MPPT and Setting Them Up.

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Gunny

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In between writing lovesick letters about yesteryear I watched many videos about setting up MPPT's. In particular I watched several from MidNite Solar about The Kid MPPT.

Made in the USA struck me, so I watched about 5 long videos showing how to set parameters on the controller. They want specs on the batteries that I can't locate. I was just looking out of curiosity at first, then looking earnest. I'm sure buried somewhere there is the information, but not where I could find it.

Where would a very detailed spec sheet be on a Duracell 6 volt? It's not on Duracells site, or at least I couldn't find it. I know Deka makes them but would the specs be the same?

I suppose a call to Duracell would guide me. 




Rob
 
All you have to do is ask any Battery Outfiters.  

They know things...  (I hope)
 
Best bet IMO is Deka, assuming yo already tried CS of the place where you purchased.

Try asking specific Q's here
 
The Kid has worked well for us for 3 yrs. Can't help on Duracell info as ours are Trojan. I can say Midnite Solar customer service seems to be knowledgable, at least enough to guide this novice.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
 
I can't really find any recommended absorption voltages from east penn deka 

I would set Absorption voltage  to 14.4 to 14.6v for 2 hours and then check specific gravity.

If it is no where near 1.275 then try 3 hours

If still not getting to 1.275 bump upto 14.8v and try 2 hours, then three

There might be an amperage threshold which triggers float voltage.  Generally for flooded batteries this is around 2 to 3% of the capacity of 20 hour rate.

How deep the discharge cycles are ultimately will define how high an absorption voltage needs to be set and how long the battery must remain up there.  Any manufacturer recommendations are basically starting points.  Those seeking ideal need to use the hydrometer and see if ABSv is high enough and held long enough in THEIR usage pattern, and if the pattern changes drastically then so 'should' the recharge regimen

This will change with temperature, and as they age.

If 1.275 is reached easily after 2 hours absorption, then back off the voltage a smidge and the duration or the amperage threshold.  Holding absorption voltgae longer than needed is overcharging, which will use more water and  beat up the positive plates somewhat.

There is no need to absolutely strignently harp on exact voltages, A little more or a litlle less electrical pressure, and how long it is held is not going to Kill a Lead acid battery instantly if off a bit.

If the MPPT charge controller has a battery temperature sensor, employ it, as that will have a bigger effect on longevity than 0.15 volts here or there, especially when 20 degrees hotter or 40 degrees cooler than 77F.
 
And there it is.

I'm glad SW is able to remember all the details of what he has researched over the years,,,,Me ? Not so much !
(Thatsk embarasskin')
 
He and JiminDenver and GotSmart have forgotten more than I will ever know. If they charged consulting fees they would be rich.


Rob
 
Gunny said:
He and JiminDenver and GotSmart have forgotten more than I will ever know. If they charged consulting fees they would be rich.


Rob

Hey Jim, I did not know that was an option here!   ;)
 
Just for grins I called Duracell and talked to their Tech Dept., I told them the information the MPPT was asking for and asked where I would find it.. He looked and came back on and told me he was going to transfer me to Batteries Plus Tech site. I told the representative what the MPPT was asking for and he said he could get the information from the vendor.

Within 10 minutes I had a spec sheet emailed to me with every question answered and an invitation to call back if needed.

Good to do business with someone like that.

Rob
 
Please post a nice clear photo or scan if you can.

Or google for a "unique phrase in quotes" and if you find a PDF or something post a link?

TIA
 
Hello Robert,
Please see the attachment for the sheet you requested for the SLIGC110. I know the sheet can be difficult to read so an East Penn rep gave this information as well:

FLOAT: 6.75V

ABSORBED: 7.275V

BULK: 7.425V

EQUALIZE: 7.875V
I will post the entire sheet after I scan it.

Rob
 
Hello Robert,
Please see the attachment for the sheet you requested for the SLIGC110. I know the sheet can be difficult to read so an East Penn rep gave this information as well:
 
FLOAT: 6.75V
 
ABSORBED: 7.275V
 
BULK: 7.425V
 
EQUALIZE: 7.875V



View attachment EPM Flooded Battery Charging (1).pdf

hope this works

Rob


 
 

Attachments

  • EPM Flooded Battery Charging (1).pdf
    22.9 KB
Thanks Rob. Also, EPM customer service direct (888) 844-7704
 
Double those voltages for the pair of batteries in series.
 
Bulk voltage is a bit of a misnomer as during bulk charging, voltage can start as low as 10.5v if the battery was drained that low. During bulk it climbs to the max regular voltage and they are saying that, and calling it bulk, is 14.85v.

Bulk charging also is also kind of misnamed when one is using solar, as many manufacturer recommedendations are not for solar, but for a plug in charging source. Say this plug in charging source is capable of 20 amps, in 'Bulk, it will apply 20 amps until battery voltage rises to the max, however long this takes. But with solar, the amperage slowly climbs to solar noon. Once absorption voltage is reached then less and less amperage is required to maintain that voltage in this constant voltage phase.

After 14.85v is reached with a max amperage of 30 per 100 Ah of battery capacity, then they have absorption voltage at 14.55v, then once absorption complete, float at 13.5v

Interesting recommendation, thanks for posting their reply, dated in '09.

Absorption being lower than Bulk will slow charging somewhat, and likely use less water, offgass slightly less.

14.85v as a termination point of the bulk/constant current phase is 0.03 higher than trojan's recommendation, but trojan wants battery to be held there, not dropped to 14.55v once it has been attained.

The thing to remember is that any voltage above the natural resting voltage of a fully charged battery~12.8v, is going to charge the battery. The higher the absorption voltage at the battery terminals, the more electrical pressure and the faster the charging will be.

But 1 amp is going to take a LOT longer than 10 amps in getting a depleted battery to absorption voltage.

With solar the amperage is limited by the sun and its angle in relation to the panels and amount of atmosphere it has to travel through. basically when the sun can make the most, at solar noon, the batteries should really be about to or already at absorption voltage, or in this case, 'bulk' voltage.

The higher the amperage, the faster the voltage will climb to bulk/absorption voltage
The lesser the depth of discharge the faster the voltage will climb to B/A voltage
The Older and more sulfated the battery is the faster the voltage will climb to B/A voltage, but then it must remina up at that voltage for longer to fully charge.

All of the voltage recomendations are for a battery temperature of 77F. Automatic temperature compensation is not a feature on many systems that achieve good to very good, perhaps excellent battery life, so the ideal charge voltage recommendations are just guidelines. The length at which absorption voltage is held is more important than the exact absorption voltage held. If there is not enough time for the solar to do the job, then consider boosting absorption voltage, as it is more important to at least get the batteries full, than is is to overvoltage them slightly.

One thing not to do is blow past the 14.85 volts. Get them there and hold them there until they are 'full' If a hydrometer reveals they are not full after several hours at ABSV, or the cells vary more than 0.015, then an Equalization charge is called for.

EP says here 15.75v for EQ voltages, Trojan and Rolls surrette recommend 16.2v.

On my previous flooded battery, the hydrometer and many tests revealed it took 45 minutes at 16v what took nearly 4 hours at 15.5v.

The hydrometer reveals all, if One cares to use it, adjust settings and test specific gravity again.
But No one HAS to do this.

How many cycles the battery lasts, whether that number is acceptable to the owner, is subjective.

Manufacturer recommendations are good starting points, but ultimately the depth of discharge, the amount of solar available, along with other charging sources, really determine how high and how long to hold absorption voltage, so any blanket recommendation by a manufacturer, is just an attempt to get the dart somewhere in the middle of the dartboard, as they do not know the Depth of discharge nor the amount of charging current available to the end user.

But if they said this outright, that perfection requires the User to suit up and do hydrometer readings each subsequent recharge with all the variables accounted for, reconrded, and compared to arrive at perfect voltaeg and duration at that specific depth of discharge and temperature, then the masses would then decide to buy the competitor's product which did not say this was a requirement.

Getting to 100% is truly important, but doing it each and every single recharge is asking a lot. Those with light usage patterns and or a lot of solar wattage to their capacity ration can do so easily. Those who planned on just enough will only be able to get there on a good sunny day, perhaps with a lesser overnight usage the night before.

Use the hydrometer, or Simply get a huge solar wattage to capacity ratio and program the manufacturer recommendations.
 
I noticed it was dated 09, I suppose it holds true today...I hope. I think I make this harder than it should be by overthinking it. But it seems like with each answer comes a question.

I've got about $200.00 invested in batteries, nothing fancy or overly expensive but I still don't want to fry them right out of the gate. My batteries are easy to get to so once I learn how to read a hydrometer I can do so. Then my questions arise , does the new charger being installed automatically change from a high output to a float charge or is this something I need to do manually?

I haven't even bought the controller yet, I've just been browsing and liked the Kid because it's made in the USA. Nor have I bought a panel or panels yet, I'm wauting to see how much space I have and I'm not bothering the repair guy again.

Most of this type of stuff I can learn by doing, if I fry something it's on me and I won't whine (too much) about it. Its not life or death.

I've looked a poly panels, mono panels until I just say eff it and hope for the best.

I do appreciate the time you, Sternwake and JiminDenver and GetSmart put into your answers. The beer would be on me if I were close enough to buy a round.

Rob
 
Ron
With the Kid cc and the Whiz Bang Jr accessory, you can utilize the "end amps" feature to go to float rather than time based absorb cycle. Theoretically you would achieve an optimal charge every time, I believe.
My apologies if someone already mentioned this.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
 
Any decent charger will transition to Float automatically, most just tend to do it too early.

Yes WhizBang Jr will give you solid battery monitor as well as optimal treatment of your (also future better) batteries.

Similarly Bogart Trimetric + SC-2030, PWM not MPPT.

But most would think such gear overkill for a small setup.
 
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