Starting A Battery Company

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ldsreliance

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I've reached out to the board ownership to try to make sure it is okay to discuss commercial ventures and did not get any response so hopefully this is ok.

I've been selling MillerTech LiFePO4 deep cycle batteries for 4 years and recently seen a huge uptick in interest and orders.  Being a dealer is fine but anyone who has some business experience knows that margins are slim and you have no control over quality and quantity.  So I have been working for about a year on finding a Chinese supplier to make some high quality batteries for me that I can import.  I narrowed the list down to a few possible suppliers and came up with a spec sheet for what I wanted.  After negotiating with one supplier, I ordered and have received a sample battery for testing.

The reason I am posting this is to solicit feedback.  Typically, in the past, I have sold batteries to people who use them for recreation, emergency preparedness, or other occasional use.  I have installed batteries in RV's and trailers but not as many, percentage-wise.  You guys literally live on what power you can produce and store in your RV's, vans, or trailers.  So I want to get your opinions and feedback as another potential market for these new batteries.

If anyone is interested, I am producing a video blog on my Youtube channel that explains further:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbKwoGlXEWaqvfEM3rkN0H2g0nJFiIT-y

Anyways, the battery I am going to bring to market (the first size will be 12V 100Ah) will be on the more premium side but not the most expensive on the market.  Pricing is complicated since my battery will have features that many competitors don't, so there is extra value there that is worth more cost, but I still don't want to be the most expensive option.  So, even though my battery will be superior to these comparisons, I want to keep it below BattleBorn ($900) and above MillerTech ($799).

Currently, the specs and features are the following:

- 100A continuous discharge
- 300A max discharge for 3-4 seconds
- > 2,500 cycles @ 100% DoD
- Internal heater
- Bluetooth/smartphone app
- Comm ports (RS232/RS485)
- Low temperature charging protection as well as the normal BMS protections like short circuit protection
- User serviceable case (can be opened with screws on top)
- 4S and/or 4P configurations possible with multiple batteries

Having said all of that, I'm currently testing this sample battery and making sure it is what they say it is.  But does this sound like a battery that your community would be interested in at all?  What questions, concerns, or suggestions do you have?  Any feedback is appreciated.
 
Attached is a picture of the sample battery, if anyone cares.
 

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I have been interested in lifepo4 as many have. Quality is obviously what you want but I think the bulk of the tire kickers in the community are looking at cost first, quality second.

Obviously I wouldn't trust a lifepo4 that's the same spec AND cost as a lead acid BUT even $500 for a battery is a HUGE ask for me.

Just my $0.02
 
I wish you luck. Obviously that chemistry is the new 'best' When I bought my Battleborn's I bought the warranty. I knew that I overpaid and in the near future the pricing will come down but it is what it is. I bought them on sale for a little over 850 ea a couple years ago from one of their dealers.

So, warranty, warranty, warranty and that's gonna be a rough sell for a startup. (In my eyes)

If you can pull everything together I don't doubt you'll be successful
 
Let me ask you this, do you think that an extended warranty would be worth considering? Say, for example, that I was planning on a 5 year warranty (which is industry standard) and offered another 5 years for an additional $99. Let's say that the features and performance exceed the BattleBorn and the cost with the extended warranty is roughly the same for the two.

Yes, it is rough for a startup. Honestly, a 10 year warranty for any of these companies is silly because they haven't been in business for 10 years and no one knows if they will be in business that long (BattleBorn does look like they will be around).

My conundrum is... do I force every customer to pay for the added cost of me bearing the liability for a 10 year warranty or do I offer it as an add-on for those who do want it and let the rest of the people enjoy a lower price?
 
I know the Owner of LifeBlue batteries and also had been in talks with a Chinese manufacture since last year. Shipping cost have affected both drastically. An example is not long ago a 40 ft container cost just over a grand to ship. Then it went to 6 grand after the Suez canal incident and now they wont even quote a price until the time the product is ready to ship because shipping cost are going up so fast.

In my case I decided that there was too much lower cost competition already available to make the expense and hassle of importing the batteries feasible. Right now you can get a 200 ah battery delivered quickly for $900. LifeBlue dropped their prices to $1500 for a 200 ah and I am told over the summer that Battleborn will drop theirs too. My cost for a 200 ah battery in a footprint only a little larger than a 6 volt with bluetooth and self heating with a 5 year total replacement warranty is almost $700 before shipping. It may be as nice of a battery as the LifeBlue I designed it around but it will still need to compete with the no name because people only see dollar signs, not quality, features and warranty.
 
jimindenver said:
 because people only see dollar signs, not quality, features and warranty.
This is true. It might be wise for an entrepreneur that actually HAD the product in hand to send an example to someone like Will Prowse that's gonna peel it like a banana for views on YouTube. 

But I'd make sure I had distribution etc all lined up before the video comes out.
 
jimindenver said:
I know the Owner of LifeBlue batteries and also had been in talks with a Chinese manufacture since last year. Shipping cost have affected both drastically. An example is not long ago a 40 ft container cost just over a grand to ship. Then it went to 6 grand after the Suez canal incident and now they wont even quote a price until the time the product is ready to ship because shipping cost are going up so fast.

In my case I decided that there was too much lower cost competition already available to make the expense and hassle of importing the batteries feasible. Right now you can get a 200 ah battery delivered quickly for $900. LifeBlue dropped their prices to $1500 for a 200 ah and I am told over the summer that Battleborn will drop theirs too. My cost for a 200 ah battery in a footprint only a little larger than a 6 volt with bluetooth and self heating with a 5 year total replacement warranty is almost $700 before shipping. It may be as nice of a battery as the LifeBlue I designed it around but it will still need to compete with the no name because people only see dollar signs, not quality, features and warranty.

I agree.  That is why I am not interested in competing based on price.  BattleBorn isn't interested in competing on price, either.  They have the "Assembled in USA" thing and a 10 year warranty that they compete with as their advantage.  So my advantage would be similar to LifeBlue where it would be features that are not commonly available on these lower cost batteries.

Yes, you can get great prices on good batteries if you are willing to order samples from Chinese suppliers or find hungry manufacturers on Alibaba that are willing to sell 1 or 2 at a time.  But 99% of the buying market aren't willing to do that, so you are the exception, although I do highly value the input :)
 
XERTYX said:
This is true. It might be wise for an entrepreneur that actually HAD the product in hand to send an example to someone like Will Prowse that's gonna peel it like a banana for views on YouTube. 

But I'd make sure I had distribution etc all lined up before the video comes out.

That is the challenge.  David Poz did that review on the Gryll batteries and now they are out of stock and their phone is ringing off the hook.  I will probably wait a while until the trade situation clears up a bit before I risk an explosion like that.
 
I certainly would not mind having a lifepo4 Battery, But my goodness, certainly can't afford even one.. I am sure the benefits out weight what even an AGM battery has.. it is just simply a cost thing for me..
 
2 suggestions

1. see if you can tie in to a dealer network that would do installs. Test in quartzite AZ. Then the price becomes irrelevant in the total mix.
2. see if it's possible to get a big insurance company to underwrite the extended warranty (like cars). You're probably small potatoes to them. But if accomplished you can ride on their rep.
 
jimindenver said:
It may be as nice of a battery as the LifeBlue I designed it around but it will still need to compete with the no name because people only see dollar signs, not quality, features and warranty.

Surprisingly, this has not been my experience at all.  I sell MillerTech batteries, which are very popular in the Amish country and with bass fisherman.  They have two lines of batteries... a "premium" line that uses Grade A cells and an "economy" line that uses Grade B cells.  The Grade A batteries sell for about 20-25% more and have 2 extra years of warranty.  Everything else, including performance, is exactly the same.  Despite the extra cost, I sell 2x more premium batteries than economy.
 
ldsreliance said:
Let me ask you this, do you think that an extended warranty would be worth considering?  Say, for example, that I was planning on a 5 year warranty (which is industry standard) and offered another 5 years for an additional $99.  Let's say that the features and performance exceed the BattleBorn and the cost with the extended warranty is roughly the same for the two.
That's not the worse idea I've ever heard. Thing is, the technology is so new I don't think anyone really knows how long they're going to last in a real life mobile application. It was a crap shoot and I had the money at the time

Edited to add: Marketing, marketing, marketing. :)
 
XERTYX said:
This is true. It might be wise for an entrepreneur that actually HAD the product in hand to send an example to someone like Will Prowse that's gonna peel it like a banana for views on YouTube. 

But I'd make sure I had distribution etc all lined up before the video comes out.
I'll do a tear down on my own channel if I am buying the battery. Although not currently active as a youtuber, I believe that people need to provide for their own content and generally Will does.
 
jimindenver said:
I'll do a tear down on my own channel if I am buying the battery. Although not currently active as a youtuber, I believe that people need to provide for their own content and generally Will does.
Will doesn't do anything I disagree with.

He DOES peel batteries like bananas. 

Those banana peels generate views.

The videos generate knowledge. 

I dont begrudge him. But he's getting rich.

Why is he rich?! Cuz his platform is informative AND entertaining.

If I had ONE ASK of your YouTube channel it would be for more solar ovens brother... OR more about your wind turbine data....

I follow your channel.

I do not begrudge you either. But I'm interested in your next post.
 
Will is Okay by me. I have followed him longer than most. I may not agree with everything he does but that's what makes the world go round. He works hard just as I do in my service. I do think that we target a different clientele with his being DIY and mine being custom designs.

Should I ever become active on youtube again I think I'd rather teach people why you chose a system and how to use it just like I'd rather teach how to cook in solar ovens instead of selling them. Lots of people post links to products they will never use. You have to actually be out here using them long term to show how it's done.
 
tx2sturgis said:
Put two battery terminals on each side and ya got a winner!

Interesting idea.  I'll give that some thought.  It would have to be something where those side terminals could be safely covered up if not in use.  I don't know that I have seen a case like that before.
 
If anyone is curious, I just opened up the pre-order process for these new batteries on my web store:

https://store.ldsreliance.com/colle...-12v-100ah-lifepo4-premium-deep-cycle-battery

I've put out 5 video blogs so far going through the process with some info on initial testing, final specs, final pricing, quality, etc:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLbKwoGlXEWaqvfEM3rkN0H2g0nJFiIT-y

I have gotten a few comments on the videos from members of this forum so just thought I would share. The first 20 batteries will be $675 each with free shipping, which is an unbelievable value for what you get. In exchange, I just want some feedback and impartial reviews.
 
If anyone knows lives in DFW or knows a member of this forum or a friend that has a van or RV or trailer that might be interested in working with me on an install of these batteries and an in-depth video review, please let me know. I will make it worth their time!
 
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