense of MPPT.  The very good & high quality MPPT controllers cost considerably more than a high a quality PWM.  No question a large solar array consisting of highly efficient panels and under optimal conditions, a MPPT controller can yield some great results.  Problem is, it is an internet myth and reinforced by solar vendors that MPPT controllers are required to get the best and most efficient solar system.  But based on my personal experience, the experience of others I know and sound material on solar, I still will say a high quality PWM properly set-up will beat a cheap MPPT controller in a small solar array.  Far too many I have seen buy cheap MPPT controllers and think they are getting a tremendous advantage for the extra dollars they have spent.  I just went back to Handy Bob's solar blog who has consistently written the most sound information on solar I have read and IMHO a must read for anyone contemplating setting up a solar system.  Here is a brief excerpt which supports my experience using a PWM.  "MPPT:  You do need this if you are going to hook up panels that are designed for grid tie to a battery based system.  The explanations can be found in many places and I don’t see why anybody should still miss this.  PWM is same voltage out as in and can only be used for 36 cell (17-18Vmp) panels that are designed for 12V battery charging (or 72 cell panels on 24V systems.)  Grid tie panels are NOT 24V and when a dealer tells you they are, he just told you how stupid he is.  24V systems in RV’s are only for ridiculously over sized things.  There is a place for it, but it rarely makes sense.  Last, MPPT does not do anywhere what many people claim.  Worse yet, the cheap ones are actually less efficient than a good PWM controller.  I have proven this more than once and I am tired of trying to convince people.  If a bit of extra charging early in the charge cycle will help you, fine.  Just be realistic with your expectations and realize there is no magic “extra 25% and more”.   I have explained this very well, so I won’t repeat myself.  Go tell somebody who cares about the mistake you made in believing the outrageous marketing claims, especially by that outfit who specializes in MPPT RV charge controllers.  Theirs do not do what is claimed.  The word tracking means they should do that, varying what they do based on conditions.  Guess what?"  This is a guy who not only has the electrical background to support his writing, but has lived full-time for many years in an RV with a PWM controller and a smaller array than the so called internet experts would say is required.

 

[Hermes1]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.  In my case I can afford a high quality MPPT but in my previous rig and now my present I have chosen a PWM, because the performance I got using a PWM did not warrant the extra expense of MPPT.  The very good & high quality MPPT controllers cost considerably more than a high a quality PWM.  No question a large solar array consisting of highly efficient panels and under optimal conditions, a MPPT controller can yield some great results.  Problem is, it is an internet myth and reinforced by solar vendors that MPPT controllers are required to get the best and most efficient solar system.  But based on my personal experience, the experience of others I know and sound material on solar, I still will say a high quality PWM properly set-up will beat a cheap MPPT controller in a small solar array.  Far too many I have seen buy cheap MPPT controllers and think they are getting a tremendous advantage for the extra dollars they have spent.  

I just went back to Handy Bob's solar blog who has consistently written the most sound information on solar I have read and IMHO a must read for anyone contemplating setting up a solar system.  Here is a brief excerpt which supports my experience using a PWM.  "MPPT:  You do need this if you are going to hook up panels that are designed for grid tie to a battery based system.  The explanations can be found in many places and I don’t see why anybody should still miss this.  PWM is same voltage out as in and can only be used for 36 cell (17-18Vmp) panels that are designed for 12V battery charging (or 72 cell panels on 24V systems.)  Grid tie panels are NOT 24V and when a dealer tells you they are, he just told you how stupid he is.  24V systems in RV’s are only for ridiculously over sized things.  There is a place for it, but it rarely makes sense.  Last, MPPT does not do anywhere what many people claim.  Worse yet, the cheap ones are actually less efficient than a good PWM controller.  I have proven this more than once and I am tired of trying to convince people.  If a bit of extra charging early in the charge cycle will help you, fine.  Just be realistic with your expectations and realize there is no magic “extra 25% and more”.   I have explained this very well, so I won’t repeat myself.  Go tell somebody who cares about the mistake you made in believing the outrageous marketing claims, especially by that outfit who specializes in MPPT RV charge controllers.  Theirs do not do what is claimed.  The word tracking means they should do that, varying what they do based on conditions.  Guess what?"  

This is a guy who not only has the electrical background to support his writing, but has lived full-time for many years in an RV with a PWM controller and a smaller array than the so called internet experts would say is required.

As a subscript I just noticed in your signature Bob, you have 480 watts of solar, which is in the ballpark where MPPT can make sense, so I totally get why you see the benefit.  My response is more directed to the OP who seems to be limited on cash and seems to be leaning towards 200 watts.  A PWM wilt only save her money, I simply have not seen the evidence to support MPPT being a better choice for a small solar array.

 

[frater secessus]

I'm not sure how much we are helping OP.

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[VagaboundSusan]

Okay John it is late and my brain is beyond mush but this is what I have in the cart.
Have not looked yet to see what, if, and how many fuses are needed for this controller so please chime in. I changed the batteries back to the UB china special because of Windy Nation's recent design change with the terminal/post causing issues. 


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B013PKYILS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1T3LOAKNUUM9N&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S1RT58C/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A10QFO4IXVZNRN&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q5W30FY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CGFF8Q2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?smid=AMVRK92LFYKXB&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JH1PABW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00W49ZPPK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U3MK0CI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?smid=AMVRK92LFYKXB&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AQQAAQW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071H7D7SM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_9?smid=A2VHGGOHXF24LJ&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00INVF468/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EMQFCC8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_11?smid=AXLVUUCJK6134&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DYQ5T3O/ref=ox_sc_act_title_15?smid=A1L7F5DL4H71TK&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CSEXW2S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_16?smid=A7YCV1LK1NBR2&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01GXQMP66/ref=ox_sc_act_title_17?smid=A35SBO3MKPTE8L&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00INVEWJ8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_18?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVYGZA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_19?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001P6FTHC/ref=ox_sc_act_title_20?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JNNWQ2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_21?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

These items along with my Fantastic vent cover and filter come to $1085.38

Am I getting closer, or did I just climb into the back seat of Thelma and Louise's car?

Happy Dreams....Susan

 

[John61CT]

Renogy makes a 255W, 24V (nominal) panel that would result in much higher total output, one per 75/15, from the Victron than paralleled 2x 100w, no need to go serial.

Does 64.5 X 39 X 1.7 " work for you?

I'd rather see the Blue Sea ciggie port, with matching twist-loc plugs unless someone you trust recommended that.

And/or Anderson if for more than a few amps.

Solar premade OK, did you check lengths with string?

I'm more demanding about wiring connections, recommend getting help with the DIY crimping, use genuinedealz.com for high-amp stuff.

 

[VagaboundSusan]

Renogy makes a 255W, 24V (nominal) panel that would result in much higher total output, one per 75/15, from the Victron than paralleled 2x 100w, no need to go serial.

Does 64.5 X 39 X 1.7 " work for you?

I'd rather see the Blue Sea ciggie port, with matching twist-loc plugs unless someone you trust recommended that.

And/or Anderson if for more than a few amps.

Solar premade OK, did you check lengths with string?

I'm more demanding about wiring connections, recommend getting help with the DIY crimping, use genuinedealz.com for high-amp stuff.

Good Morning,

The 255W panel is only sold in pairs as far as I can tell.  My roof mounting space is just under 59" wide, with the fan not in yet I have the flexibility of deciding best layout for all items. I will change the plugs in cart :idea: Did not check lengths with string. Will be dry fitting for two possible install locations. I am a visual person, need the items out in the space to help. Just checked genuinedealz, great site for ordering custom cables. Thank you!

 

[John61CT]

Check pricing for your panel cables too, to exact needed plus some extra, for sure better quality than stock.

They have very fast turnaround so can wait until mounting finalized.

Sideways would be fantastic if you could swing it?

I bet the 255w can be found as singles with some digging.

Or equivalent for sure, have you tried near-local supplier? Shipping is the big cost variable.

Sunpower is a great cell though.

 

[jimindenver]

Look on craigslist for panels. I have paid as little as $50 each for high voltage panels. Most recently here I saw 260w for $60. You will need to check often and be ready to buy when they show up. Panels at those prices do not last long.

 

[VagaboundSusan]

Check pricing for your panel cables too, to exact needed plus some extra, for sure better quality than stock.

They have very fast turnaround so can wait until mounting finalized.

Sideways would be fantastic if you could swing it?

I bet the 255w can be found as singles with some digging.

Or equivalent for sure, have you tried near-local supplier? Shipping is the big cost variable.

Sunpower is a great cell though.

I get what you are saying but I live in southern Alabama on the beach. No solar anything around here, it is considered                           un-American...lol. The only shop that shows up within a 50 mile radius is a installation company that does grid systems, no retail.

Is there something wrong with using the 2 100 watt panels now? The panels that have been listed for sale on Craig's list for my area all the to New Orleans are over priced crap.

 

[John61CT]

Is there something wrong with using the 2 100 watt panels now? The panels that have been listed for sale on Craig's list for my area all the to New Orleans are over priced crap.

I would invest a little time trying to get the higher voltage.

Remember with the 75/15 you could actually use a grid-style panel up to say 65V (extreme, unusual example), say you found a 300-350W panel super cheap right dimensions, no problem in fact greatly increased output in off-peak conditions! That's the beauty of the Victron, lots of flexibility.

Only real problem with those 100W is their lower voltage, means lower output if paralleled, which is better for partial shade.

Going to serial, better for voltage and total power output, good if used portably, in the sun away from the van reduces wire gauge needed. But lousy if any possibility of even a tiny bit of shading.

But note we're likely talking a 20-40% difference in power output to the bank, maybe NBD for you? Between 2x 100W vs the **one** 255W that is.

But if you are trying to maximizing power output for the controller and space available, ideal would really be the one bigger higher volts panel.

You could get everything but the solar for now, get started on the install work with a mains charger (you'll need anyway right?) and put some effort in looking.

There's a super-cheap outfit in Florida worth looking at, anyone remember the URL?

If you want Renogy for sure, and **really** can only get that 255W in pairs, can't fit both of them up top, you could post the extra panel on CL yourself.

But if you could ever make both 255W fit, wouldn't **that** be cool getting at least triple the overall power output? but yes would need another $100 Victron

 

[gapper2]

Susan, what year is your nissan nv2500 hd standard roof?  The reason I ask is I didn't see any roof rack from you photos.  Is it your intention to mount the z brackets directly to the van roof?  Nothing wrong with it just more holes in the roof and precautions need to be considered to prevent leaking.  I know it's all the little things that add cost to the build.

 

[VagaboundSusan]

Susan, what year is your nissan nv2500 hd standard roof?  The reason I ask is I didn't see any roof rack from you photos.  Is it your intention to mount the z brackets directly to the van roof?  Nothing wrong with it just more holes in the roof and precautions need to be considered to prevent leaking.  I know it's all the little things that add cost to the build.

2013 standard. I do not want to mount numerous panels to the roof. Looking at picking up racks and using cross rails for mounting. That is why the first panel I found at Solar blvd got me excited, it fit perfectly across.

This is getting a bit frustrating and I am sure it will continue to do so. I am doing my best to keep up with everyones advice (thank you) but I think what I want for my system is getting lost in this mix. So here it goes:

I will only install sealed batteries (putting my foot down on this one)
I will be installing the CTEK with Smart Pass, it fits my needs and style of travel.
I would like to set up a system that is compatible  (Voc) with the CTEK or keep it small and add a portable panel for it.
Although my budget is limited this year as time goes by it can be expanded. I really just need the basic power set up so I can hit the road later this fall and winter.

 

[John61CT]

I don't see the Solar Blvd link, what was wrong with it?

 

[gapper2]

Susan,
   Your choices seem wise to me.  I've got AGM, good on the Victron MPPT,  I went roof racks.  Originally I planned 2x4's for the cross rails but as money came in I purchased alum. angle.  I know with so many trying to help, it can get a little overwhelming.  You're doing good!

 

[highdesertranger]

I agree your doing fine. there is nothing inherently wrong with running 100 watt panels. sure you can get more bang for your buck but don't let everyone confuse you. two 100 watt panels will work fine for your application. highdesertranger

 

[rvpopeye]

You took the time to listen to everyone's thoughts.
You have learned a lot of new things since you started.
Pick the parts that make sense to you.
There will be more help available here for the
install phase.

 

[John61CT]

OK, I sure wish I had a decent AGM (Northstar, Odyssey, Lifeline) to point to that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Not sure where I bookmarked this from?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ACKDGPS

At least they have a reputation to defend.

 

[VagaboundSusan]

OK, I sure wish I had a decent AGM (Northstar, Odyssey, Lifeline) to point to that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Not sure where I bookmarked this from?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ACKDGPS

At least they have a reputation to defend.

 I got very nervous about the Windy nation battery because of some of the recent reviews...

[size=small]3.0 out of 5 starshttps://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...f=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01ACKDGPSNew battery not same as old[/size]
ByChaisson Kimballon July 15, 2017
Verified Purchase
I liked the old style better now they have thread in bolts for the top posts and they changed companies who make it for them. The old style had everything better. shipping material on the new battery is the cheap styrofoam that breaks easy my box was totaled and battery was scratched on bottom

[size=small][size=small]rshttps://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...f=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01ACKDGPSYOU NEED TO KNOW[/size]
[/size]
ByThomas Pophamon July 22, 2017

Verified Purchase
[size=small]Beware: just got battery can't say how good it is because it's at machine shop getting threads repaired. The bolt will strip threads out when you try to tighten down bolt. Reason battery not properly drilled and tap. Cost of battery and cost of machine shop it would be cheaper to buy the higher priced battery.[/size]

[size=small][size=small][size=small] out of 5 starshttps://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-...=cm_cr_getr_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B01ACKDGPSTHE OTHER ONE WORKED FINE.[/size]
[/size][/size]
ByAndres Alvaradoon June 7, 2017

Verified Purchase
[size=small][size=small]ONE BATTERY LEAKED ACID AT TOP SEALS. CALLED COMPANY THEY IMPLIED IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. UNUSABLE BATTERY. I HAD ORDERED 2. THE OTHER ONE WORKED FINE.[/size][/size]