MPPT and Setting Them Up.
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Gunny said:
Hi Rob, just FYI on the point of origin claims they can make....
Be skeptical of the "Made in USA" claim on any and everything using electronic chips on a board.
There are few if any electronic components actually made in the USA. The environmental cost is just too high.
It should be taken to mean 'Assembled in USA from foreign components'...often the boards come in from a vendor somewhere in Asia, China, Taiwan, Malaysia, Mexico, wherever, and the plastic case is injection molded in say, Dallas, and all the parts are received in bulk containers in say, Tucson, then assembled by non-English speakers there....then a crew of a dozen or so workers put them in bags and boxes, or staple a blister pack around them, the finished products are shipped to a generic warehouse in say, Kansas City, and an Amazon fulfillment center in Denver, and voila...made in USA since there were several steps that took place in the USA.
But, for the vendors these days, it's more of a marketing tool than an actual point of manufacture.
This isnt to say the product is better or worse then say a controller called Myonshang XYR-459LG or whatever, but simply to take the marketing statement with a grain of salt. Hey, we Americans will prefer something called 'The Kid' and they know it.
Sorry, I missed the editing deadline, I wanted to add that Intel is an exception, possibly others, to the chips that ARE made here, but even the fabrication of those processor and memory chips is only possible with the use of lots of foreign sourced raw materials.
Thanks Brian, I know many parts are farmed out to the lowest bidder. China or one of the poorer Asian Countries (Vietnam,Laos etc.) ....
Nothing is ever as it seems.
I haven't bought any controller yet, Morningstar is still in the mix.
Thanks again, Rob
Nothing is ever as it seems.
I haven't bought any controller yet, Morningstar is still in the mix.
Thanks again, Rob
jimindenver
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I haven't been posted here because I have no hands on experience with the controller or the batteries. I also dislike regurgitating things I have read on the internet when I know there are those that have used them. Morningstar I know at least.
I believe you can research the origin of most any product. I agree with buying American but hate to see it used for advertising. Anymore we live in a global market and you have to pick the best balance of quality, features and price. I nearly went with a Outback 80 just for the Wizbang, I went with the Morningstar because it was smaller and didn't have a fan.
I believe you can research the origin of most any product. I agree with buying American but hate to see it used for advertising. Anymore we live in a global market and you have to pick the best balance of quality, features and price. I nearly went with a Outback 80 just for the Wizbang, I went with the Morningstar because it was smaller and didn't have a fan.
The Morningstar is more workable if I can get more than one panel up there or can figure out how to mount two panels. Not a huge difference in price and by the time all the dust settles, what difference does a hundred or two make?
I've found a couple of poly panels rated at 260 watts for about 200 if I remember correctly. The search gives me something to do and I actually am learning a smidgen about this wizardry.
Rob
I've found a couple of poly panels rated at 260 watts for about 200 if I remember correctly. The search gives me something to do and I actually am learning a smidgen about this wizardry.
Rob
jonyjoe303
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What size/voltage panels are you getting? The kid are rated at 150 volt/30 amp thats for multiple large panels. If you will only get one large panel all you need is a 20 amp mppt controller.
In my case I have been using an ecoworthy 20 amp/45 volt max mppt (about 100 dollars) on my 240 watt sharp mono panel (36 volt) for a chinese made mppt its going on 4 years working nonstop 7 days a week. A 240 watt panel maxes out at 17 amps when the sun hits it just right.
For 100 watt panels (usually under 25 volts panels, you dont need mppt. Unless you connect 2 or more low voltage panels together in series. Mppt needs high voltage panels to see any boost to the amps. You can use on low voltage panel but you won't get a increase in amps.
As far as battery voltage, rule of thumb for solar is 14.4 volts for bulk/absorb (both are the same) and float is 13.7 volts. This applies to all lead acid except gel. That being said, with solar there is not enough hours in a day to fully charge your batteries. The controller will always stop absorb charging early and switch to float early. My 102 amp hour kinetik agm I had the absorb set to 14.4 and the float to 14.3 volts (the highest the float could be set). I ran that voltage for about 3 years with no problem. Even at 14.3 volts floating the battery wont get overcharged, even with the sun overhead it will sit at 1 to 2 amps. With solar the biggest problem is not overcharging your battery but undercharging the battery. I actually charged my 17 amp hour jump pack connected to the mppt/240 watt panel and it didnt get overcharge or damaged.
The ecoworthy is a good "true" mppt for one large panel, it allows you to adjust the voltage to your batteries, and it has a LCD screen that shows you the voltage and also the amps going into your battery. Recently I shifted to lithium batteries, and I've been using the ecoworthy to charge my 94 ah 11.1 volt lithium for the past year. With lithium you actually get to see the full performance mppt is capable of. With agm It usually charged at 12 amps, with lithium I see 15 amps. It still going strong.
In my case I have been using an ecoworthy 20 amp/45 volt max mppt (about 100 dollars) on my 240 watt sharp mono panel (36 volt) for a chinese made mppt its going on 4 years working nonstop 7 days a week. A 240 watt panel maxes out at 17 amps when the sun hits it just right.
For 100 watt panels (usually under 25 volts panels, you dont need mppt. Unless you connect 2 or more low voltage panels together in series. Mppt needs high voltage panels to see any boost to the amps. You can use on low voltage panel but you won't get a increase in amps.
As far as battery voltage, rule of thumb for solar is 14.4 volts for bulk/absorb (both are the same) and float is 13.7 volts. This applies to all lead acid except gel. That being said, with solar there is not enough hours in a day to fully charge your batteries. The controller will always stop absorb charging early and switch to float early. My 102 amp hour kinetik agm I had the absorb set to 14.4 and the float to 14.3 volts (the highest the float could be set). I ran that voltage for about 3 years with no problem. Even at 14.3 volts floating the battery wont get overcharged, even with the sun overhead it will sit at 1 to 2 amps. With solar the biggest problem is not overcharging your battery but undercharging the battery. I actually charged my 17 amp hour jump pack connected to the mppt/240 watt panel and it didnt get overcharge or damaged.
The ecoworthy is a good "true" mppt for one large panel, it allows you to adjust the voltage to your batteries, and it has a LCD screen that shows you the voltage and also the amps going into your battery. Recently I shifted to lithium batteries, and I've been using the ecoworthy to charge my 94 ah 11.1 volt lithium for the past year. With lithium you actually get to see the full performance mppt is capable of. With agm It usually charged at 12 amps, with lithium I see 15 amps. It still going strong.
Gunny said:
Yeah sometimes the USA plant does have an assembly line that actually wave solders the chips and other SMT components into the boards, who knows...
I have had 3 different MorningStar controllers over a span of 15 years or so with NO failures.
No affiliation....just a solar kinda guy.
I am not even a novice with this solar stuff, JiminDenver and some of the other people on here who are experts at this have been guiding me, or at least trying.
I don't need anything fancy, all I have is two Golf Cart batteries and will have a generator. I have a small 18' trailer and no need for anything big and expensive.
Being retired and my trailer in the shop gives me plenty of free time to look at youtube videos and get more confused. I'm just looking for the most bang for the buck and the buck is limited.
Thanks, Rob
I don't need anything fancy, all I have is two Golf Cart batteries and will have a generator. I have a small 18' trailer and no need for anything big and expensive.
Being retired and my trailer in the shop gives me plenty of free time to look at youtube videos and get more confused. I'm just looking for the most bang for the buck and the buck is limited.
Thanks, Rob
If you are a beginner, its only an 18ft trailer, your electrical needs are modest, you have a backup genset, AND the budget is limited,
Man...I would think you are 'over-thinking' all of this.
Buy a good quality 100-150 watt panel, screw or glue it to the roof, install a basic 20 amp PWM controller, and hook it all up to the two batteries you have.
The Morningstar Sunsaver series are dirt reliable and super simple. There is a jumper for selecting the battery type. But thats it. Nearly plug and play.
Flooded golf cart batteries are very forgiving. Its very easy to get bogged down in technical information, and there is a lot of that here, but most guys assume when you mention an MPPT controller that you want the best, latest, most efficient, whiz-bang technology.
The truth is that PWM is fine for modest systems especially on a budget. The PWM modules are very simple, very reliable, and priced right since they are not the latest and greatest. They also will tolerate a vast array of user and environmental errors.
If later on, you want to up the ante, a new MPPT controller will drop right in where the old controller was. Easy-Peasy.
Man...I would think you are 'over-thinking' all of this.
Buy a good quality 100-150 watt panel, screw or glue it to the roof, install a basic 20 amp PWM controller, and hook it all up to the two batteries you have.
The Morningstar Sunsaver series are dirt reliable and super simple. There is a jumper for selecting the battery type. But thats it. Nearly plug and play.
Flooded golf cart batteries are very forgiving. Its very easy to get bogged down in technical information, and there is a lot of that here, but most guys assume when you mention an MPPT controller that you want the best, latest, most efficient, whiz-bang technology.
The truth is that PWM is fine for modest systems especially on a budget. The PWM modules are very simple, very reliable, and priced right since they are not the latest and greatest. They also will tolerate a vast array of user and environmental errors.
If later on, you want to up the ante, a new MPPT controller will drop right in where the old controller was. Easy-Peasy.
I am trying to avoid running my generator more than needed for my health's sake ( My body doesn't do heat well). My thoughts, and this is where I usually get in trouble) was to get a high output panel or panels so the batteries can get a full charge.
I've got a month or so to figure out how to approach this. I thank you for your input.
Are you in the Dallas area?
Rob
I've got a month or so to figure out how to approach this. I thank you for your input.
Are you in the Dallas area?
Rob
Well, what are you planning to run?
A few LEDs and a radio is one thing, but if you need to power an induction cooker, a 40 inch flat panel TV, a sleep apnea machine, a humidifier, 2 laptops, a fridge, a crockpot, an icemaker, an AC unit, and recharge your drone's flight batteries then forget what I said, you need the best system that $2500 will buy....
And I'm near Lubbock...you?
A few LEDs and a radio is one thing, but if you need to power an induction cooker, a 40 inch flat panel TV, a sleep apnea machine, a humidifier, 2 laptops, a fridge, a crockpot, an icemaker, an AC unit, and recharge your drone's flight batteries then forget what I said, you need the best system that $2500 will buy....
And I'm near Lubbock...you?
Ft Worth. No, not nearly all that, the biggest thing would be a satellite system for the days my meds keep me inside. Be able to recharge the normal things like a phone, laptop etc.
Nothing major. Also to keep the batteries charged at or near full charge. I am lead to believe if not charged correctly the batteries will fail.
I only paid $2500.00 for the trailer so it's not getting near that on the roof. Just enough to not ruin the batteries with not charging them. I sort of have $750.00 as a limit give or take a bit. May be awhile anyway, trailer is being repaired from a bit of stunt-driving I did shortly after I bought it.
Rob
Nothing major. Also to keep the batteries charged at or near full charge. I am lead to believe if not charged correctly the batteries will fail.
I only paid $2500.00 for the trailer so it's not getting near that on the roof. Just enough to not ruin the batteries with not charging them. I sort of have $750.00 as a limit give or take a bit. May be awhile anyway, trailer is being repaired from a bit of stunt-driving I did shortly after I bought it.
Rob
Ok...well now we have some idea of what you need.
Any of the solar controllers will have at least an indicator of charge status, and the fancy ones tell you how much you are gaining or losing, etc.
So, you will have a 'solar budget' you will need to adjust to.
Whatever system you have, in that price range, will allow you to have lots of power on sunny days, and not so much after a few overcast days.
Likewise, running the TV and satellite box for 10 hours every night between those overcast days, and you will be draining the system.
Just guessing, with a 200 watt panel, your two GC batteries, and average sun in the summer, I should think you would have plenty of reserve for almost all day TV watching, and/or 2 or 3 hours every night of TV watching, but this is JUST a guess. It will depend on sunlight, weather, time of year, temperature, how much your TV and receiver pull, and the angle of the panel and if its portable and you can follow the sun, or roof mounted and flat.
If you saw that the charge controller was not happy, you would need to reduce the TV watching and you know, laptop charging, that sort of thing, to a minimum.
Also, is this gonna be full time? Boondocking? Or weekend use only when the weather is nice?
Any of the solar controllers will have at least an indicator of charge status, and the fancy ones tell you how much you are gaining or losing, etc.
So, you will have a 'solar budget' you will need to adjust to.
Whatever system you have, in that price range, will allow you to have lots of power on sunny days, and not so much after a few overcast days.
Likewise, running the TV and satellite box for 10 hours every night between those overcast days, and you will be draining the system.
Just guessing, with a 200 watt panel, your two GC batteries, and average sun in the summer, I should think you would have plenty of reserve for almost all day TV watching, and/or 2 or 3 hours every night of TV watching, but this is JUST a guess. It will depend on sunlight, weather, time of year, temperature, how much your TV and receiver pull, and the angle of the panel and if its portable and you can follow the sun, or roof mounted and flat.
If you saw that the charge controller was not happy, you would need to reduce the TV watching and you know, laptop charging, that sort of thing, to a minimum.
Also, is this gonna be full time? Boondocking? Or weekend use only when the weather is nice?
Just to clarify.Gunny said:
All batteries will eventually fail, they are a consumable just like oil changes or tires.
If you get cheapest possible, but true deep cycle units, say they're rated for 800 cycles under lab conditions, so maybe 2 years of daily use in the real world under ideal conditions.
Which wrt charging means 100% Full, not "near". And ideally every cycle, closer to that the better, just once a week isn't very good, but yes better than never.
Another factor is not drawing too deep, treat 50% as "empty". A bigger bank gets drawn down less given the same consumption, say only 20% may yield 1200 cycles.
So, to the extent you aren't able to do this, the batteries will just "die" earlier, maybe in one year or less. Do "pretty well", maybe you only lose a few months.
And note "dead" is defined as only holding 80% of the rated AH. Many people keep using them longer. Once they start going down downhill the deterioration accelerates.
How long I stay out is sort of up in the air. Nothing like a nice definitive answer right? I am tied to the VA for my medications and occasional exams to renew my prescriptions.
Mostly boondocking, weather plays no part in it. Well, tornadoes do but they are the exception. There are a lot of folks from this forum who meet up and I would enjoy that. I've met 5 or 6 folks from this group and have not been disappointed, to a man (and woman) they are great, helpful people.
Many times the TV is not on, silence is fine with me most of the time. But days my meds play their games it's nice to have that option.
I'll know more when I get the full estimate on all the little things I'm getting done on the trailer.
Rob
Mostly boondocking, weather plays no part in it. Well, tornadoes do but they are the exception. There are a lot of folks from this forum who meet up and I would enjoy that. I've met 5 or 6 folks from this group and have not been disappointed, to a man (and woman) they are great, helpful people.
Many times the TV is not on, silence is fine with me most of the time. But days my meds play their games it's nice to have that option.
I'll know more when I get the full estimate on all the little things I'm getting done on the trailer.
Rob
rvpopeye
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Gunny
Stunt driving , good one
"Wheeeeeeeeewwwwwwww , I meant to do that !"
If you can put 200 w that will work as long as you adjust your usage so the batts will charge during a typical day.
400w would make it more likely you would get full charge.
Again , adjust usage to what you find the panel(s) will replace.
I use just a 75 w panel and it has me back to full chg by 10am or so , I just don't use much .
My last pair of 6 v GCs lasted 5 years till I decided to replace them.
Stunt driving , good one
"Wheeeeeeeeewwwwwwww , I meant to do that !"
If you can put 200 w that will work as long as you adjust your usage so the batts will charge during a typical day.
400w would make it more likely you would get full charge.
Again , adjust usage to what you find the panel(s) will replace.
I use just a 75 w panel and it has me back to full chg by 10am or so , I just don't use much .
My last pair of 6 v GCs lasted 5 years till I decided to replace them.
Stunt driving was the easiest way to explain the damage done to trailer. Sounds better than did a 360 in the middle of I-10 in sunny California. Actually a 180, I finished the rest when I got my truck restarted.
I'll get all this figured out, I've got good people helping out.
Thanks Popeye
Rob
I'll get all this figured out, I've got good people helping out.
Thanks Popeye
Rob
jimindenver
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jonyjoe303 said:
I have been using and recommending the Eco-Worthy 20a MPPT controller since 2012, in fact I ordered another one today to use on the 160w portable I recently ordered. The newer models have a 50v Voc limit so a bit more head room for using 12v panels in series.
rvpopeye
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I wasn't picking on ya Gunny!
I just got a mental image of those guys doing the stunt derby at the local state fair . Doing something crazy cool and jumping out taking a bow . When you said that.
I'm sure you'll not be impressing us with any more of that stuff any time soon.
Some day , I want to solar up like Jim so I can be a "solar ranger" coming to the rescue of folks with low batteries with my rolling charge station.... bet that felt good huh Jim ?
I just got a mental image of those guys doing the stunt derby at the local state fair . Doing something crazy cool and jumping out taking a bow
. When you said that.I'm sure you'll not be impressing us with any more of that stuff any time soon.
Some day , I want to solar up like Jim so I can be a "solar ranger" coming to the rescue of folks with low batteries with my rolling charge station....
bet that felt good huh Jim ?Similar threads
